Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
 

Harry Krause wrote:
Bert Robbins wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...
"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 15:36:47 -0400, Bert Robbins wrote:


Why do Canadian's come to the US for health care? Because they can
see a
doctor or get an MRI next week rather the 10 months from now.
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarti...m?ItemID=10515
"Most of what we hear about the Canadian health care system is
negative; in particular, the long waiting times for medical
procedures. But we found that waiting times affect few patients,
only 3.5% of Canadians vs. 0.7% of people in the U.S."

How is that not significant? If I wrote the headline, it would
read: "Five times as many Canadian patients are affected by long
waiting times compared to American patients".

The fact that the author downplays that important fact, yet hypes
another fact like "9.9% of U.S. respondents couldn't afford medicine
vs. 5.1% in Canada", shows his bias.
No matter what country you're talking about, why should it EVER be a
luxury item? I know the usual drivel: It's not mentioned in the
Constitution, but that's not a good enough reason.

Nothing is preventing you from setting up a charitable foundation that
will cover health costs for those that "can't afford" or simply don't
want to pay for it. This method will enable you to do something good
for you fellow man rather than bitching, complaining and whining about
its not fair unless the government takes money from everyone to do it.



Using the written word, Bertbrain, have you ever convinced anyone* of
anything?


* Anyone - an adult of average or higher intelligence.

You would be suprised at the trust and confidence that has directly been
placed in me by several thousand people. And, each one of them survivied.

Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
 

" JimH" jimhUNDERSCOREosudad@yahooDOTcom wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 15:36:47 -0400, Bert Robbins wrote:


Why do Canadian's come to the US for health care? Because they can
see a
doctor or get an MRI next week rather the 10 months from now.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarti...m?ItemID=10515

"Most of what we hear about the Canadian health care system is
negative; in particular, the long waiting times for medical procedures.
But we found that waiting times affect few patients, only 3.5% of
Canadians vs. 0.7% of people in the U.S."

How is that not significant? If I wrote the headline, it would read:
"Five times as many Canadian patients are affected by long waiting
times compared to American patients".

The fact that the author downplays that important fact, yet hypes
another fact like "9.9% of U.S. respondents couldn't afford medicine
vs. 5.1% in Canada", shows his bias.

No matter what country you're talking about, why should it EVER be a
luxury item? I know the usual drivel: It's not mentioned in the
Constitution, but that's not a good enough reason.

Health insurance ought to be made more affordable. Period. Start with
the insurers. Repeal that damn McCarron-Ferguson Act, and put insurance
under Federal regulation. Allow small businesses to band together across
state lines and purchase insurance through their national associations.

I wouldn't be opposed to paying higher taxes to cover medical insurance
if I didn't have to spend what I currently spend on health
insurance...*AND* I could get coverage at least as good as what I
currently have.

It costs my family $1200/month for insurance. Add that to the $800/month
I spend for my employees, and that's $24000/year that I spend on health
insurance. They could raise my tax rate 5 percentage points and it
would still be cheaper than what I'm paying now.




Wow! You are getting off cheap. We spend $3,000/year just on a health
care spending account, with another $150/month in insurance premiums.

We normally go through our spending account by June due to the number of
prescription drugs my family needs, even at generic pricing.


I'm paying COBRA rates, through my ex-wife's employer plan. If I walked into
Blue Choice as a new, individual customer, it would be double that amount.

Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
 

" JimH" jimhUNDERSCOREosudad@yahooDOTcom wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 15:36:47 -0400, Bert Robbins wrote:


Why do Canadian's come to the US for health care? Because they can
see a
doctor or get an MRI next week rather the 10 months from now.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarti...m?ItemID=10515

"Most of what we hear about the Canadian health care system is
negative; in particular, the long waiting times for medical procedures.
But we found that waiting times affect few patients, only 3.5% of
Canadians vs. 0.7% of people in the U.S."

How is that not significant? If I wrote the headline, it would read:
"Five times as many Canadian patients are affected by long waiting
times compared to American patients".

The fact that the author downplays that important fact, yet hypes
another fact like "9.9% of U.S. respondents couldn't afford medicine
vs. 5.1% in Canada", shows his bias.

No matter what country you're talking about, why should it EVER be a
luxury item? I know the usual drivel: It's not mentioned in the
Constitution, but that's not a good enough reason.

Health insurance ought to be made more affordable. Period. Start with
the insurers. Repeal that damn McCarron-Ferguson Act, and put insurance
under Federal regulation. Allow small businesses to band together across
state lines and purchase insurance through their national associations.

I wouldn't be opposed to paying higher taxes to cover medical insurance
if I didn't have to spend what I currently spend on health
insurance...*AND* I could get coverage at least as good as what I
currently have.

It costs my family $1200/month for insurance. Add that to the $800/month
I spend for my employees, and that's $24000/year that I spend on health
insurance. They could raise my tax rate 5 percentage points and it
would still be cheaper than what I'm paying now.




Wow! You are getting off cheap. We spend $3,000/year just on a health
care spending account, with another $150/month in insurance premiums.

We normally go through our spending account by June due to the number of
prescription drugs my family needs, even at generic pricing.

So if you spend $3000 through June, and I assume you spend another $3000
through December, and add that to the $150/mo times 12 months, that equals
$7800/year.

How am I getting off cheap by spending $14,400/year for my family? And
$24,000/year for my family and my employees combined?

Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


I agree. If I need an x-ray and money's tight, I can put it on a credit
card. And, there's never a problem with $60 office visits to the
internist. Meanwhile, I'm paying $300 a month for Blue Choice, for medical
needs which may never happen. I'd love to have a policy that covered
everything over X amount - $2K a year, or some such thing.


A few years back (mid 90's) I worked briefly for a company that was big
enough to self-insure. They offered several HMO and PTO type plans (which
the majority of the employees signed up for) along with a major medical plan
similar to those that existed before HMOs became the rage; which I opted
for. The major medical plan basically kicked in after $2,000 was paid by
the insured on an annual basis, unless in the event of a catastrophic injury
or illness in which case the insurance kicked in immediately. That year my
wife had a bout with breast cancer, had biopsies, major surgery,
chemotherapy and weekly, then monthly extensive follow-up exams. The
insurance paid for everything. If I recall correctly, my premium
contribution to this plan was about 8 bucks a week.

I've mentioned it here before, but when I was running my company I did a
survey to determine how our Blue Cross/Blue Shield HMO was being used by the
employees and their families. Based on the premiums that we were paying at
the time (the company paid 80%), I determined that it would be cheaper for
the company to simply pay for all the well baby checkups and visits for
coughs and colds and 100% pay for a major medical (non HMO) type plan for
everybody for catastrophic injury or illness. The problem was that no plan
was available in MA, nor would the state allow such a thing for a company of
our small size.

Eisboch

Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 15:36:47 -0400, Bert Robbins wrote:


Why do Canadian's come to the US for health care? Because they can
see a
doctor or get an MRI next week rather the 10 months from now.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarti...m?ItemID=10515

"Most of what we hear about the Canadian health care system is
negative; in particular, the long waiting times for medical
procedures. But we found that waiting times affect few patients, only
3.5% of Canadians vs. 0.7% of people in the U.S."

How is that not significant? If I wrote the headline, it would read:
"Five times as many Canadian patients are affected by long waiting
times compared to American patients".

The fact that the author downplays that important fact, yet hypes
another fact like "9.9% of U.S. respondents couldn't afford medicine
vs. 5.1% in Canada", shows his bias.

No matter what country you're talking about, why should it EVER be a
luxury item? I know the usual drivel: It's not mentioned in the
Constitution, but that's not a good enough reason.

Health insurance ought to be made more affordable. Period. Start with
the insurers. Repeal that damn McCarron-Ferguson Act, and put insurance
under Federal regulation. Allow small businesses to band together
across state lines and purchase insurance through their national
associations.

I wouldn't be opposed to paying higher taxes to cover medical insurance
if I didn't have to spend what I currently spend on health
insurance...*AND* I could get coverage at least as good as what I
currently have.

It costs my family $1200/month for insurance. Add that to the
$800/month I spend for my employees, and that's $24000/year that I spend
on health insurance. They could raise my tax rate 5 percentage points
and it would still be cheaper than what I'm paying now.

Oooh....government regulation. You're a liberal!

And you're a conservative:

"I agree. If I need an x-ray and money's tight, I can put it on a credit
card. And, there's never a problem with $60 office visits to the
internist. Meanwhile, I'm paying $300 a month for Blue Choice, for medical
needs which may never happen. I'd love to have a policy that covered
everything over X amount - $2K a year, or some such thing.
"

You just described Bush's medical savings account plan.

"On August 21, 1996, President Clinton signed into law the Kassebaum-Kennedy
bill that allows Americans to open a Medical Savings Account (MSA)."

Unless you're finicky about the numbers, it seems to be a different
president's plan.

Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Jack Goff" wrote in message
...


While the separate arguments he makes looks pretty good on their face,
when you put them together it seems a bit like leaving the hen house
unlocked, and handing the keys to the fox. Basically, let the bad oil
companies alone set the price for the raw material they need, as they
see fit? How's that gonna work?

What are you talking about??? The henhouse is *already* unlocked! The
presence of non-industry gamblers in the hedging process is the largest
part of the problem. Are you saying they *belong* in the futures market
because they somehow keep the oil companies honest???
The world according to Doug Kanter, aka JoeSpareBedroom, sure must be a
rigid one. If I have money to invest or speculate on commodities or
futures why should I be limited to specific vehicles?

Your world doesn't sound like a place most of us Americans want to live
in.


It's already that kind of world. Walk into a brokerage firm and tell them
you want to play with uncovered call options. There's a 50/50 chance that
they'll walk you to the door because the regulations are designed to
prevent people from jumping off bridges.

However, if I have enough of a net worth I can play with uncovered call
options.


Anyway...back to the oil subject: Oil is a product too important to be
fiddled with by monkeys. Would you agree that when the price increases by
50%, it affects parts of the economy in negative ways?

Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Jack Goff" wrote in message
...


While the separate arguments he makes looks pretty good on their face,
when you put them together it seems a bit like leaving the hen house
unlocked, and handing the keys to the fox. Basically, let the bad oil
companies alone set the price for the raw material they need, as they
see fit? How's that gonna work?

What are you talking about??? The henhouse is *already* unlocked! The
presence of non-industry gamblers in the hedging process is the largest
part of the problem. Are you saying they *belong* in the futures market
because they somehow keep the oil companies honest???
The world according to Doug Kanter, aka JoeSpareBedroom, sure must be a
rigid one. If I have money to invest or speculate on commodities or
futures why should I be limited to specific vehicles?

Your world doesn't sound like a place most of us Americans want to live
in.

It's already that kind of world. Walk into a brokerage firm and tell them
you want to play with uncovered call options. There's a 50/50 chance that
they'll walk you to the door because the regulations are designed to
prevent people from jumping off bridges.
However, if I have enough of a net worth I can play with uncovered call
options.


Anyway...back to the oil subject: Oil is a product too important to be
fiddled with by monkeys. Would you agree that when the price increases by
50%, it affects parts of the economy in negative ways?

Develop another source of usable energy that is more cost effective than
oil is and you could be rich. Otherwise, shut up and pay before you pump.

Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
 

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 20:48:54 +0000, NOYB wrote:


"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 15:36:47 -0400, Bert Robbins wrote:


Why do Canadian's come to the US for health care? Because they can see
a doctor or get an MRI next week rather the 10 months from now.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarti...m?ItemID=10515

"Most of what we hear about the Canadian health care system is negative;
in
particular, the long waiting times for medical procedures. But we found
that waiting times affect few patients, only 3.5% of Canadians vs. 0.7% of
people in the U.S."

How is that not significant? If I wrote the headline, it would read:
"Five times as many Canadian patients are affected by long waiting times
compared to American patients".

The fact that the author downplays that important fact, yet hypes another
fact like "9.9% of U.S. respondents couldn't afford medicine vs. 5.1% in
Canada", shows his bias.

Throw the baby out with the bath water? All articles show bias. The link
was a counter-point to Bert's claims. There's no denying America has
quality health care, if you can afford it, but it is expensive and some
lack access. Just curious, if our health care is so great, why does it
keep becoming an issue? As we were comparing Canadian and US systems, I'd
be willing to bet, if a survey were done, that Canadians are happier with
their health care system, than we are with ours.

Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
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"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Don White" wrote in message
...


If you don't mind paying $700.00 - 800.00 out of pocket, you can
get an MRI scan within a week or two here at a private clinic.

If Joe USA with a company paid HMO health plan had to do that,
he'd scream bloody murder.
Those without a health plan will get it for free, if it is related
to a life threatening injury or disease.

HMOs and PTOs screwed up health insurance here in the USA royally,
IMHO. We should go back to inexpensive major medical coverage for
catastrophic injury or illness. The rest we should pay for and it
should be free for those that can't.

Eisboch


I agree. If I need an x-ray and money's tight, I can put it on a
credit card. And, there's never a problem with $60 office visits to
the internist. Meanwhile, I'm paying $300 a month for Blue Choice,
for medical needs which may never happen. I'd love to have a policy
that covered everything over X amount - $2K a year, or some such
thing.

Then get a Medical Savings Account:
http://www.forhealthfreedom.org/Publ...hIns/MSAs.html

Yeah...that's on my list of things to do during vacation, when the
damned phones stop ringing. Speaking of work, can I interest you in
1150 cases (9,200 64 oz bottles) of Indian Summer apple juice? $16.00
per case, delivered, but you have to take the whole truck. $18,400.00.
Net 10 days.

Plastic or glass bottles?

Plastic. Prepare to provide a D&B number.

Perfect. I could fill up my cooler on my boat. What do you figure that
weighs? I don't want to exceed the maximum weight for my boat according
to my CG plaque.

40,244 pounds, exactly.

Damn. Sorry, won't work.

Gasoline prices - another record high/ supply and demand
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

" JimH" jimhUNDERSCOREosudad@yahooDOTcom wrote in message
...

"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 15:36:47 -0400, Bert Robbins wrote:


Why do Canadian's come to the US for health care? Because they can
see a
doctor or get an MRI next week rather the 10 months from now.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarti...m?ItemID=10515

"Most of what we hear about the Canadian health care system is
negative; in particular, the long waiting times for medical
procedures. But we found that waiting times affect few patients, only
3.5% of Canadians vs. 0.7% of people in the U.S."

How is that not significant? If I wrote the headline, it would read:
"Five times as many Canadian patients are affected by long waiting
times compared to American patients".

The fact that the author downplays that important fact, yet hypes
another fact like "9.9% of U.S. respondents couldn't afford medicine
vs. 5.1% in Canada", shows his bias.

No matter what country you're talking about, why should it EVER be a
luxury item? I know the usual drivel: It's not mentioned in the
Constitution, but that's not a good enough reason.

Health insurance ought to be made more affordable. Period. Start with
the insurers. Repeal that damn McCarron-Ferguson Act, and put insurance
under Federal regulation. Allow small businesses to band together
across state lines and purchase insurance through their national
associations.

I wouldn't be opposed to paying higher taxes to cover medical insurance
if I didn't have to spend what I currently spend on health
insurance...*AND* I could get coverage at least as good as what I
currently have.

It costs my family $1200/month for insurance. Add that to the
$800/month I spend for my employees, and that's $24000/year that I spend
on health insurance. They could raise my tax rate 5 percentage points
and it would still be cheaper than what I'm paying now.




Wow! You are getting off cheap. We spend $3,000/year just on a health
care spending account, with another $150/month in insurance premiums.

We normally go through our spending account by June due to the number of
prescription drugs my family needs, even at generic pricing.

So if you spend $3000 through June, and I assume you spend another $3000
through December, and add that to the $150/mo times 12 months, that equals
$7800/year.

How am I getting off cheap by spending $14,400/year for my family? And
$24,000/year for my family and my employees combined?




I missed a decimal point. Sorry.

Once we exhaust our spending account the remainder of the expenses (less
premium) are paid by Aetna.

You are certainly correct as your costs are quite high. ;-)