On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 10:27:11 -0400, DownTime
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Nope - Murphy's 21st Law of Computer Operations:

The only thing worse than an end-user without a clue is an end-user
who has a clue - usually the wrong one.

I propose we amend this to create a 21st Law, Part A:

"The only thing worse that an end-user without a clue is an end-user who
has a screwdriver and the ambition to use it."

Duly noted. :)

wrote:
On Aug 25, 10:27 am, DownTime wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Nope - Murphy's 21st Law of Computer Operations:
The only thing worse than an end-user without a clue is an end-user
who has a clue - usually the wrong one.
I propose we amend this to create a 21st Law, Part A:

"The only thing worse that an end-user without a clue is an end-user who
has a screwdriver and the ambition to use it."

That would be the engineer, right?

end-user = a wanna-be engineer.

On Aug 25, 10:39*am, DownTime wrote:
wrote:
On Aug 25, 10:27 am, DownTime wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Nope - Murphy's 21st Law of Computer Operations:
The only thing worse than an end-user without a clue is an end-user
who has a clue - usually the wrong one.
I propose we amend this to create a 21st Law, Part A:

"The only thing worse that an end-user without a clue is an end-user who
has a screwdriver and the ambition to use it."

That would be the engineer, right?

end-user = a wanna-be engineer.

I think you got that backwards.. and forgot the technition that makes
the damn thing actually work

Oh, oh, my spell checker is not working,, could be trouble

wrote:
On Aug 25, 10:39 am, DownTime wrote:
wrote:
On Aug 25, 10:27 am, DownTime wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Nope - Murphy's 21st Law of Computer Operations:
The only thing worse than an end-user without a clue is an end-user
who has a clue - usually the wrong one.
I propose we amend this to create a 21st Law, Part A:
"The only thing worse that an end-user without a clue is an end-user who
has a screwdriver and the ambition to use it."
That would be the engineer, right?
end-user = a wanna-be engineer.

I think you got that backwards.. and forgot the technition that makes
the damn thing actually work

Oh, oh, my spell checker is not working,, could be trouble

Hmmm, maybe, but it depends on your perspective. After 20+ years in the
SW industry, it seems most end-users want to believe think they know
better than the engineers. Not to say all, but some.

I do have the utmost respect for those who can make all these computer
thingies actually do what they do. In graduate school, when I took an
advanced networking class, I was simply amazed at all that goes on under
the covers to allow us to communicate and the components to talk to each
other. To this day, I keep reminding myself when I think of the details,
"I am amazed any of this really works".

And when my insomnia sets in, I think back to networking hashing
routines, and that does it for me.

"hk" wrote in message
. ..
D.Duck wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
D.Duck wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"D.Duck" wrote in message
...
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
Thought I might offer this, even though I don't understand it, in
case anyone else has a similar issue.

If you use hibernate mode the machine completely powers itself time
after a user selected period of time. This minimizes dust
ingestion. The recovery time on our laptop is less than 15 seconds
after touching the power button.

HTH.

I experimented with both "sleep" and "hibernate" modes. Frankly, as
far as power usage is concerned, I don't see any difference.
In both, the display, hard drive and cooling fans stop operating.

The reason I started doing this is, as you pointed out, over time you
build up dust and the cooling becomes less effective.
This laptop is over 6 years old and I used to just leave it on 24/7.
I started shutting it down because I was concerned the cooling
probably wasn't as efficient as when it was new. But, so far, no
problems.

Eisboch
How much dust ingestion are you going to get on a decently built
laptop?

Now, a desktop, especially a homebrew desktop, is different. I just
open up the panels on mine and use canned air to blow the dust out
every couple of months.
Every laptop I've looked at have a grill over the area where the fan in
sucking in fresh air. What is decently built that is different from
that design?
I didn't say "no" dust would get in, I implied it would be minimal. I
was at the Apple store a few weeks ago and watched a tech replace a fan
in a Macbook pro. He said the laptop was about a year old. When he
removed all the screws and popped it open, I was amazed by how clean it
was inside. No visible dust, not even on the fan.

Do you have no idea of the number of ON hours or the environment the
machine was operating in? I doubt if Apple uses any *magic* technique to
keep their laptops from ingesting dust.

Quack, quack, quack

Informative answer.

Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
The reason I started doing this is, as you pointed out, over time you
build up dust and the cooling becomes less effective.
This laptop is over 6 years old and I used to just leave it on 24/7.
I started shutting it down because I was concerned the cooling
probably wasn't as efficient as when it was new. But, so far, no
problems.

Eisboch
How much dust ingestion are you going to get on a decently built
laptop?

After 6 years, quite a bit as I found. I didn't take it completely
apart, but enough so to expose the CPU, heatsink, fans, etc.
This laptop has 4 miniature fans. I was surprised at how much dust
had accumulated.

Eisboch
So...blow the dust out every few months.
I cleaned what I could get to without taking the whole computer apart.
Someone here thoughtfully gave me a link to HP's procedure for doing so,
I read it and chickened out. I am real good at taking things apart.
The track record for putting it back together isn't as good.


Eisboch

THere's a really good video on taking apart a MacBook Pro, which I have
watched. But I saw a tech at the mac store do it, and it wasn't something
I'd like to try. Too many really small screws.


Exactly. Plus, on this HP, there are several little "insert pin and push
until cover releases".
I don't trust them.

Eisboch



Do you have fat, WAFA, fingers?

I use a vacuum, not a blower, unless I have the case open. The same
should work well with a laptop. Our laptops aren't on 24/7 so they
don't have the chance to accumulate that kind of dust.

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 05:12:18 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Besides, it ****es me off to buy canned air. It just does

Buy an air compresor.

Air compressors "make" and store water. That's why they have drains on
their tank(s). They also can produce a lot of air so a regulator would
be required to keep that high pressure from damaging your computer.

C'mon... it's typical of harry when he's backed into a corner. Ignore the
question, and try to insult/incite... He's certainly predictable, that's fer
sure.

--Mike

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"hk" wrote in message
. ..
D.Duck wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
D.Duck wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"D.Duck" wrote in message
...
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
Thought I might offer this, even though I don't understand it, in
case anyone else has a similar issue.

If you use hibernate mode the machine completely powers itself time
after a user selected period of time. This minimizes dust
ingestion. The recovery time on our laptop is less than 15 seconds
after touching the power button.

HTH.

I experimented with both "sleep" and "hibernate" modes. Frankly,
as far as power usage is concerned, I don't see any difference.
In both, the display, hard drive and cooling fans stop operating.

The reason I started doing this is, as you pointed out, over time
you build up dust and the cooling becomes less effective.
This laptop is over 6 years old and I used to just leave it on 24/7.
I started shutting it down because I was concerned the cooling
probably wasn't as efficient as when it was new. But, so far, no
problems.

Eisboch
How much dust ingestion are you going to get on a decently built
laptop?

Now, a desktop, especially a homebrew desktop, is different. I just
open up the panels on mine and use canned air to blow the dust out
every couple of months.
Every laptop I've looked at have a grill over the area where the fan
in sucking in fresh air. What is decently built that is different
from that design?
I didn't say "no" dust would get in, I implied it would be minimal. I
was at the Apple store a few weeks ago and watched a tech replace a fan
in a Macbook pro. He said the laptop was about a year old. When he
removed all the screws and popped it open, I was amazed by how clean it
was inside. No visible dust, not even on the fan.

Do you have no idea of the number of ON hours or the environment the
machine was operating in? I doubt if Apple uses any *magic* technique
to keep their laptops from ingesting dust.

Quack, quack, quack

Informative answer.

"DK" wrote in message
...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 05:12:18 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Besides, it ****es me off to buy canned air. It just does

Buy an air compresor.

Air compressors "make" and store water. That's why they have drains on
their tank(s). They also can produce a lot of air so a regulator would be
required to keep that high pressure from damaging your computer.

My compressor has both a regulator and a water trap. I just normally use
the shop vac. Same thing I have used for 45 years to clean out computers.
In the old days of mainframes we had to vacuum out the paper dust, and
normally every couple of months used the blow function to clean the card
cages in the tape drives.