On Nov 21, 10:38�am, "BillP" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

...





Even those of us who usually burn B20 are still using 80% dino-diesel.
Most of the crude oil the refiners use to create gasoline and diesel
comes from places that are explicitly unfriendly to the US, (and
according to the following article the Bush Administration is
concerned that some of those sources are bankrolling huge amounts of
capital for an eventual destabilizing financial assualt on the US
economy. It's not too late for Russia or China to win the final battle
in the Cold War).

However, also acording to the following article there is a source for
crude oil that takes a very enlightened approach to using its oil
wealth. The citizens of this country earn a per capita income (not
"family income", but per capita) of $65,509 per year, spend a maximum
of $200 per yar for health care, are in better physical shape and
enjoy a longer life expectancy than most Americans.

I hope that the next time I buy fuel, the crude oil comes from Norway.
(Probably won't, though).

In real purchasing power per capita (PPP) Norway is $42,364 as compared to
the US at $41,399 (2005)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_capita_income- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Very good research!

So my supposition that the generally higher taxes collected from
generally higher incomes in Norway still leave a decent amount of net
spendable income in place appears to be well founded.

Meanwhile, the Norwegians enjoy $200 per year health care expenses,
public retirement villages in warm weather climates, and other social
advantages we choose not to fund.

To repeat: I'm happy to live in the US, but I'd rather send my fuel
money to Norway than to the Arabs, the Chinese, or the Russians.

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
...
On Nov 21, 10:38?am, "BillP" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

...





Even those of us who usually burn B20 are still using 80% dino-diesel.
Most of the crude oil the refiners use to create gasoline and diesel
comes from places that are explicitly unfriendly to the US, (and
according to the following article the Bush Administration is
concerned that some of those sources are bankrolling huge amounts of
capital for an eventual destabilizing financial assualt on the US
economy. It's not too late for Russia or China to win the final battle
in the Cold War).

However, also acording to the following article there is a source for
crude oil that takes a very enlightened approach to using its oil
wealth. The citizens of this country earn a per capita income (not
"family income", but per capita) of $65,509 per year, spend a maximum
of $200 per yar for health care, are in better physical shape and
enjoy a longer life expectancy than most Americans.

I hope that the next time I buy fuel, the crude oil comes from Norway.
(Probably won't, though).

In real purchasing power per capita (PPP) Norway is $42,364 as compared to
the US at $41,399 (2005)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_capita_income- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Very good research!

So my supposition that the generally higher taxes collected from
generally higher incomes in Norway still leave a decent amount of net
spendable income in place appears to be well founded.

Meanwhile, the Norwegians enjoy $200 per year health care expenses,
public retirement villages in warm weather climates, and other social
advantages we choose not to fund.

To repeat: I'm happy to live in the US, but I'd rather send my fuel
money to Norway than to the Arabs, the Chinese, or the Russians.


But, they only have about 4.4 million people (low population density), not a
lot of illegal immigrants, and lots of natural resources. About what we had
50 years ago.

CalifBill wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
...
On Nov 21, 10:38?am, "BillP" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

...





Even those of us who usually burn B20 are still using 80% dino-diesel.
Most of the crude oil the refiners use to create gasoline and diesel
comes from places that are explicitly unfriendly to the US, (and
according to the following article the Bush Administration is
concerned that some of those sources are bankrolling huge amounts of
capital for an eventual destabilizing financial assualt on the US
economy. It's not too late for Russia or China to win the final battle
in the Cold War).
However, also acording to the following article there is a source for
crude oil that takes a very enlightened approach to using its oil
wealth. The citizens of this country earn a per capita income (not
"family income", but per capita) of $65,509 per year, spend a maximum
of $200 per yar for health care, are in better physical shape and
enjoy a longer life expectancy than most Americans.
I hope that the next time I buy fuel, the crude oil comes from Norway.
(Probably won't, though).
In real purchasing power per capita (PPP) Norway is $42,364 as compared to
the US at $41,399 (2005)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_capita_income- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Very good research!

So my supposition that the generally higher taxes collected from
generally higher incomes in Norway still leave a decent amount of net
spendable income in place appears to be well founded.

Meanwhile, the Norwegians enjoy $200 per year health care expenses,
public retirement villages in warm weather climates, and other social
advantages we choose not to fund.

To repeat: I'm happy to live in the US, but I'd rather send my fuel
money to Norway than to the Arabs, the Chinese, or the Russians.


But, they only have about 4.4 million people (low population density), not a
lot of illegal immigrants, and lots of natural resources. About what we had
50 years ago.



My Norwegian friends, all of whom are working men with reasonable but
not tremendous incomes, and their families live very well. If it weren't
for the climate and the language barrier (Norwegian is a difficult
language to learn, let alone pronounce), it would be on the list of my
"bug out" countries.

"HK" wrote in message
...



My Norwegian friends, all of whom are working men with reasonable but not
tremendous incomes, and their families live very well. If it weren't for
the climate and the language barrier (Norwegian is a difficult language to
learn, let alone pronounce), it would be on the list of my "bug out"
countries.


Food for thought. If anyone attacked the US, we'd receive the fallout a
couple days later.
My wife's father came over from Norway during WW2... I wonder if that would
help us slip in..

"HK" wrote in message
...
CalifBill wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
...
On Nov 21, 10:38?am, "BillP" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

...





Even those of us who usually burn B20 are still using 80% dino-diesel.
Most of the crude oil the refiners use to create gasoline and diesel
comes from places that are explicitly unfriendly to the US, (and
according to the following article the Bush Administration is
concerned that some of those sources are bankrolling huge amounts of
capital for an eventual destabilizing financial assualt on the US
economy. It's not too late for Russia or China to win the final battle
in the Cold War).
However, also acording to the following article there is a source for
crude oil that takes a very enlightened approach to using its oil
wealth. The citizens of this country earn a per capita income (not
"family income", but per capita) of $65,509 per year, spend a maximum
of $200 per yar for health care, are in better physical shape and
enjoy a longer life expectancy than most Americans.
I hope that the next time I buy fuel, the crude oil comes from Norway.
(Probably won't, though).
In real purchasing power per capita (PPP) Norway is $42,364 as compared
to
the US at $41,399 (2005)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_capita_income- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Very good research!

So my supposition that the generally higher taxes collected from
generally higher incomes in Norway still leave a decent amount of net
spendable income in place appears to be well founded.

Meanwhile, the Norwegians enjoy $200 per year health care expenses,
public retirement villages in warm weather climates, and other social
advantages we choose not to fund.

To repeat: I'm happy to live in the US, but I'd rather send my fuel
money to Norway than to the Arabs, the Chinese, or the Russians.


But, they only have about 4.4 million people (low population density),
not a lot of illegal immigrants, and lots of natural resources. About
what we had 50 years ago.

My Norwegian friends, all of whom are working men with reasonable but not
tremendous incomes, and their families live very well. If it weren't for
the climate and the language barrier (Norwegian is a difficult language to
learn, let alone pronounce), it would be on the list of my "bug out"
countries.

You won't want to be there after the oil runs out (it's already peaked).

"HK" wrote in message
...
CalifBill wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
...
On Nov 21, 10:38?am, "BillP" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

...





Even those of us who usually burn B20 are still using 80% dino-diesel.
Most of the crude oil the refiners use to create gasoline and diesel
comes from places that are explicitly unfriendly to the US, (and
according to the following article the Bush Administration is
concerned that some of those sources are bankrolling huge amounts of
capital for an eventual destabilizing financial assualt on the US
economy. It's not too late for Russia or China to win the final battle
in the Cold War).
However, also acording to the following article there is a source for
crude oil that takes a very enlightened approach to using its oil
wealth. The citizens of this country earn a per capita income (not
"family income", but per capita) of $65,509 per year, spend a maximum
of $200 per yar for health care, are in better physical shape and
enjoy a longer life expectancy than most Americans.
I hope that the next time I buy fuel, the crude oil comes from Norway.
(Probably won't, though).
In real purchasing power per capita (PPP) Norway is $42,364 as compared
to
the US at $41,399 (2005)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_capita_income- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Very good research!

So my supposition that the generally higher taxes collected from
generally higher incomes in Norway still leave a decent amount of net
spendable income in place appears to be well founded.

Meanwhile, the Norwegians enjoy $200 per year health care expenses,
public retirement villages in warm weather climates, and other social
advantages we choose not to fund.

To repeat: I'm happy to live in the US, but I'd rather send my fuel
money to Norway than to the Arabs, the Chinese, or the Russians.


But, they only have about 4.4 million people (low population density),
not a lot of illegal immigrants, and lots of natural resources. About
what we had 50 years ago.

My Norwegian friends, all of whom are working men with reasonable but not
tremendous incomes, and their families live very well. If it weren't for
the climate and the language barrier (Norwegian is a difficult language to
learn, let alone pronounce), it would be on the list of my "bug out"
countries.

What does that have to do about my statement?

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
...
Even those of us who usually burn B20 are still using 80% dino-diesel.
Most of the crude oil the refiners use to create gasoline and diesel
comes from places that are explicitly unfriendly to the US, (and
according to the following article the Bush Administration is
concerned that some of those sources are bankrolling huge amounts of
capital for an eventual destabilizing financial assualt on the US
economy. It's not too late for Russia or China to win the final battle
in the Cold War).

However, also acording to the following article there is a source for
crude oil that takes a very enlightened approach to using its oil
wealth. The citizens of this country earn a per capita income (not
"family income", but per capita) of $65,509 per year, spend a maximum
of $200 per yar for health care, are in better physical shape and
enjoy a longer life expectancy than most Americans.

I hope that the next time I buy fuel, the crude oil comes from Norway.
(Probably won't, though).


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...=1&cs et=true

You don't get much health care for 200 dollars per year. Laundering it
through the government or paying for it with oil revenue instead of
distributing the revenue to the people doesn't mean you aren't spending
it. What is the per capita spending on health care?

On Nov 21, 4:58�pm, "Del Cecchi"
wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

...



Even those of us who usually burn B20 are still using 80% dino-diesel.
Most of the crude oil the refiners use to create gasoline and diesel
comes from places that are explicitly unfriendly to the US, (and
according to the following article the Bush Administration is
concerned that some of those sources are bankrolling huge amounts of
capital for an eventual destabilizing financial assualt on the US
economy. It's not too late for Russia or China to win the final battle
in the Cold War).

However, also acording to the following article there is a source for
crude oil that takes a very enlightened approach to using its oil
wealth. The citizens of this country earn a per capita income (not
"family income", but per capita) of $65,509 per year, spend a maximum
of $200 per yar for health care, are in better physical shape and
enjoy a longer life expectancy than most Americans.

I hope that the next time I buy fuel, the crude oil comes from Norway.
(Probably won't, though).

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...ay_hundley_bdn...

You don't get much health care for 200 dollars per year. �Laundering it
through the government or paying for it with oil revenue instead of
distributing the revenue to the people doesn't mean you aren't spending
it. �What is the per capita spending on health care?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The rest of the health care is paid for with tax dollars. As Bill P
posted above, the Norwegians make enough money to pay the higher taxes
and still have just a whisker more per-capita "spending money" than
the average US resident.

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 17:41:14 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Nov 21, 4:58?pm, "Del Cecchi"
wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

...



Even those of us who usually burn B20 are still using 80% dino-diesel.
Most of the crude oil the refiners use to create gasoline and diesel
comes from places that are explicitly unfriendly to the US, (and
according to the following article the Bush Administration is
concerned that some of those sources are bankrolling huge amounts of
capital for an eventual destabilizing financial assualt on the US
economy. It's not too late for Russia or China to win the final battle
in the Cold War).

However, also acording to the following article there is a source for
crude oil that takes a very enlightened approach to using its oil
wealth. The citizens of this country earn a per capita income (not
"family income", but per capita) of $65,509 per year, spend a maximum
of $200 per yar for health care, are in better physical shape and
enjoy a longer life expectancy than most Americans.

I hope that the next time I buy fuel, the crude oil comes from Norway.
(Probably won't, though).

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...ay_hundley_bdn...

You don't get much health care for 200 dollars per year. ?Laundering it
through the government or paying for it with oil revenue instead of
distributing the revenue to the people doesn't mean you aren't spending
it. ?What is the per capita spending on health care?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The rest of the health care is paid for with tax dollars. As Bill P
posted above, the Norwegians make enough money to pay the higher taxes
and still have just a whisker more per-capita "spending money" than
the average US resident.

Because they had enough sense to drill for oil in their back yard. Don't
forget that. They've purposely destroyed their entire environment just so
their people could live like kings and queens.
--
John H

On Nov 21, 5:55�pm, John H. wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 17:41:14 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould





wrote:
On Nov 21, 4:58?pm, "Del Cecchi"
wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

...

Even those of us who usually burn B20 are still using 80% dino-diesel..
Most of the crude oil the refiners use to create gasoline and diesel
comes from places that are explicitly unfriendly to the US, (and
according to the following article the Bush Administration is
concerned that some of those sources are bankrolling huge amounts of
capital for an eventual destabilizing financial assualt on the US
economy. It's not too late for Russia or China to win the final battle
in the Cold War).

However, also acording to the following article there is a source for
crude oil that takes a very enlightened approach to using its oil
wealth. The citizens of this country earn a per capita income (not
"family income", but per capita) of $65,509 per year, spend a maximum
of $200 per yar for health care, are in better physical shape and
enjoy a longer life expectancy than most Americans.

I hope that the next time I buy fuel, the crude oil comes from Norway..
(Probably won't, though).

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...ay_hundley_bdn....

You don't get much health care for 200 dollars per year. ?Laundering it
through the government or paying for it with oil revenue instead of
distributing the revenue to the people doesn't mean you aren't spending
it. ?What is the per capita spending on health care?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The rest of the health care is paid for with tax dollars. As Bill P
posted above, the Norwegians make enough money to pay the higher taxes
and still have just a whisker more per-capita "spending money" than
the average US resident.

Because they had enough sense to drill for oil in their back yard. Don't
forget that. They've purposely destroyed their entire environment just so
their people could live like kings and queens.
--
John H- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

John, we drilled for oil in our own backyard decades ago. Found a lot
of it, too. That cheap and abundant oil fostered some incredible
economic prosperity in this country for many decades. It's no longer
cheap or abundant. There is more oil that could be drilled, but we
have picked all the low-hanging fruit.

At some point we need to evaluate the trade-offs between oil and other
valid considerations. For instance, we know there is enough oil in the
Artic National Wildlife Refuge to supply all of this nation's oil
requirements for about 90 days (if we were getting oil from no other
source at the same time). There is a legitimate question to consider;
is the limited amount of oil to be recovered worth despoiling the
irreplaceable ANWR? People hold differing opinions.

Where should we drill? How about Yellowstone National Park?
Maybe we should line the bottom of the Grand Canyon with derricks?
How about the vacant lot across the street from your house, or your
neighborhood playground.....good spots for oil rigs?

The secret to future prosperity in the US does not (IMO) rest in
finding additional fuel to get another decade or two out of what can
only be a transitional technology (petro-fueled internal combution
engines). We should be working non-stop to be the *first*
technologically adept society to leave the IC engine behind for
good.That's what we did when we gave up on the steam engine 75-80
years ago, and look how we flourished for a while. I wonder if, back
then, lots of people were campaigning to mine more coal to provide a
constant supply of cheap fuel for steam engines?