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#21
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hey i thought the dog thing was a different thread?
speaking of dogs: my daughter lives with me 1/2 time and is hell bent on getting a dog (13 yo) found/ keep finding post-its with words related to dogs on them in the cupboards, on the windows, in the refrig. etc. you seem to have some knowledge of dogs so here goes: any idea what kind of dog i can get that can feed itself, go for a walk, and be left in charge of the office for say a week at a time? one that is protective of place and can do something about it would help keep in mind, it needs to be an urban kind of dog (whatever that means) space ain't an issue--i live/work in a loft--figure it can get its exercise by running the length of this place if it likes the water and goes sailing all the better. how about a dog rental program for a month at a time? any ideas? gf. "katysails" wrote in message ... cannot understand why they would choose to approach so closely.. Same reason why a dog licks its' butt...because they can.... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 7/22/2004 |
#22
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Don't get a dog if you can't take proper care of it.
Stop spoiling your kid. Running around an apartment is not proper exersize. SV "gonefishiing" wrote in message ... hey i thought the dog thing was a different thread? speaking of dogs: my daughter lives with me 1/2 time and is hell bent on getting a dog (13 yo) found/ keep finding post-its with words related to dogs on them in the cupboards, on the windows, in the refrig. etc. you seem to have some knowledge of dogs so here goes: any idea what kind of dog i can get that can feed itself, go for a walk, and be left in charge of the office for say a week at a time? one that is protective of place and can do something about it would help keep in mind, it needs to be an urban kind of dog (whatever that means) space ain't an issue--i live/work in a loft--figure it can get its exercise by running the length of this place if it likes the water and goes sailing all the better. how about a dog rental program for a month at a time? any ideas? gf. "katysails" wrote in message ... cannot understand why they would choose to approach so closely.. Same reason why a dog licks its' butt...because they can.... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 7/22/2004 |
#23
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Rule of Tonnage.
SV rambled on incessantly... Granted, in the L.I.S. area to which you refer, some sailers behave otherwise and, apparently especially on Wed. or Thurs. racing nights, occasonally challenges the tug/barge or freigher (with resulting whistle-blowing and frustrated commercial captains screaming on the VHF). But for those who want to continue to sail "a lot" at night (and, for that matter, during the day) in that area, the better "assumption" for you would have been your answer to the question: If both other boats do not see me (even if I believe they do see me) and if both also alter their course so that they will be headed directly for me if I don't alter my course, where in light of what I do see ought I go to avoid a collision? |
#24
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"gonefishiing" wrote in message
... hey i thought the dog thing was a different thread? speaking of dogs: my daughter lives with me 1/2 time and is hell bent on getting a dog (13 yo) found/ keep finding post-its with words related to dogs on them in the cupboards, on the windows, in the refrig. etc. you seem to have some knowledge of dogs so here goes: any idea what kind of dog i can get that can feed itself, go for a walk, and be left in charge of the office for say a week at a time? A cat. A week is a long time - we leave our cats for 3-4 days. Longer than that we have a friend or neighbor drop by just to make sure they didn't lock themselves in a closet. If we go sailing for more than about 4 days they come with us. The dog, however, can't be left unattended for more than 8 hours, and even that's a stretch. one that is protective of place and can do something about it would help keep in mind, it needs to be an urban kind of dog (whatever that means) space ain't an issue--i live/work in a loft--figure it can get its exercise by running the length of this place if it likes the water and goes sailing all the better. how about a dog rental program for a month at a time? Find a neighbor with a dog that travels and needs a dog-sitter. |
#25
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Oh, sorry, not above freighters... I was talking above just about
everything else. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... I don't suppose you have a reference for that. I know SF has a large restricted area, but I've never seen anything that gives tows status above freighters except the RAM rule. "Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ... That's not true on the SF bay. Tugs with barges have stand on. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... "Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ... Not knowing the area, I have a couple of comments. I'm not sure you were stand on, given that if there is any doubt about draft constraint. Also, a tug and a barge have status in most cases, but again, I don't know the area. The tow has no special status unless it declares itself a RAM (Restricted Ability to Maneuver) and displays the appropraite lights in addition to the tow lights.. |
#26
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Hey, umm... if the engine was started then you're a motorboat.
You have no status at that point, certainly not above a tug/tow. I hope you were running your steaming light. Otherwise, you could be cited. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "gonefishiing" wrote in message ... agreed: for the sake of safety, i always stay away from bigger vessels and did so on this sail as well, until the tug/barge (TUB) changed course for the final time. i was certain i was ok with both vessels until the barge circled around and was pointing at me again leaving me no evasive action to take. neither vessel produced any indication of warning that i was in the way (lights / horn) agreed again: i realize i should have hailed them on the radio and asked for they're intentions long before events became close. definitely mistake no.1. Sometimes i do this, sometimes i don't. it has always been a simple assesment of whether i believe i will be out of the way. and i did believe this. monitoring channel 13 for security calls is also something that i usually do at night. this night i did not. the engine was started and idling by in case i needed it. in regards to avoiding a collision, given the speed differentials of the vessels, i don't believe the engine would have made any difference in this situation. in regards to the regs: it would have converted me to a vessel under power and i think (?) changed my status to some extent in relation to the 2 other vessels. not that my decision was based on that or that it really does not matter once fiberglass contacts steel. the point being i was making good speed in good wind. given that the tug/barge changed course twice: was he obligated to give way? or is this a "fluid" problem that needs to be constantly reassessed?--which means always stay out of his way no matter what courses he chooses? felt like a cat and mouse sort of thing. as a technical point: their seems to be a difference between an inablitiy to maneuver because of draft, in a particular direction--versus the general maneuverablity of a vessel because of length/speed/wieght. i am not sure these 2 issues are connected by the regs. as i understand it, constrained by draft is designed to prevent a vessel from running aground. in this regard there was no danger to the freighter who had plenty of room to the south, which was his general route. the tub could not turn towards the north to cross in front of me because of draft and speed issues, and he could not turn south because of the freighter, which left him pointed at me. my guess is not i or the freighter anticipated a circling tub. "Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ... Not knowing the area, I have a couple of comments. I'm not sure you were stand on, given that if there is any doubt about draft constraint. Also, a tug and a barge have status in most cases, but again, I don't know the area. Also, why not hail them and ask their intentions? Finally, while sailing does give you stand on status in many circumstances, it also limits your ability to take evasive action. Perhaps it would have been prudent to start the engine? -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "gonefishiing" wrote in message ... out for a late night sail last week, which i do a lot of. western edge of long island sound, ny on a port tack heading southwest towards the throgs neck bridge. slack tide. particulary dark night. full main and jib set 15 knots wind keeping a vigilant eye out for ships, i spot a black form against the lights of the city in front of me and realize it is a tug and barge and i also realize (in the absence of visible nav lights) his small profile means he is headed right at me and steaming. i decide to tack the boat around 180 degrees and give him some room........assuming (correctly) his course has 2 possiblities--he is going to continue eastbound in the sound or he is going to turn north towards eastchester bay to anchor his barge (partial mistake no.1?). he turns northeast towards the barge anchorage, paralleling my course and i am east of him and the barge anchorage- out of his way. towards the east i spot another ship (freighter) steaming westbound for the gate. he is north of the lane that most of the commerical ships take for the bridge. and a quick visual calculation tells me i can cross his bow without problem and also because he needs to turn behind my stern to set his course for the bridge (and soon!) (partial mistake no.2?) they are both aware that i am here-- million candle power lights illuminating sails had a way of doing that. (my light) 1: the freighter, westbound, is not turning although i have crossed his bow--only slightly and he'll end up passing beyond me, far too close and moving fast. 2: the tug/barge decides to steer a circle around the barge anchorage and end up eastbound again --off my port beam and close enough that i can see the pilot. he has slowed down significantly at this point as i am now between both vessels. (on a starboard tack) 3: they both passed "safely" at my stern, to the south of me the freigher first, the tug next. this was really too close for comfort, and i had my hands full sailing. not to negate my responsiblity, i think constrained by draft here is a relative term, if it even applies. they each had a mile of room to the south (behind me) to manuveur and cannot understand why they would choose to approach so closely, as my actions were clear, my course was appropriate and consistent and meant to give each a wide berth and for whatever it may be worth, i think everyone took the correct actions i believe i was the stand on vessel the freighter was 2nd in pecking order the tug/barge gave way what would you have done differently? gf. |
#27
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"gonefishiing" wrote in message
... hey i thought the dog thing was a different thread? speaking of dogs: my daughter lives with me 1/2 time Ummm... and is hell bent on getting a dog (13 yo) OIC |
#28
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have had dogs before so i understand what it takes to be responsible
nothing to do with "spoiling my kid"--have not decided one way or the other it's up for consideration yeah i know dogs need fresh air, grass, and trees how about bus exhaust, concrete, and fire hydrants gf. "Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... Don't get a dog if you can't take proper care of it. Stop spoiling your kid. Running around an apartment is not proper exersize. SV "gonefishiing" wrote in message ... hey i thought the dog thing was a different thread? speaking of dogs: my daughter lives with me 1/2 time and is hell bent on getting a dog (13 yo) found/ keep finding post-its with words related to dogs on them in the cupboards, on the windows, in the refrig. etc. you seem to have some knowledge of dogs so here goes: any idea what kind of dog i can get that can feed itself, go for a walk, and be left in charge of the office for say a week at a time? one that is protective of place and can do something about it would help keep in mind, it needs to be an urban kind of dog (whatever that means) space ain't an issue--i live/work in a loft--figure it can get its exercise by running the length of this place if it likes the water and goes sailing all the better. how about a dog rental program for a month at a time? any ideas? gf. "katysails" wrote in message ... cannot understand why they would choose to approach so closely.. Same reason why a dog licks its' butt...because they can.... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 7/22/2004 |
#29
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Nope. The engine has to be in gear; what if it was just be run to charge
batteries, or if it was started but not warmed up? Of course, if you had an engine but didn't use it to avoid a collision, you'd have 'splaing to do. And if you were powering you can't slip it into neutral and suddenly claim rights as a sailboat. This is one of those grey areas where you'll never get an answer from the CG. "Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ... Hey, umm... if the engine was started then you're a motorboat. You have no status at that point, certainly not above a tug/tow. I hope you were running your steaming light. Otherwise, you could be cited. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "gonefishiing" wrote in message ... agreed: for the sake of safety, i always stay away from bigger vessels and did so on this sail as well, until the tug/barge (TUB) changed course for the final time. i was certain i was ok with both vessels until the barge circled around and was pointing at me again leaving me no evasive action to take. neither vessel produced any indication of warning that i was in the way (lights / horn) agreed again: i realize i should have hailed them on the radio and asked for they're intentions long before events became close. definitely mistake no.1. Sometimes i do this, sometimes i don't. it has always been a simple assesment of whether i believe i will be out of the way. and i did believe this. monitoring channel 13 for security calls is also something that i usually do at night. this night i did not. the engine was started and idling by in case i needed it. in regards to avoiding a collision, given the speed differentials of the vessels, i don't believe the engine would have made any difference in this situation. in regards to the regs: it would have converted me to a vessel under power and i think (?) changed my status to some extent in relation to the 2 other vessels. not that my decision was based on that or that it really does not matter once fiberglass contacts steel. the point being i was making good speed in good wind. given that the tug/barge changed course twice: was he obligated to give way? or is this a "fluid" problem that needs to be constantly reassessed?--which means always stay out of his way no matter what courses he chooses? felt like a cat and mouse sort of thing. as a technical point: their seems to be a difference between an inablitiy to maneuver because of draft, in a particular direction--versus the general maneuverablity of a vessel because of length/speed/wieght. i am not sure these 2 issues are connected by the regs. as i understand it, constrained by draft is designed to prevent a vessel from running aground. in this regard there was no danger to the freighter who had plenty of room to the south, which was his general route. the tub could not turn towards the north to cross in front of me because of draft and speed issues, and he could not turn south because of the freighter, which left him pointed at me. my guess is not i or the freighter anticipated a circling tub. "Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ... Not knowing the area, I have a couple of comments. I'm not sure you were stand on, given that if there is any doubt about draft constraint. Also, a tug and a barge have status in most cases, but again, I don't know the area. Also, why not hail them and ask their intentions? Finally, while sailing does give you stand on status in many circumstances, it also limits your ability to take evasive action. Perhaps it would have been prudent to start the engine? -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "gonefishiing" wrote in message ... out for a late night sail last week, which i do a lot of. western edge of long island sound, ny on a port tack heading southwest towards the throgs neck bridge. slack tide. particulary dark night. full main and jib set 15 knots wind keeping a vigilant eye out for ships, i spot a black form against the lights of the city in front of me and realize it is a tug and barge and i also realize (in the absence of visible nav lights) his small profile means he is headed right at me and steaming. i decide to tack the boat around 180 degrees and give him some room........assuming (correctly) his course has 2 possiblities--he is going to continue eastbound in the sound or he is going to turn north towards eastchester bay to anchor his barge (partial mistake no.1?). he turns northeast towards the barge anchorage, paralleling my course and i am east of him and the barge anchorage- out of his way. towards the east i spot another ship (freighter) steaming westbound for the gate. he is north of the lane that most of the commerical ships take for the bridge. and a quick visual calculation tells me i can cross his bow without problem and also because he needs to turn behind my stern to set his course for the bridge (and soon!) (partial mistake no.2?) they are both aware that i am here-- million candle power lights illuminating sails had a way of doing that. (my light) 1: the freighter, westbound, is not turning although i have crossed his bow--only slightly and he'll end up passing beyond me, far too close and moving fast. 2: the tug/barge decides to steer a circle around the barge anchorage and end up eastbound again --off my port beam and close enough that i can see the pilot. he has slowed down significantly at this point as i am now between both vessels. (on a starboard tack) 3: they both passed "safely" at my stern, to the south of me the freigher first, the tug next. this was really too close for comfort, and i had my hands full sailing. not to negate my responsiblity, i think constrained by draft here is a relative term, if it even applies. they each had a mile of room to the south (behind me) to manuveur and cannot understand why they would choose to approach so closely, as my actions were clear, my course was appropriate and consistent and meant to give each a wide berth and for whatever it may be worth, i think everyone took the correct actions i believe i was the stand on vessel the freighter was 2nd in pecking order the tug/barge gave way what would you have done differently? gf. |
#30
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ganz, the whole posting was bogus. a piece of fiction.
From: "Jonathan Ganz" Date: 8/15/2004 9:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time Message-id: Hey, umm... if the engine was started then you're a motorboat. You have no status at that point, certainly not above a tug/tow. I hope you were running your steaming light. Otherwise, you could be cited. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "gonefishiing" wrote in message ... agreed: for the sake of safety, i always stay away from bigger vessels and did so on this sail as well, until the tug/barge (TUB) changed course for the final time. i was certain i was ok with both vessels until the barge circled around and was pointing at me again leaving me no evasive action to take. neither vessel produced any indication of warning that i was in the way (lights / horn) agreed again: i realize i should have hailed them on the radio and asked for they're intentions long before events became close. definitely mistake no.1. Sometimes i do this, sometimes i don't. it has always been a simple assesment of whether i believe i will be out of the way. and i did believe this. monitoring channel 13 for security calls is also something that i usually do at night. this night i did not. the engine was started and idling by in case i needed it. in regards to avoiding a collision, given the speed differentials of the vessels, i don't believe the engine would have made any difference in this situation. in regards to the regs: it would have converted me to a vessel under power and i think (?) changed my status to some extent in relation to the 2 other vessels. not that my decision was based on that or that it really does not matter once fiberglass contacts steel. the point being i was making good speed in good wind. given that the tug/barge changed course twice: was he obligated to give way? or is this a "fluid" problem that needs to be constantly reassessed?--which means always stay out of his way no matter what courses he chooses? felt like a cat and mouse sort of thing. as a technical point: their seems to be a difference between an inablitiy to maneuver because of draft, in a particular direction--versus the general maneuverablity of a vessel because of length/speed/wieght. i am not sure these 2 issues are connected by the regs. as i understand it, constrained by draft is designed to prevent a vessel from running aground. in this regard there was no danger to the freighter who had plenty of room to the south, which was his general route. the tub could not turn towards the north to cross in front of me because of draft and speed issues, and he could not turn south because of the freighter, which left him pointed at me. my guess is not i or the freighter anticipated a circling tub. "Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ... Not knowing the area, I have a couple of comments. I'm not sure you were stand on, given that if there is any doubt about draft constraint. Also, a tug and a barge have status in most cases, but again, I don't know the area. Also, why not hail them and ask their intentions? Finally, while sailing does give you stand on status in many circumstances, it also limits your ability to take evasive action. Perhaps it would have been prudent to start the engine? -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "gonefishiing" wrote in message ... out for a late night sail last week, which i do a lot of. western edge of long island sound, ny on a port tack heading southwest towards the throgs neck bridge. slack tide. particulary dark night. full main and jib set 15 knots wind keeping a vigilant eye out for ships, i spot a black form against the lights of the city in front of me and realize it is a tug and barge and i also realize (in the absence of visible nav lights) his small profile means he is headed right at me and steaming. i decide to tack the boat around 180 degrees and give him some room........assuming (correctly) his course has 2 possiblities--he is going to continue eastbound in the sound or he is going to turn north towards eastchester bay to anchor his barge (partial mistake no.1?). he turns northeast towards the barge anchorage, paralleling my course and i am east of him and the barge anchorage- out of his way. towards the east i spot another ship (freighter) steaming westbound for the gate. he is north of the lane that most of the commerical ships take for the bridge. and a quick visual calculation tells me i can cross his bow without problem and also because he needs to turn behind my stern to set his course for the bridge (and soon!) (partial mistake no.2?) they are both aware that i am here-- million candle power lights illuminating sails had a way of doing that. (my light) 1: the freighter, westbound, is not turning although i have crossed his bow--only slightly and he'll end up passing beyond me, far too close and moving |
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