"hk" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
The reason I started doing this is, as you pointed out, over time you
build up dust and the cooling becomes less effective.
This laptop is over 6 years old and I used to just leave it on 24/7.
I started shutting it down because I was concerned the cooling probably
wasn't as efficient as when it was new. But, so far, no problems.

Eisboch

How much dust ingestion are you going to get on a decently built laptop?


After 6 years, quite a bit as I found. I didn't take it completely
apart, but enough so to expose the CPU, heatsink, fans, etc.
This laptop has 4 miniature fans. I was surprised at how much dust had
accumulated.

Eisboch

So...blow the dust out every few months.

I cleaned what I could get to without taking the whole computer apart.
Someone here thoughtfully gave me a link to HP's procedure for doing so, I
read it and chickened out. I am real good at taking things apart. The
track record for putting it back together isn't as good.


Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
The reason I started doing this is, as you pointed out, over time you
build up dust and the cooling becomes less effective.
This laptop is over 6 years old and I used to just leave it on 24/7.
I started shutting it down because I was concerned the cooling probably
wasn't as efficient as when it was new. But, so far, no problems.

Eisboch
How much dust ingestion are you going to get on a decently built laptop?

After 6 years, quite a bit as I found. I didn't take it completely
apart, but enough so to expose the CPU, heatsink, fans, etc.
This laptop has 4 miniature fans. I was surprised at how much dust had
accumulated.

Eisboch
So...blow the dust out every few months.

I cleaned what I could get to without taking the whole computer apart.
Someone here thoughtfully gave me a link to HP's procedure for doing so, I
read it and chickened out. I am real good at taking things apart. The
track record for putting it back together isn't as good.


Eisboch




THere's a really good video on taking apart a MacBook Pro, which I have
watched. But I saw a tech at the mac store do it, and it wasn't
something I'd like to try. Too many really small screws.

"hk" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
The reason I started doing this is, as you pointed out, over time you
build up dust and the cooling becomes less effective.
This laptop is over 6 years old and I used to just leave it on 24/7.
I started shutting it down because I was concerned the cooling
probably wasn't as efficient as when it was new. But, so far, no
problems.

Eisboch
How much dust ingestion are you going to get on a decently built
laptop?

After 6 years, quite a bit as I found. I didn't take it completely
apart, but enough so to expose the CPU, heatsink, fans, etc.
This laptop has 4 miniature fans. I was surprised at how much dust
had accumulated.

Eisboch
So...blow the dust out every few months.

I cleaned what I could get to without taking the whole computer apart.
Someone here thoughtfully gave me a link to HP's procedure for doing so,
I read it and chickened out. I am real good at taking things apart.
The track record for putting it back together isn't as good.


Eisboch


THere's a really good video on taking apart a MacBook Pro, which I have
watched. But I saw a tech at the mac store do it, and it wasn't something
I'd like to try. Too many really small screws.


Exactly. Plus, on this HP, there are several little "insert pin and push
until cover releases".
I don't trust them.

Eisboch

hk wrote:



I didn't say "no" dust would get in, I implied it would be minimal. I
was at the Apple store a few weeks ago and watched a tech replace a fan
in a Macbook pro. He said the laptop was about a year old. When he
removed all the screws and popped it open, I was amazed by how clean it
was inside. No visible dust, not even on the fan.


I need to visit the apple stores. I had no idea they serviced the
computers where everyone can watch them work. Sounds like a fun way to
spend the day.

Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
The reason I started doing this is, as you pointed out, over time you
build up dust and the cooling becomes less effective.
This laptop is over 6 years old and I used to just leave it on 24/7. I
started shutting it down because I was concerned the cooling probably
wasn't as efficient as when it was new. But, so far, no problems.

Eisboch

How much dust ingestion are you going to get on a decently built laptop?


After 6 years, quite a bit as I found. I didn't take it completely apart,
but enough so to expose the CPU, heatsink, fans, etc.
This laptop has 4 miniature fans. I was surprised at how much dust had
accumulated.

Eisboch



Don't try to being facts into this discussion. Did I tell you about the
time I was at the Apple store. The tech was pulling apart a computer on
the retail floor, and it had next to no dust. Laptops are not used in
dusty environments, so they don't ingest as much dust as regular
computers. I think it has something to do with Newton's 3rd law.

"hk" wrote in message
...
D.Duck wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"D.Duck" wrote in message
...
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
Thought I might offer this, even though I don't understand it, in
case anyone else has a similar issue.

If you use hibernate mode the machine completely powers itself time
after a user selected period of time. This minimizes dust ingestion.
The recovery time on our laptop is less than 15 seconds after touching
the power button.

HTH.

I experimented with both "sleep" and "hibernate" modes. Frankly, as
far as power usage is concerned, I don't see any difference.
In both, the display, hard drive and cooling fans stop operating.

The reason I started doing this is, as you pointed out, over time you
build up dust and the cooling becomes less effective.
This laptop is over 6 years old and I used to just leave it on 24/7.
I started shutting it down because I was concerned the cooling probably
wasn't as efficient as when it was new. But, so far, no problems.

Eisboch

How much dust ingestion are you going to get on a decently built laptop?

Now, a desktop, especially a homebrew desktop, is different. I just open
up the panels on mine and use canned air to blow the dust out every
couple of months.

Every laptop I've looked at have a grill over the area where the fan in
sucking in fresh air. What is decently built that is different from that
design?

I didn't say "no" dust would get in, I implied it would be minimal. I was
at the Apple store a few weeks ago and watched a tech replace a fan in a
Macbook pro. He said the laptop was about a year old. When he removed all
the screws and popped it open, I was amazed by how clean it was inside. No
visible dust, not even on the fan.

Do you have no idea of the number of ON hours or the environment the machine
was operating in? I doubt if Apple uses any *magic* technique to keep their
laptops from ingesting dust.

wrote in message
t...
On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:03:20 -0400, Eisboch wrote:


I experimented with both "sleep" and "hibernate" modes. Frankly, as
far as power usage is concerned, I don't see any difference. In both,
the display, hard drive and cooling fans stop operating.

There is a little more power being used in sleep mode as it needs to keep
power going to memory. Eventually, the batteries will drain, and it will
switch to hibernate mode. Not a concern for a desktop, but it is of
minor concern for a laptop.

Personally, I keep my desktops running 24/7, but not my laptops. I don't
really think they were built with the necessary cooling. I did manage to
fry an old Thinkpad. A capacitor melted. It might not have been
inadequate cooling, as there were a bunch of defective capacitors out
there when the Thinkpad was made.

They RAM is powered during *hibernate* also.

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:48:28 -0400, "D.Duck" wrote:


wrote in message
et...
On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:03:20 -0400, Eisboch wrote:


I experimented with both "sleep" and "hibernate" modes. Frankly, as
far as power usage is concerned, I don't see any difference. In both,
the display, hard drive and cooling fans stop operating.

There is a little more power being used in sleep mode as it needs to keep
power going to memory. Eventually, the batteries will drain, and it will
switch to hibernate mode. Not a concern for a desktop, but it is of
minor concern for a laptop.

Personally, I keep my desktops running 24/7, but not my laptops. I don't
really think they were built with the necessary cooling. I did manage to
fry an old Thinkpad. A capacitor melted. It might not have been
inadequate cooling, as there were a bunch of defective capacitors out
there when the Thinkpad was made.

They RAM is powered during *hibernate* also.

I think hibernate writes RAM to disk then restores on awakening.
Also mapped the video to disk.
IBM pioneered this on the PS/1, which I had.
Called it "Rapid Resume."
Pretty slick. You could have a few windows open - think that about
Win 3.1 time - power off, and everything would write to disk.
It would restore as it was when powered back on, and faster too, since
it was writing from contiguous disk space to RAM and video instead
of disk seeking for all the app components.
The Rapid Resume software was dependent on proprietary IBM internals
however, and didn't last long as PC's were rapidly moving to multi-mfg
components.
My PS/1 was the Consultant, a full tower, and except for my original
IBM PC (8088) I've always built the big towers.
You should see the case on this sucker. Outside of a server-on-wheels
case, this is the biggest I could find.
Had it shipped on a semi-truck, then transferred to a smaller truck to
get to my house. Paid UPS for that job.
Don't really understand those laptops, though I carted a laptop from
work for years. Hated using that thing unless it was hooked to the
workstation on my work desk, then I didn't notice it.
It was a brand new IBM and lasted only a couple years before the HD
crashed and I had to get "redeployed." Major PITA.
I guess for work or cruising a laptop is necessary, but when I go on
vacation for up to 3 weeks I manage to go cold turkey on computers.
BTW, I use a set of soft bristled brushes and a jury rigged small
diameter tube taped to a vacuum nozzle for cleaning computer
internals. The flex hose used for blowing up air mattresses works
well. All the canned air I've bought is too wet.
Besides, it ****es me off to buy canned air. It just does.

--Vic

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 04:48:28 -0400, "D.Duck" wrote:


wrote in message
et...
On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:03:20 -0400, Eisboch wrote:


I experimented with both "sleep" and "hibernate" modes. Frankly, as
far as power usage is concerned, I don't see any difference. In both,
the display, hard drive and cooling fans stop operating.

There is a little more power being used in sleep mode as it needs to keep
power going to memory. Eventually, the batteries will drain, and it will
switch to hibernate mode. Not a concern for a desktop, but it is of
minor concern for a laptop.

Personally, I keep my desktops running 24/7, but not my laptops. I don't
really think they were built with the necessary cooling. I did manage to
fry an old Thinkpad. A capacitor melted. It might not have been
inadequate cooling, as there were a bunch of defective capacitors out
there when the Thinkpad was made.

They RAM is powered during *hibernate* also.

"They"? You some kind of RAMophobe?

Figures. :)

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:03:20 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"D.Duck" wrote in message
m...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

Thought I might offer this, even though I don't understand it, in case
anyone else has a similar issue.


If you use hibernate mode the machine completely powers itself time after
a user selected period of time. This minimizes dust ingestion. The
recovery time on our laptop is less than 15 seconds after touching the
power button.

HTH.

I experimented with both "sleep" and "hibernate" modes. Frankly, as far as
power usage is concerned, I don't see any difference.
In both, the display, hard drive and cooling fans stop operating.

The reason I started doing this is, as you pointed out, over time you build
up dust and the cooling becomes less effective.
This laptop is over 6 years old and I used to just leave it on 24/7. I
started shutting it down because I was concerned the cooling probably wasn't
as efficient as when it was new. But, so far, no problems.

Murphy's 32nd Law of Computer Operations:

Computers never work the way they are supposed to. Especially when
nothing is wrong with them.