"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
...
Even those of us who usually burn B20 are still using 80% dino-diesel.
Most of the crude oil the refiners use to create gasoline and diesel
comes from places that are explicitly unfriendly to the US, (and
according to the following article the Bush Administration is
concerned that some of those sources are bankrolling huge amounts of
capital for an eventual destabilizing financial assualt on the US
economy. It's not too late for Russia or China to win the final battle
in the Cold War).

However, also acording to the following article there is a source for
crude oil that takes a very enlightened approach to using its oil
wealth. The citizens of this country earn a per capita income (not
"family income", but per capita) of $65,509 per year, spend a maximum
of $200 per yar for health care, are in better physical shape and
enjoy a longer life expectancy than most Americans.

I hope that the next time I buy fuel, the crude oil comes from Norway.
(Probably won't, though).


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...=1&cs et=true

You don't get much health care for 200 dollars per year. Laundering it
through the government or paying for it with oil revenue instead of
distributing the revenue to the people doesn't mean you aren't spending
it. What is the per capita spending on health care?

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 12:03:43 -0500, HK penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

Chuck Gould wrote:
Even those of us who usually burn B20 are still using 80% dino-diesel.
Most of the crude oil the refiners use to create gasoline and diesel
comes from places that are explicitly unfriendly to the US, (and
according to the following article the Bush Administration is
concerned that some of those sources are bankrolling huge amounts of
capital for an eventual destabilizing financial assualt on the US
economy. It's not too late for Russia or China to win the final battle
in the Cold War).

However, also acording to the following article there is a source for
crude oil that takes a very enlightened approach to using its oil
wealth. The citizens of this country earn a per capita income (not
"family income", but per capita) of $65,509 per year, spend a maximum
of $200 per yar for health care, are in better physical shape and
enjoy a longer life expectancy than most Americans.

I hope that the next time I buy fuel, the crude oil comes from Norway.
(Probably won't, though).


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...=1&cs et=true


Norway is far more advanced in most ways than the United States.

May be... but I don't think I would be bothering to post here if I
lived there. Regular gas is $8.98/gal there. I don't know what I would
do as a hobby.... but, I'm pretty sure boating would be out of reach.

I'd probably own a bigger boat in Venezuela..... $.12/gal.


That's if Hugo lets you "own" a boat.

HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..
I was at a marina today, talking to a friend heading out for some
feeeshing, and he filled up at $3.65 a gallon. The pump operator said
he had a call from his supplier, who told him the wholesale price was
probably going to go up another 10-15 cents by Monday.


My goodness. We are just about up to what we paid in Europe 30 years
ago.

Eisboch



If you are an average income American, the pump prices are killing your
family's budget.

Remove the taxes on gasoline, that will bring the price back down to
about $2.00 per gallon.

HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..
I was at a marina today, talking to a friend heading out for some
feeeshing, and he filled up at $3.65 a gallon. The pump operator
said he had a call from his supplier, who told him the wholesale
price was probably going to go up another 10-15 cents by Monday.

My goodness. We are just about up to what we paid in Europe 30
years ago.

Eisboch

If you are an average income American, the pump prices are killing
your family's budget.

I see. So, you advocate lower fuel prices in the USA .....?

Why?

Eisboch



The absence of general economic democracy in this country no longer is
hidden by a rising standard of living for workers, a reduction in the
gap between rich and poor, and the ameliorative effects of social
welfare programs. We have seen the deranged become normal.

Don't you have guests at your hose for Thanksgiving?

On Nov 21, 4:58�pm, "Del Cecchi"
wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

...



Even those of us who usually burn B20 are still using 80% dino-diesel.
Most of the crude oil the refiners use to create gasoline and diesel
comes from places that are explicitly unfriendly to the US, (and
according to the following article the Bush Administration is
concerned that some of those sources are bankrolling huge amounts of
capital for an eventual destabilizing financial assualt on the US
economy. It's not too late for Russia or China to win the final battle
in the Cold War).

However, also acording to the following article there is a source for
crude oil that takes a very enlightened approach to using its oil
wealth. The citizens of this country earn a per capita income (not
"family income", but per capita) of $65,509 per year, spend a maximum
of $200 per yar for health care, are in better physical shape and
enjoy a longer life expectancy than most Americans.

I hope that the next time I buy fuel, the crude oil comes from Norway.
(Probably won't, though).

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...ay_hundley_bdn...

You don't get much health care for 200 dollars per year. �Laundering it
through the government or paying for it with oil revenue instead of
distributing the revenue to the people doesn't mean you aren't spending
it. �What is the per capita spending on health care?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The rest of the health care is paid for with tax dollars. As Bill P
posted above, the Norwegians make enough money to pay the higher taxes
and still have just a whisker more per-capita "spending money" than
the average US resident.

On Nov 21, 4:34�pm, John H. wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 17:59:18 -0600, Vic Smith





wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 18:07:03 -0500, HK wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
om...
I was at a marina today, talking to a friend heading out for some
feeeshing, and he filled up at $3.65 a gallon. The pump operator said he
had a call from his supplier, who told him the wholesale price was
probably going to go up another 10-15 cents by Monday.

My goodness. �We are just about up to what we paid in Europe 30 years ago.

Eisboch

If you are an average income American, the pump prices are killing your
family's budget.

I worked PT at UPS washing/fueling trucks while I attended college.
In 1976 I was making 10 bucks an hour. �The package loaders/unloaders
were making about 11 bucks, but had a tougher job aside from weather.
Gas - and everything else - was a lot cheaper in 1976.
I was paying a mortgage, had 3 kids and my wife was a housewife, home
with the kids.
With about 165 bucks UPS takehome pay and another 100 from the GI
Bill, we were doing fine.
Went on the UPS website today.
Package guys are now making 8.50 - 9.00 an hour.
Which is a couple bucks less than in 1976.
Progress.

--Vic

And they're probably illegal immigrants. Why should anyone pay more when
the supply is everywhere? Some day someone will figure that out.
--
John H- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And that's exactly why their will never be any serious effort made to
curtail illegal immigration into the US. Even the companies that don't
hire the illegal immigrants benefit from the fact that they lower the
wage bar for all jobs. Skilled construction workers are reduced to $15-
$20 an hour these days, and many of these people have skills capable
of producing high economic value and have taken many years to refine
and perfect them. You can't buy even a run down shack and drive a
decent used car for $30k a year, but who's going to pay more when some
guy who just swam across the border will work for that price and who
may have equally well-developed skills?

About the only time they really round up the illegals hereabouts is if
the employer himself decides to turn them in. The normal practice is
to schedule the raid for a couple of hours before the paychecks are
supposed to passed out on Friday afternoon...... that brings the
actual cost of labor down to $ZERO. Pretty tough to compete with
that. :-(

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 17:41:14 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Nov 21, 4:58?pm, "Del Cecchi"
wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

...



Even those of us who usually burn B20 are still using 80% dino-diesel.
Most of the crude oil the refiners use to create gasoline and diesel
comes from places that are explicitly unfriendly to the US, (and
according to the following article the Bush Administration is
concerned that some of those sources are bankrolling huge amounts of
capital for an eventual destabilizing financial assualt on the US
economy. It's not too late for Russia or China to win the final battle
in the Cold War).

However, also acording to the following article there is a source for
crude oil that takes a very enlightened approach to using its oil
wealth. The citizens of this country earn a per capita income (not
"family income", but per capita) of $65,509 per year, spend a maximum
of $200 per yar for health care, are in better physical shape and
enjoy a longer life expectancy than most Americans.

I hope that the next time I buy fuel, the crude oil comes from Norway.
(Probably won't, though).

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...ay_hundley_bdn...

You don't get much health care for 200 dollars per year. ?Laundering it
through the government or paying for it with oil revenue instead of
distributing the revenue to the people doesn't mean you aren't spending
it. ?What is the per capita spending on health care?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The rest of the health care is paid for with tax dollars. As Bill P
posted above, the Norwegians make enough money to pay the higher taxes
and still have just a whisker more per-capita "spending money" than
the average US resident.

Because they had enough sense to drill for oil in their back yard. Don't
forget that. They've purposely destroyed their entire environment just so
their people could live like kings and queens.
--
John H

On Nov 21, 5:55�pm, John H. wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 17:41:14 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould





wrote:
On Nov 21, 4:58?pm, "Del Cecchi"
wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

...

Even those of us who usually burn B20 are still using 80% dino-diesel..
Most of the crude oil the refiners use to create gasoline and diesel
comes from places that are explicitly unfriendly to the US, (and
according to the following article the Bush Administration is
concerned that some of those sources are bankrolling huge amounts of
capital for an eventual destabilizing financial assualt on the US
economy. It's not too late for Russia or China to win the final battle
in the Cold War).

However, also acording to the following article there is a source for
crude oil that takes a very enlightened approach to using its oil
wealth. The citizens of this country earn a per capita income (not
"family income", but per capita) of $65,509 per year, spend a maximum
of $200 per yar for health care, are in better physical shape and
enjoy a longer life expectancy than most Americans.

I hope that the next time I buy fuel, the crude oil comes from Norway..
(Probably won't, though).

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...ay_hundley_bdn....

You don't get much health care for 200 dollars per year. ?Laundering it
through the government or paying for it with oil revenue instead of
distributing the revenue to the people doesn't mean you aren't spending
it. ?What is the per capita spending on health care?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The rest of the health care is paid for with tax dollars. As Bill P
posted above, the Norwegians make enough money to pay the higher taxes
and still have just a whisker more per-capita "spending money" than
the average US resident.

Because they had enough sense to drill for oil in their back yard. Don't
forget that. They've purposely destroyed their entire environment just so
their people could live like kings and queens.
--
John H- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

John, we drilled for oil in our own backyard decades ago. Found a lot
of it, too. That cheap and abundant oil fostered some incredible
economic prosperity in this country for many decades. It's no longer
cheap or abundant. There is more oil that could be drilled, but we
have picked all the low-hanging fruit.

At some point we need to evaluate the trade-offs between oil and other
valid considerations. For instance, we know there is enough oil in the
Artic National Wildlife Refuge to supply all of this nation's oil
requirements for about 90 days (if we were getting oil from no other
source at the same time). There is a legitimate question to consider;
is the limited amount of oil to be recovered worth despoiling the
irreplaceable ANWR? People hold differing opinions.

Where should we drill? How about Yellowstone National Park?
Maybe we should line the bottom of the Grand Canyon with derricks?
How about the vacant lot across the street from your house, or your
neighborhood playground.....good spots for oil rigs?

The secret to future prosperity in the US does not (IMO) rest in
finding additional fuel to get another decade or two out of what can
only be a transitional technology (petro-fueled internal combution
engines). We should be working non-stop to be the *first*
technologically adept society to leave the IC engine behind for
good.That's what we did when we gave up on the steam engine 75-80
years ago, and look how we flourished for a while. I wonder if, back
then, lots of people were campaigning to mine more coal to provide a
constant supply of cheap fuel for steam engines?

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 17:21:21 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:

I'd probably own a bigger boat in Venezuela..... $.12/gal.

Fuel is not a trivial cost with a bigger boat but it is a relatively
low percentage of overall expenses.

John H. wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 17:28:13 -0500, HK wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 16:57:58 -0500, "Bill Kearney"
wkearney-99@hot-mail-com wrote:

...and get smart enough to drill for the oil in our back yard, before
China
does.
Ah, no. Better to drain the foreign reserves dry before hitting our own.
We know what we've got here and when the crunch comes it'd be far better to
have our own to fall back on while the rest of the world panics.
OK, as long as we quit making bull**** posts like this:

"Norway has what the sick world needs, a metanoia, a conversion, a
reappraisal of our whole attitude towards life, accompanied by a
fundamental change in the climate in which people and things are
appraised. We need to radically change our culture to reject the
dehumanization of man so implicit in what "drives" our society in this
country today."

As if you had even the slightest idea what I meant.

Not much in the way of intellectual prowess is needed to figure out what
you mean, Harry.


Oh, I dunno. I was intellectual enough to figure out that the Army was a
dumb deal for a career.