That's right. Look at Hunters for example. A load of crap mostly.
They shouldn't be offshore either, at least not without extensive
retrofit.

"The Captains Master" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 18:26:52 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote:

True Captains don't abide junk. Those big, ugly cruising
catamarans are the SUVs of the boating world. They
even roll over like an SUV. They are not worthy to even
be considered ocean-going boats. They are for partying
at the dock and for motoring around and occasionally
sailing in sheltered or coastal waters.

S.Simon - the one and only

Ahhh Cappy you fail to distinguish between the different types of
boat.
There are big unseaworthy monos as well designed only for sitting in
the dock and partying.
In fact there are quite a few in San Diego that have refrigetation
units and generators in what would normally be the engine room.

Then there are the fast cruisers in both multi and mono.....you really
should bludge a ride sometime so you can speak with at least a little
knowledge under the belt.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

But, if it's missing one of those things, it will sink. Of course,
it will be upright on the bottom...

"DSK" wrote in message
...
"NH_/)_" wrote:

.... so when the funds
come in, we know what we want. and the cat right now is
lurking top choice.

Reasons
1 will flip ...but does not sink

Neither will a monohull with either bulkheads or positive flotation, and
if the mono flips it will come back.

Absolutely true.


Actually, it takes really bad luck and/or stupidity to flip a big
cruising cat. Not a realistic concern, you should worry about being
struck by a meteor first.


2 more room

Depends on how you count 'room.' Most multis suffer from lack of stowage
and the extra room is divided up into small compartments. Except for a
few Chris White designs, I have yet to see a cruising cat that was
designed for cruising (ie a small number of people aboard long term)
rather than chartering or weekend partying (not that there's anything
wrong with that).


3 sails in shallow water

So will a properly designed mono.


4 more stable on the water

Yep. Definitely a plus there.



Down side

1 Costs are high
the one we are looking at costs 300K
we only have 140K right now so we have to
wait for the trust to come available.

2 mooring can be more difficult--finding room

3 can't use a windvane

4 poor performance in chop (also very noisy)

5 poor performance in light air (but you'll probably be motoring anyway)

but wait there's more! I always manage to PO the multi fans because I
point out the lack of perfection of their craft... of course all boats
are a compromise.

Personally, aesthetics aside, I don't think cats are a logical choice.
For what a big cruising cat costs, you can get & outfit a mono that is
bigger, roomier, faster, more seaworthy, with centerboard or lifting
keel, and the only thing you gain with the cat is no heeling.

Fresh Breezes
Doug King

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
All it takes is realism and common sense.

Given ocean miles traveled . . .

Fact: Cats capsize more often than monos

I'm willing to bet that's not the case. Monos are much more
common and they capsize quite often. Happens all the time
on the SF bay during races.

Fact: Cats stay upside down more often than monos

I'd rather be upside down on the surface than rightside
up on the bottom.

Who needs that"

S.Simon



"The Captains Master" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 18:34:11 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote:


There's no correlation. There are probably about five percent
or less multi-hulls cruising the oceans of the world. Raw numbers
would make it seem that monohulls suffered more losses but if
one works the percentages it is easy to see that catamarans
are much much more dangerous. They are a gimmick, a fad,
an offshoot from the charter trade where people could care
less about sailing. People who charter big cats only want
room to party, refrigeration and freezers so they can stuff
their faces with food they cooked in their 'gourmet galleys".

They'd be far better of on a cruise ship, for gawd's sake.

S.Simon - a Captain who knows cruising

You're talking thru your hat.....again!

Do me a favour, before you broach the subject again do some research
on the multis lost in recent years....after the designs were sorted.
Remember Cappy they haven't been around all that long.

You're relying on bar talk and rumour, you have absolutely no basis
for the BS you've trotted out.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

And, I've heard the opposite. I've know skippers who've
never had anyone get sick on cat deliveries, but have been
sick themselves on mono deliveries. I think it's a matter of
what you're used to not a matter of the boat itself.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Personally, aesthetics aside, I don't think cats are a logical choice.
For what a big cruising cat costs, you can get & outfit a mono that is
bigger, roomier, faster, more seaworthy, with centerboard or lifting
keel, and the only thing you gain with the cat is no heeling.

I have a friend who's delievered several (4) big cats transatlantic. With
experienced crews, he said the motion of the cats was horrible and some
seasoned sailors got sea sick for the 1st time in their lives. He feels
they
are best as coastal cruisers and not true sea boats.

RB

I've raced on F-24s. They're nimble, quick, and dry (except for
the beer). They are expensive, however.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Get a folding trimaran like the Corsair. Then you can use one slip.
They're still expensive. However, the tris are faster than cats and
they point higher.

There's a 28 foot Cosair near me, Say what you want, but those people have
a
blast on that thing and get everywhere 1st.

RB

I've seen several of them here. They did fine in the last major storm..
winds over 70kts. They didn't fall over in their slips.

"The Captains Master" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:18:34 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

Get a folding trimaran like the Corsair. Then you can use one slip.
They're still expensive. However, the tris are faster than cats and
they point higher. You can also haul them behind a car if you need
to...

Whaaaaat!
You've actually seen a folding tri folded in its slip?
They have no keel and will just fall over.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

I think they're totally cool when the fold or unfold.

"katysails" wrote in message
...
Whaaaaat!
You've actually seen a folding tri folded in its slip?
They have no keel and will just fall over.

Guy who used to have a Corsair at the former marina left it partly
folded...had to rasie the amas to get past the mooring posts..once in he'd
let her stretch out a bit,. Looked like a Klingon Bird of Prey sitting
there partially folded....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Yep. That's true. They're not much for more than a weekend or so,
until you get over 35 feet. Then, they seem to have just about the
same amount of room as a mono and the outer hulls start to have
usable storage, though you do have to watch the weight in them.

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Get a folding trimaran like the Corsair. Then you can use one slip.
They're still expensive. However, the tris are faster than cats and
they point higher. You can also haul them behind a car if you need
to...


All the folding tri's that I have seen have lousy accommodation. The
centre
hull tends to be much narrower than a mono, and the outer hulls have no
accommodation at all. They seem a bit "specialist" to me.


Regards


Donal
--

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
More downsides:

1) It won't go to weather worth a crap

Not true. They pretty much match monos. Not all monos, but you
don't need to point high most of the time anyway. You can go faster
slightly off the wind and get there first.

2) It's uglier than sin

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

3) If your built-in generator takes a crap you're out of commission

Why's that?

4) It'll capsize and stay capsized and it can and will sink

True, true, and false. Cat's don't sink.

5) It's a pain in the butt to anchor

Easy as pie. I've never had trouble. You can ground it to work on
it. You don't need a huge anchor, chrome or otherwise, to hold,
since the weight isn't that great.

6) Two motors equals twice the headaches

And half the worries. If one dies, you've got a backup. We were
in Belize with no wind one day, one engine was sounding strange,
so without missing a beat, we turned it off, pulled it up, had a look,
found the problem, put it back down, and started it. Never missed
beat. Also had one die on me in the Sauslito channel right in front
of a brig that was trying to dock.. lot's of traffic behind. It was still
easy to motor out of the way, then we futzed with it and started it
up again. I ended up docking without it anyway, since it kept dying.
Not a big deal.

7) It's a better motorboat than a sailboat

It's a better motorboat than a mono if you need it to be.

8) It's way way way too expensive for what you get

It's expensive... damn true.

9) Did I say it's uglier than sin?

No.

10) Real cruisers will laugh at you and won't want to be
anywhere near you in an anchorage. It's a case of
"Oops! there goes the neighborhood!"

BS. They appreciate the accomodations and usually have
a million questions about how it sails and handles.

S.Simon

"NH_/)_" wrote in message
...
papers on the trust are taking longer than expected.
So while we wait, I am grabbing all knowledge that I can
from this and other groups, sites and such, so when the funds
come in, we know what we want. and the cat right now is
lurking top choice.

Reasons
1 will flip ...but does not sink
2 more room
3 sails in shallow water
4 more stable on the water

Down side

1 Costs are high
the one we are looking at costs 300K
we only have 140K right now so we have to
wait for the trust to come available.

2 mooring can be more difficult--finding room


NH_/)_


"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Cats are looking to be a nice choice in the 38-40ft range

You still haven't bought a boat?
You probably never will.

RB

And that will get him off big time!

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
And, I'll stuff fenders up your exhausts.

Harrrrhhhh!


"NH_/)_" wrote in message
...
Simon I'm going to take at least 40K and buy a nice twin motor
powerboat. Find where your mooring and get one right beside
you, wait until your asleep and let that baby rip those twin
engines theheee

NH_/)_

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
More downsides:

1) It won't go to weather worth a crap

2) It's uglier than sin

3) If your built-in generator takes a crap you're out of commission

4) It'll capsize and stay capsized and it can and will sink

5) It's a pain in the butt to anchor

6) Two motors equals twice the headaches

7) It's a better motorboat than a sailboat

8) It's way way way too expensive for what you get

9) Did I say it's uglier than sin?

10) Real cruisers will laugh at you and won't want to be
anywhere near you in an anchorage. It's a case of
"Oops! there goes the neighborhood!"

S.Simon

"NH_/)_" wrote in message
...
papers on the trust are taking longer than expected.
So while we wait, I am grabbing all knowledge that I can
from this and other groups, sites and such, so when the funds
come in, we know what we want. and the cat right now is
lurking top choice.

Reasons
1 will flip ...but does not sink
2 more room
3 sails in shallow water
4 more stable on the water

Down side

1 Costs are high
the one we are looking at costs 300K
we only have 140K right now so we have to
wait for the trust to come available.

2 mooring can be more difficult--finding room


NH_/)_


"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Cats are looking to be a nice choice in the 38-40ft range

You still haven't bought a boat?
You probably never will.

RB