option was diesel or outboard (I chose diesel, and still wonder if
it was for the best.)

nice is there any reason why?

NH_/)_



"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
My boat was "special made" but that is very different from being "custom
made.". For
instance, the primary option was diesel or outboard (I chose diesel, and
still wonder if
it was for the best.) Also, the smaller aft cabin comes completely
unfinished, so there
is a wide variation there - the common choice is a desk and fold down
berth. I got a
freezer and bunk. Others have a "dive den" or workbench.

After that comes the options that you'd see on most production boats -
instrumentation,
cockpit canvas, stove top or oven, microwave, inverter, extra deck
hardware, deck
washdown, windlass, fabric choices etc.. We had special instructions for
the sailmaker;
we asked for extra handholds; we got a Lavac head. I researched
microwaves a bit and
found one that was very efficient, so I asked for that. I found out they
bought 5 of them
to get a better price, so that 4 other buyers had to live with my
"customization." I
would have to say the majority of problems that we had were with
non-standard
installations, such as the freezer and head.

The real issue is how many are made by the yard. When mine was built they
were doing
about a dozen a year, so I had their attention for a month - actually it
was a six month
process, but you know what I mean. A higher output yard means less extra
customization
and less special attention.

BTW, the construction pictures on my web site were taken only a few hours
after we made
the final commitment - they had started construction on "spec" and guessed
they we (or
whoever would get it) would want the diesel. More often they have a
backlog of up to a
year.

--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man trying to send
back soup at the
deli."

P.S. One unique customization they did was a cat box built into a locker.
Much
appreciated by the Feline-American members of the crew.


"NH_/)_" wrote in message
m...
Jeff? most cats are special made right? I mean they are all diff.
made to order. or are they made by production standards?

yours was special made?

NH_/)_

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
The big problem in defending the Catamaran side of the multi vs. mono
discussions is that
there are simply very few choices of cats in the low end. While there
are
numerous
possibilities in monos for under $50K, the entry for multihulls is
much
higher. For
instance, if you're looking for a cat less than 10 years old and over
32
feet, you might
get a Gemini for as low as $70, but a more seaworthy Prout would
probably
be over $100k.

If you go back much further, you find cats that are not as well
designed,
and have spent
too much time in the tropics under charter. On the other hand, there
are
numerous
examples of well designed monohulls that are 20-30 years old and can
be
had at very
reasonable prices.

However, if you're in the market for a newer boat, the modern cats are
more competitively
priced. For instance, 42 foot good mono, roughly 5 years old, will
cost
between $150 and
$220, depending on the brand etc. You'll find roughly the same price
range in 36 foot
catamarans, which have the same space & speed, or more.

-jeff

"DSK" wrote in message
...

Except for a few Chris White designs, I have yet to see a
cruising
cat that was designed for cruising (ie a small number of people
aboard long term) rather than chartering or weekend partying
(not
that there's anything wrong with that).

Jeff Morris wrote:
Have you been on a newer PDQ36? They are certainly not built for
chartering, and a
large
number of owners have done extensive cruising.

I stand corrected.... Actually I have been on a couple of PDQs.
Should
have said "most"
not
"all." The PDQ trawler cats are really nice too.



3 sails in shallow water

So will a properly designed mono.


Are you saying that any monohull with a draft over 3 feet is not
properlly designed?

From my point of view, and for most U.S. East Coast waters, yes. At
least it's all mud &
sand......


3 can't use a windvane


Why not?

Apparent wind varies tremendously (as it will on a fast monohull). A
windvane will often
make
such a boat bear away and speed up until it's 60 degrees off course,
then wander back
and
forth in that same range.



4 poor performance in chop (also very noisy)

So have a lot of monohulls. Yes, the noise can be dramatic, but a
varies a lot, cat
to
cat.

True. But I was thinking of speed & steering, not noise. What's a
little
banging under
the
bridge deck? Although I have seen some cats with scuppers that would
fountain very
dramatically when a wave slapped underneath....


Can you name a few? I'll admit that you can get one or two of
these
traits, and if
you're
willing to get an older boat you can do better with a monohull.
But
if you're
comparing
newer boats I don't know what would fill your description.

How much newer? I was looking at boats in the 10 ~ 25 year old
range.
The French seem to
build
a lot of centerboarders with good accomodations & good performance.
Some
of the ones we
looked
at were aluminum, which isn't everybody's cup of tea.

I freely admit to being biased towards monohulls, and try to give
honest
assessments of
boats
I have experience with. Jeff, I did give you credit in an earlier
post
for the same
approach,
only biased the other way! There are a few really nice multis out
there,
but the
compromises
seem (to me) to be a bit more extreme than with monohulls, and the
costs
higher.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Your not answering me , I'm not Trolling LOL
just curious is all, My husband wants us to have diesel as well.

Thanks

NH_/)_

--
Nora_00112
ED ScamWatch
Senior Technical Officer

--------
http://nortech-cs.com/sailusa/index4.htm
"NH_/)_" wrote in message
m...
option was diesel or outboard (I chose diesel, and still wonder if
it was for the best.)

nice is there any reason why?

NH_/)_



"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
My boat was "special made" but that is very different from being "custom
made.". For
instance, the primary option was diesel or outboard (I chose diesel, and
still wonder if
it was for the best.) Also, the smaller aft cabin comes completely
unfinished, so there
is a wide variation there - the common choice is a desk and fold down
berth. I got a
freezer and bunk. Others have a "dive den" or workbench.

After that comes the options that you'd see on most production boats -
instrumentation,
cockpit canvas, stove top or oven, microwave, inverter, extra deck
hardware, deck
washdown, windlass, fabric choices etc.. We had special instructions
for
the sailmaker;
we asked for extra handholds; we got a Lavac head. I researched
microwaves a bit and
found one that was very efficient, so I asked for that. I found out
they
bought 5 of them
to get a better price, so that 4 other buyers had to live with my
"customization." I
would have to say the majority of problems that we had were with
non-standard
installations, such as the freezer and head.

The real issue is how many are made by the yard. When mine was built
they
were doing
about a dozen a year, so I had their attention for a month - actually it
was a six month
process, but you know what I mean. A higher output yard means less
extra
customization
and less special attention.

BTW, the construction pictures on my web site were taken only a few
hours
after we made
the final commitment - they had started construction on "spec" and
guessed
they we (or
whoever would get it) would want the diesel. More often they have a
backlog of up to a
year.

--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man trying to send
back soup at the
deli."

P.S. One unique customization they did was a cat box built into a
locker.
Much
appreciated by the Feline-American members of the crew.


"NH_/)_" wrote in message
m...
Jeff? most cats are special made right? I mean they are all diff.
made to order. or are they made by production standards?

yours was special made?

NH_/)_

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
The big problem in defending the Catamaran side of the multi vs.
mono
discussions is that
there are simply very few choices of cats in the low end. While
there
are
numerous
possibilities in monos for under $50K, the entry for multihulls is
much
higher. For
instance, if you're looking for a cat less than 10 years old and
over
32
feet, you might
get a Gemini for as low as $70, but a more seaworthy Prout would
probably
be over $100k.

If you go back much further, you find cats that are not as well
designed,
and have spent
too much time in the tropics under charter. On the other hand,
there
are
numerous
examples of well designed monohulls that are 20-30 years old and can
be
had at very
reasonable prices.

However, if you're in the market for a newer boat, the modern cats
are
more competitively
priced. For instance, 42 foot good mono, roughly 5 years old, will
cost
between $150 and
$220, depending on the brand etc. You'll find roughly the same
price
range in 36 foot
catamarans, which have the same space & speed, or more.

-jeff

"DSK" wrote in message
...

Except for a few Chris White designs, I have yet to see a
cruising
cat that was designed for cruising (ie a small number of
people
aboard long term) rather than chartering or weekend partying
(not
that there's anything wrong with that).

Jeff Morris wrote:
Have you been on a newer PDQ36? They are certainly not built
for
chartering, and a
large
number of owners have done extensive cruising.

I stand corrected.... Actually I have been on a couple of PDQs.
Should
have said "most"
not
"all." The PDQ trawler cats are really nice too.



3 sails in shallow water

So will a properly designed mono.


Are you saying that any monohull with a draft over 3 feet is not
properlly designed?

From my point of view, and for most U.S. East Coast waters, yes.
At
least it's all mud &
sand......


3 can't use a windvane


Why not?

Apparent wind varies tremendously (as it will on a fast monohull).
A
windvane will often
make
such a boat bear away and speed up until it's 60 degrees off
course,
then wander back
and
forth in that same range.



4 poor performance in chop (also very noisy)

So have a lot of monohulls. Yes, the noise can be dramatic, but
a
varies a lot, cat
to
cat.

True. But I was thinking of speed & steering, not noise. What's a
little
banging under
the
bridge deck? Although I have seen some cats with scuppers that
would
fountain very
dramatically when a wave slapped underneath....


Can you name a few? I'll admit that you can get one or two of
these
traits, and if
you're
willing to get an older boat you can do better with a monohull.
But
if you're
comparing
newer boats I don't know what would fill your description.

How much newer? I was looking at boats in the 10 ~ 25 year old
range.
The French seem to
build
a lot of centerboarders with good accomodations & good
performance.
Some
of the ones we
looked
at were aluminum, which isn't everybody's cup of tea.

I freely admit to being biased towards monohulls, and try to give
honest
assessments of
boats
I have experience with. Jeff, I did give you credit in an earlier
post
for the same
approach,
only biased the other way! There are a few really nice multis out
there,
but the
compromises
seem (to me) to be a bit more extreme than with monohulls, and the
costs
higher.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Yes, I know what you mean. I worked at the Irwin Yacht
yard in Clearwater, FL for a year and we always hated it
when buyers came snooping around with their ignorant
suggestions and last-minute changes based on nothing but
a whim.

What other reason would bring an Irwin buyer around. Those POS boats were
usually bought on a whim to begin with. How fitting that you had a hand in
their construction!

RB

Hey, give me a break! You workers have nothing better to do than sit around your computer
and chat.

Us "retired" folk actually have a life! I was busy calling in my unemployment insurance!



"NH_/)_" wrote in message
m...
Your not answering me , I'm not Trolling LOL
just curious is all, My husband wants us to have diesel as well.

Thanks

NH_/)_

--
Nora_00112
ED ScamWatch
Senior Technical Officer

--------
http://nortech-cs.com/sailusa/index4.htm
"NH_/)_" wrote in message
m...
option was diesel or outboard (I chose diesel, and still wonder if
it was for the best.)

nice is there any reason why?

NH_/)_



"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
My boat was "special made" but that is very different from being "custom
made.". For
instance, the primary option was diesel or outboard (I chose diesel, and
still wonder if
it was for the best.) Also, the smaller aft cabin comes completely
unfinished, so there
is a wide variation there - the common choice is a desk and fold down
berth. I got a
freezer and bunk. Others have a "dive den" or workbench.

After that comes the options that you'd see on most production boats -
instrumentation,
cockpit canvas, stove top or oven, microwave, inverter, extra deck
hardware, deck
washdown, windlass, fabric choices etc.. We had special instructions
for
the sailmaker;
we asked for extra handholds; we got a Lavac head. I researched
microwaves a bit and
found one that was very efficient, so I asked for that. I found out
they
bought 5 of them
to get a better price, so that 4 other buyers had to live with my
"customization." I
would have to say the majority of problems that we had were with
non-standard
installations, such as the freezer and head.

The real issue is how many are made by the yard. When mine was built
they
were doing
about a dozen a year, so I had their attention for a month - actually it
was a six month
process, but you know what I mean. A higher output yard means less
extra
customization
and less special attention.

BTW, the construction pictures on my web site were taken only a few
hours
after we made
the final commitment - they had started construction on "spec" and
guessed
they we (or
whoever would get it) would want the diesel. More often they have a
backlog of up to a
year.

--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man trying to send
back soup at the
deli."

P.S. One unique customization they did was a cat box built into a
locker.
Much
appreciated by the Feline-American members of the crew.


"NH_/)_" wrote in message
m...
Jeff? most cats are special made right? I mean they are all diff.
made to order. or are they made by production standards?

yours was special made?

NH_/)_

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
The big problem in defending the Catamaran side of the multi vs.
mono
discussions is that
there are simply very few choices of cats in the low end. While
there
are
numerous
possibilities in monos for under $50K, the entry for multihulls is
much
higher. For
instance, if you're looking for a cat less than 10 years old and
over
32
feet, you might
get a Gemini for as low as $70, but a more seaworthy Prout would
probably
be over $100k.

If you go back much further, you find cats that are not as well
designed,
and have spent
too much time in the tropics under charter. On the other hand,
there
are
numerous
examples of well designed monohulls that are 20-30 years old and can
be
had at very
reasonable prices.

However, if you're in the market for a newer boat, the modern cats
are
more competitively
priced. For instance, 42 foot good mono, roughly 5 years old, will
cost
between $150 and
$220, depending on the brand etc. You'll find roughly the same
price
range in 36 foot
catamarans, which have the same space & speed, or more.

-jeff

"DSK" wrote in message
...

Except for a few Chris White designs, I have yet to see a
cruising
cat that was designed for cruising (ie a small number of
people
aboard long term) rather than chartering or weekend partying
(not
that there's anything wrong with that).

Jeff Morris wrote:
Have you been on a newer PDQ36? They are certainly not built
for
chartering, and a
large
number of owners have done extensive cruising.

I stand corrected.... Actually I have been on a couple of PDQs.
Should
have said "most"
not
"all." The PDQ trawler cats are really nice too.



3 sails in shallow water

So will a properly designed mono.


Are you saying that any monohull with a draft over 3 feet is not
properlly designed?

From my point of view, and for most U.S. East Coast waters, yes.
At
least it's all mud &
sand......


3 can't use a windvane


Why not?

Apparent wind varies tremendously (as it will on a fast monohull).
A
windvane will often
make
such a boat bear away and speed up until it's 60 degrees off
course,
then wander back
and
forth in that same range.



4 poor performance in chop (also very noisy)

So have a lot of monohulls. Yes, the noise can be dramatic, but
a
varies a lot, cat
to
cat.

True. But I was thinking of speed & steering, not noise. What's a
little
banging under
the
bridge deck? Although I have seen some cats with scuppers that
would
fountain very
dramatically when a wave slapped underneath....


Can you name a few? I'll admit that you can get one or two of
these
traits, and if
you're
willing to get an older boat you can do better with a monohull.
But
if you're
comparing
newer boats I don't know what would fill your description.

How much newer? I was looking at boats in the 10 ~ 25 year old
range.
The French seem to
build
a lot of centerboarders with good accomodations & good
performance.
Some
of the ones we
looked
at were aluminum, which isn't everybody's cup of tea.

I freely admit to being biased towards monohulls, and try to give
honest
assessments of
boats
I have experience with. Jeff, I did give you credit in an earlier
post
for the same
approach,
only biased the other way! There are a few really nice multis out
there,
but the
compromises
seem (to me) to be a bit more extreme than with monohulls, and the
costs
higher.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Typical Democrat - suck the system for all it's worth then
lobby for higher taxes so it'll be worth even more. Never
think about going to work and earning a living for once. . .
Let the rest of us pay your way.


"Jeff Morris" wrote the following disgusting drivel
I was busy calling in my unemployment insurance!

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Typical Democrat - suck the system for all it's worth then
lobby for higher taxes so it'll be worth even more. Never
think about going to work and earning a living for once. . .
Let the rest of us pay your way.


With over 30 years of employment in the State I've certainly paid into the Unemployment
Insurance program far more than I ever will receive. Actually, I was an employer for 8
years, and paid *much* more into the system during that period the I ever will receive.

During this Republican recession its a little hard to find jobs around here now-a-days.

CORRECTION: The recession, which is over and lasted three quarters
in 2001, started during the Democrat Clinton's administration. Clinton's
largest tax increases in history in 94/95 caused it.

President George W. Bush cured the Democrat-caused recession
with his tax cuts.

Jeff, you are soooooooooooooo ignorant and stupid!

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ...
"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Typical Democrat - suck the system for all it's worth then
lobby for higher taxes so it'll be worth even more. Never
think about going to work and earning a living for once. . .
Let the rest of us pay your way.


With over 30 years of employment in the State I've certainly paid into the Unemployment
Insurance program far more than I ever will receive. Actually, I was an employer for 8
years, and paid *much* more into the system during that period the I ever will receive.

During this Republican recession its a little hard to find jobs around here now-a-days.

Diesel Pros:
more reliable
more power
high output alternator
much quieter
safer fuel
much better economy
hot water heater

Outboard Pros:
Less weight
Less drag (they can be lifted)
You lose cockpit lockers, but can space below
they can be easily removed for replacement
you can carry a third as spare or dinghy engine
lower cost

The biggest thing against the outboards is the lack of electrical generation. We would
have needed some type of genset - either an gas portable, or a built in diesel. The adds
a third engine to maintain, and in the latter case we would then have would need to carry
two types of fuel.

My second thoughts usually center around the newer very quiet gas gensets from Honda, the
fact that the price difference would have bought at lot of solar panels and wind
generators, and did we really need a freezer?

On the other hand, the dull roar of a diesel loafing along is a lot easier to take than
the scream of an outboard working hard.

-jeff

"NH_/)_" wrote in message
m...
option was diesel or outboard (I chose diesel, and still wonder if
it was for the best.)

nice is there any reason why?

NH_/)_



"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
My boat was "special made" but that is very different from being "custom
made.". For
instance, the primary option was diesel or outboard (I chose diesel, and
still wonder if
it was for the best.) Also, the smaller aft cabin comes completely
unfinished, so there
is a wide variation there - the common choice is a desk and fold down
berth. I got a
freezer and bunk. Others have a "dive den" or workbench.

After that comes the options that you'd see on most production boats -
instrumentation,
cockpit canvas, stove top or oven, microwave, inverter, extra deck
hardware, deck
washdown, windlass, fabric choices etc.. We had special instructions for
the sailmaker;
we asked for extra handholds; we got a Lavac head. I researched
microwaves a bit and
found one that was very efficient, so I asked for that. I found out they
bought 5 of them
to get a better price, so that 4 other buyers had to live with my
"customization." I
would have to say the majority of problems that we had were with
non-standard
installations, such as the freezer and head.

The real issue is how many are made by the yard. When mine was built they
were doing
about a dozen a year, so I had their attention for a month - actually it
was a six month
process, but you know what I mean. A higher output yard means less extra
customization
and less special attention.

BTW, the construction pictures on my web site were taken only a few hours
after we made
the final commitment - they had started construction on "spec" and guessed
they we (or
whoever would get it) would want the diesel. More often they have a
backlog of up to a
year.

--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man trying to send
back soup at the
deli."

P.S. One unique customization they did was a cat box built into a locker.
Much
appreciated by the Feline-American members of the crew.


"NH_/)_" wrote in message
m...
Jeff? most cats are special made right? I mean they are all diff.
made to order. or are they made by production standards?

yours was special made?

NH_/)_

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
The big problem in defending the Catamaran side of the multi vs. mono
discussions is that
there are simply very few choices of cats in the low end. While there
are
numerous
possibilities in monos for under $50K, the entry for multihulls is
much
higher. For
instance, if you're looking for a cat less than 10 years old and over
32
feet, you might
get a Gemini for as low as $70, but a more seaworthy Prout would
probably
be over $100k.

If you go back much further, you find cats that are not as well
designed,
and have spent
too much time in the tropics under charter. On the other hand, there
are
numerous
examples of well designed monohulls that are 20-30 years old and can
be
had at very
reasonable prices.

However, if you're in the market for a newer boat, the modern cats are
more competitively
priced. For instance, 42 foot good mono, roughly 5 years old, will
cost
between $150 and
$220, depending on the brand etc. You'll find roughly the same price
range in 36 foot
catamarans, which have the same space & speed, or more.

-jeff

"DSK" wrote in message
...

Except for a few Chris White designs, I have yet to see a
cruising
cat that was designed for cruising (ie a small number of people
aboard long term) rather than chartering or weekend partying
(not
that there's anything wrong with that).

Jeff Morris wrote:
Have you been on a newer PDQ36? They are certainly not built for
chartering, and a
large
number of owners have done extensive cruising.

I stand corrected.... Actually I have been on a couple of PDQs.
Should
have said "most"
not
"all." The PDQ trawler cats are really nice too.



3 sails in shallow water

So will a properly designed mono.


Are you saying that any monohull with a draft over 3 feet is not
properlly designed?

From my point of view, and for most U.S. East Coast waters, yes. At
least it's all mud &
sand......


3 can't use a windvane


Why not?

Apparent wind varies tremendously (as it will on a fast monohull). A
windvane will often
make
such a boat bear away and speed up until it's 60 degrees off course,
then wander back
and
forth in that same range.



4 poor performance in chop (also very noisy)

So have a lot of monohulls. Yes, the noise can be dramatic, but a
varies a lot, cat
to
cat.

True. But I was thinking of speed & steering, not noise. What's a
little
banging under
the
bridge deck? Although I have seen some cats with scuppers that would
fountain very
dramatically when a wave slapped underneath....


Can you name a few? I'll admit that you can get one or two of
these
traits, and if
you're
willing to get an older boat you can do better with a monohull.
But
if you're
comparing
newer boats I don't know what would fill your description.

How much newer? I was looking at boats in the 10 ~ 25 year old
range.
The French seem to
build
a lot of centerboarders with good accomodations & good performance.
Some
of the ones we
looked
at were aluminum, which isn't everybody's cup of tea.

I freely admit to being biased towards monohulls, and try to give
honest
assessments of
boats
I have experience with. Jeff, I did give you credit in an earlier
post
for the same
approach,
only biased the other way! There are a few really nice multis out
there,
but the
compromises
seem (to me) to be a bit more extreme than with monohulls, and the
costs
higher.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Thanks Jeff

NH_/)_

--
Nora_00112
ED ScamWatch
Senior Technical Officer

--------
http://nortech-cs.com/sailusa/index4.htm
"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Diesel Pros:
more reliable
more power
high output alternator
much quieter
safer fuel
much better economy
hot water heater

Outboard Pros:
Less weight
Less drag (they can be lifted)
You lose cockpit lockers, but can space below
they can be easily removed for replacement
you can carry a third as spare or dinghy engine
lower cost

The biggest thing against the outboards is the lack of electrical
generation. We would
have needed some type of genset - either an gas portable, or a built in
diesel. The adds
a third engine to maintain, and in the latter case we would then have
would need to carry
two types of fuel.

My second thoughts usually center around the newer very quiet gas gensets
from Honda, the
fact that the price difference would have bought at lot of solar panels
and wind
generators, and did we really need a freezer?

On the other hand, the dull roar of a diesel loafing along is a lot easier
to take than
the scream of an outboard working hard.

-jeff

"NH_/)_" wrote in message
m...
option was diesel or outboard (I chose diesel, and still wonder if
it was for the best.)

nice is there any reason why?

NH_/)_



"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
My boat was "special made" but that is very different from being
"custom
made.". For
instance, the primary option was diesel or outboard (I chose diesel,
and
still wonder if
it was for the best.) Also, the smaller aft cabin comes completely
unfinished, so there
is a wide variation there - the common choice is a desk and fold down
berth. I got a
freezer and bunk. Others have a "dive den" or workbench.

After that comes the options that you'd see on most production boats -
instrumentation,
cockpit canvas, stove top or oven, microwave, inverter, extra deck
hardware, deck
washdown, windlass, fabric choices etc.. We had special instructions
for
the sailmaker;
we asked for extra handholds; we got a Lavac head. I researched
microwaves a bit and
found one that was very efficient, so I asked for that. I found out
they
bought 5 of them
to get a better price, so that 4 other buyers had to live with my
"customization." I
would have to say the majority of problems that we had were with
non-standard
installations, such as the freezer and head.

The real issue is how many are made by the yard. When mine was built
they
were doing
about a dozen a year, so I had their attention for a month - actually
it
was a six month
process, but you know what I mean. A higher output yard means less
extra
customization
and less special attention.

BTW, the construction pictures on my web site were taken only a few
hours
after we made
the final commitment - they had started construction on "spec" and
guessed
they we (or
whoever would get it) would want the diesel. More often they have a
backlog of up to a
year.

--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man trying to send
back soup at the
deli."

P.S. One unique customization they did was a cat box built into a
locker.
Much
appreciated by the Feline-American members of the crew.


"NH_/)_" wrote in message
m...
Jeff? most cats are special made right? I mean they are all diff.
made to order. or are they made by production standards?

yours was special made?

NH_/)_

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
The big problem in defending the Catamaran side of the multi vs.
mono
discussions is that
there are simply very few choices of cats in the low end. While
there
are
numerous
possibilities in monos for under $50K, the entry for multihulls is
much
higher. For
instance, if you're looking for a cat less than 10 years old and
over
32
feet, you might
get a Gemini for as low as $70, but a more seaworthy Prout would
probably
be over $100k.

If you go back much further, you find cats that are not as well
designed,
and have spent
too much time in the tropics under charter. On the other hand,
there
are
numerous
examples of well designed monohulls that are 20-30 years old and
can
be
had at very
reasonable prices.

However, if you're in the market for a newer boat, the modern cats
are
more competitively
priced. For instance, 42 foot good mono, roughly 5 years old,
will
cost
between $150 and
$220, depending on the brand etc. You'll find roughly the same
price
range in 36 foot
catamarans, which have the same space & speed, or more.

-jeff

"DSK" wrote in message
...

Except for a few Chris White designs, I have yet to see a
cruising
cat that was designed for cruising (ie a small number of
people
aboard long term) rather than chartering or weekend partying
(not
that there's anything wrong with that).

Jeff Morris wrote:
Have you been on a newer PDQ36? They are certainly not built
for
chartering, and a
large
number of owners have done extensive cruising.

I stand corrected.... Actually I have been on a couple of PDQs.
Should
have said "most"
not
"all." The PDQ trawler cats are really nice too.



3 sails in shallow water

So will a properly designed mono.


Are you saying that any monohull with a draft over 3 feet is
not
properlly designed?

From my point of view, and for most U.S. East Coast waters, yes.
At
least it's all mud &
sand......


3 can't use a windvane


Why not?

Apparent wind varies tremendously (as it will on a fast
monohull). A
windvane will often
make
such a boat bear away and speed up until it's 60 degrees off
course,
then wander back
and
forth in that same range.



4 poor performance in chop (also very noisy)

So have a lot of monohulls. Yes, the noise can be dramatic,
but a
varies a lot, cat
to
cat.

True. But I was thinking of speed & steering, not noise. What's
a
little
banging under
the
bridge deck? Although I have seen some cats with scuppers that
would
fountain very
dramatically when a wave slapped underneath....


Can you name a few? I'll admit that you can get one or two of
these
traits, and if
you're
willing to get an older boat you can do better with a
monohull.
But
if you're
comparing
newer boats I don't know what would fill your description.

How much newer? I was looking at boats in the 10 ~ 25 year old
range.
The French seem to
build
a lot of centerboarders with good accomodations & good
performance.
Some
of the ones we
looked
at were aluminum, which isn't everybody's cup of tea.

I freely admit to being biased towards monohulls, and try to
give
honest
assessments of
boats
I have experience with. Jeff, I did give you credit in an
earlier
post
for the same
approach,
only biased the other way! There are a few really nice multis
out
there,
but the
compromises
seem (to me) to be a bit more extreme than with monohulls, and
the
costs
higher.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King