Faith is the only option that is available to the enquiring mind.


Faith is the refuge for the ignorant. It dissallows speculation and free
thought. Because of faith, the 9/11 terrorists could not even imagine that they
were doing something evil.
The fundmental operational element of faith was and always will be ignorance.
People once believed with all certainly that the world was flat, just as you
believe in a mythical being, just as some folks believe in ghosts.

RB

Bobsprit wrote:

People once believed with all certainly that the world was
flat, just as you believe in a mythical being, just as some folks
believe in ghosts.

I would include faith in the truth of the causality hypothesis. Virtually
everybody has faith - it's a question of what one has faith in.


--
Wally
www.forthsailing.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Virtually
everybody has faith - it's a question of what one has faith in.

I have no faith in anything, Wally. It's a dangerous term. But then you could
say I have faith in my lack of faith.
You'll note that I'm attacking Donal's belief system, but not Donal. He, on the
other hand, attacks me. As I pointed out, reigious folk tend to seek out a
dangerous and hurtful position.

RB

RB

Bobsprit wrote:

I have no faith in anything, Wally. It's a dangerous term. But then
you could say I have faith in my lack of faith.

I can go with what you're saying - I see the causality hypothesis as a
description with a high level of consistency with observation. Use of it
amounts to little more than a gamble.


You'll note that I'm attacking Donal's belief system, but not Donal.
He, on the other hand, attacks me. As I pointed out, reigious folk
tend to seek out a dangerous and hurtful position.

My allusion in my previous post was that, whatever one has faith in, having
that faith would seem a personal or individual thing, such that trying to
get someone else to share that faith is a pointless excercise unless they're
already so disposed.


--
Wally
www.forthsailing.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Virtually
everybody has faith - it's a question of what one has faith in.

I have no faith in anything,

C'mon, Bob! You don't really believe that, do you?



Wally. It's a dangerous term. But then you could
say I have faith in my lack of faith.
You'll note that I'm attacking Donal's belief system, but not Donal.

I know that you are a really nice guy. I truly respect you for that!!

He, on the
other hand, attacks me.

If I had realised that you suffered from a "victim" mentality, then I would
have ignored you completely.

Unfortunately, if I ignored you, then you really would feel like a victim,
wouldn't you?






As I pointed out, reigious folk tend to seek out a
dangerous and hurtful position.



That comment is hurtful! Are you religious?



Regards


Donal
--

He, on the
other hand, attacks me.

If I had realised that you suffered from a "victim" mentality, then I would
have ignored you completely.

Donal, we can discuss beliefs without taking it to a personal level. I respect
you for two reasons: 1-You sail. 2- You seem to have a sense of humor. There's
really very little else I can tell from what's written here, but in this group
you MUST have those two items to survive.
Ultimately, I believe that the key reason people continue to believe in god is
because they are unable to cope with the idea of dying; of not being. The
control commanded by various religions is totally based on a promised "quality
of afterlife." Meanwhile, our biology and real world efforts are clearly geared
to the reality of a final and complete end.
If that seems sad, consider that many wonderful things (Roses, sunsets, the
life of a beloved dog) all end quickly, making them all the more special. We
need not invent a heaven for them, or ourselves.

RB

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
He, on the
other hand, attacks me.

If I had realised that you suffered from a "victim" mentality, then I
would
have ignored you completely.

Donal, we can discuss beliefs without taking it to a personal level. I
respect
you for two reasons: 1-You sail.

Hah!! You do have faith!


2- You seem to have a sense of humor. There's
really very little else I can tell from what's written here, but in this
group
you MUST have those two items to survive.
Ultimately, I believe that the key reason people continue to believe in
god is
because they are unable to cope with the idea of dying; of not being.

I disagree. If you look at my posts, you will see that my views have a
scientific base. I would ask that you consider my original question - and
also my three options regarding the origins of the Universe.



The
control commanded by various religions is totally based on a promised
"quality
of afterlife." Meanwhile, our biology and real world efforts are clearly
geared
to the reality of a final and complete end.
If that seems sad, consider that many wonderful things (Roses, sunsets,
the
life of a beloved dog) all end quickly, making them all the more special.
We
need not invent a heaven for them, or ourselves.

Once again, I invite you to highlight *anything* in my posts that could be
deemed "unscientific".

I don't have blind faith. I've worked it out.

Regards


Donal
--

Once again, I invite you to highlight *anything* in my posts that could be
deemed "unscientific".

I don't have blind faith. I've worked it out.

You've used poor math. There's no scientific evidence to suggest god exists or
predates the universe, meaning god had to also be created. No one knows the
answer. God is a fable...and not a very nice one. In fact, there's no reason to
believe that I'm not god. I can prove it quite easily.

RB

As I pointed out, reigious folk tend to seek out a
dangerous and hurtful position.



That comment is hurtful!

But it's an honest observation. Religious people do one of the following when
questioned about their faith:
1) They kill
2) They attempt to belittle the independent thinker, attempting to kill the
idea.
3) They shun the person.
4) They try to force their ideas on the person.
I'm not saying you do these things, though your posts indicate that you might.
The true moral highground is not tolerance, it's wholehearted acceptance. Some
of my best friends are religious. We've gently exchanged ideas and philosophy
and moved on. If I'm right about it all, I'll never get to say "told ya so." If
I'm wrong, maybe god will explain why his "creation" is so poorly crafted. If
the Rages of Injustice equal power in heaven, I'll have his job...and one
"hell" of a sailboat.....A Swan 40 with the interior of a Swan 100 perhaps.

RB

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
As I pointed out, reigious folk tend to seek out a
dangerous and hurtful position.



That comment is hurtful!

But it's an honest observation. Religious people do one of the following
when
questioned about their faith:
1) They kill

Nonsense!

2) They attempt to belittle the independent thinker, attempting to kill
the
idea.

Rubbish!

3) They shun the person.



4) They try to force their ideas on the person.
I'm not saying you do these things, though your posts indicate that you
might.

Tsk. Tsk. (with acknowledgements to Wally)


The true moral highground is not tolerance, it's wholehearted acceptance.

You're absolutely correct!

Some
of my best friends are religious.

Uh oh! That sounds like "Some of my best friends are black"!!!!

We've gently exchanged ideas and philosophy
and moved on. If I'm right about it all, I'll never get to say "told ya
so."

Of course. You're not that kind of guy, are you?


If
I'm wrong, maybe god will explain why his "creation" is so poorly crafted.
If
the Rages of Injustice equal power in heaven, I'll have his job...and one
"hell" of a sailboat.....A Swan 40 with the interior of a Swan 100
perhaps.


Ahhh! You make the mistake of thinking that mankind is important in the
eyes of God. Why would we be?

Regards


Donal
--