I like UseNet because it is easily found by new boaters or those that
haven't use the net before.
Quinton
"It's a new year!" wrote in message
news:%gIMb.38687$xy6.98464@attbi_s02...
Lee, it is a great idea, the problem with web based groups is you have to
promote and/or advertise the group to get a group of regulars. It is not
quite as easy as sorting out UseNet groups for things you are interested
in.

The advantage is obvious, you would have a group discussing boats, without
all of the name calling and OT political crap. It might make sense to use
rec.boats for the flame wars and OT discussions. Those who want a true
boating forum could add a sig file on the bottom of their posts promoting
your true boating forum.


"Lee Yeaton" wrote in message
...
"QLW" wrote in message
...
It's plainly obvious that this newsgroup has become almost useless as
a
boating forum. Rec.cruising, rec.boats.building and alt.sailing are
good
but there is also a need for a general boating forum where one does
not
have
to wade through all of the political crap and in-fighting posted here.
I
can't figure out why people insist on doing this...but they do! So
how
is
a
new news group formed? To bad we can't make this one moderated to
limit
the
content to boating related topics.
Quinton

I know I'll get slammed for this but.....

Why don't we just start a new group ourselves. Instead of doing it on
Usenet we could do it on the Internet.

I can get some free server space for a year and I'll buy the domain
name,
it's $20.00 so it's not a lot of money. I also know where to get free
message board software. You can see the software on my other site
chesapeakeforums.com. All we would need is a list of topics and some
people
to donate their time to moderate.

Think of it like a boatered but not moderated by a business owner, but
moderated by us. If a moderator gets out of line we can vote him off.
The
group would have control, not just one person.

I am sure I left out a bunch of details but I think this is doable if we
can
get the people to donate some time and to participate.

Ok, let me have it......

- - - - -
Lee Yeaton
www.thebayguide.com

the boats of rec.boats
www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats

Quinton,

I agree. I just have to sort through all the OT messages. It is annoying.

I am sure there are news groups for these topics. I go to news groups for
photography, fly fishing, RVing and travel too.

Talking about politics or religion is really stupid on a boat newsgroup.

I think these off topic messages actually turn off some people that could
either learn or teach here?

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA
www.kiene.com

"QLW" wrote in message
...

It's plainly obvious that this newsgroup has become almost useless as a
boating forum. Rec.cruising, rec.boats.building and alt.sailing are good
but there is also a need for a general boating forum where one does not
have
to wade through all of the political crap and in-fighting posted here. I
can't figure out why people insist on doing this...but they do! So how is
a
new news group formed? To bad we can't make this one moderated to limit
the
content to boating related topics.
Quinton

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:06:28 -0500, "Lee Yeaton"
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

I appreciate the warning but I have moderated before and I am doing it now,
it isn't that bad. I have to read the discussions each day, which I do
anyway, and sort through the bad stuff. The group is pretty well behaved.
Occasionally there are some bad apples, but I just got rid of them.

In the past I moderated on a very large Jeep site and there were a lot of
times that I had to consult other mods, but since I was already reading the
boards it wasn't to bad.

Then be my guest if you know what you are getting into. ;)

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
----------
"My rod and my reel - they comfort me."

St. Pete, 12 Lb. Test

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:06:28 -0500, "Lee Yeaton"
wrote:

~~ snippage ~~

I appreciate the warning but I have moderated before and I am doing it now,
it isn't that bad. I have to read the discussions each day, which I do
anyway, and sort through the bad stuff. The group is pretty well behaved.
Occasionally there are some bad apples, but I just got rid of them.

In the past I moderated on a very large Jeep site and there were a lot of
times that I had to consult other mods, but since I was already reading the
boards it wasn't to bad.

Then be my guest if you know what you are getting into. ;)

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
----------
"My rod and my reel - they comfort me."

St. Pete, 12 Lb. Test


There is no shortage of moderated bulletin boards dealing with all
aspects of boating. Several of these are quite nice. I read and
participate regularly in two of them.

This newsgroup starting going down the drain when the rabid attack dogs,
Skipper and Karen Smith, starting inserting themselves into virtually
every discussion with hair-splitting nonsense. Ms. Smith has played the
attack dog around here for years, and has literally chased off many
posters who had valuable contributions to make with her incessant
attacks on them and their ideas. As these quality posters left, their
places at the table were taken by the right-wing BORG, who feel it
necessary to assimilate the world.

Not everyone is as thick-skinned as I am, nor should they have to be.



--
Email sent to is never read.

Sounds great Lee.

I will say no matter what we do, it *has* to be moderated.

The people who post OT now are fanatics. They will go to great lengths to be
heard. It bothers them immensely not to be heard, in fact, many change their
name (to avoid kill files) and infiltrate other newsgroups just out of
spite.

These unintelligent, rude, and inconsiderate people who disregard simple
Usenet etiquette, would "attack" any new group we form, thus, it *has* to be
moderated.

My two cents...


"Lee Yeaton" wrote in message
...
"QLW" wrote in message
...
It's plainly obvious that this newsgroup has become almost useless as a
boating forum. Rec.cruising, rec.boats.building and alt.sailing are
good
but there is also a need for a general boating forum where one does not
have
to wade through all of the political crap and in-fighting posted here.
I
can't figure out why people insist on doing this...but they do! So how
is
a
new news group formed? To bad we can't make this one moderated to limit
the
content to boating related topics.
Quinton

I know I'll get slammed for this but.....

Why don't we just start a new group ourselves. Instead of doing it on
Usenet we could do it on the Internet.

I can get some free server space for a year and I'll buy the domain name,
it's $20.00 so it's not a lot of money. I also know where to get free
message board software. You can see the software on my other site
chesapeakeforums.com. All we would need is a list of topics and some
people
to donate their time to moderate.

Think of it like a boatered but not moderated by a business owner, but
moderated by us. If a moderator gets out of line we can vote him off.
The
group would have control, not just one person.

I am sure I left out a bunch of details but I think this is doable if we
can
get the people to donate some time and to participate.

Ok, let me have it......

- - - - -
Lee Yeaton
www.thebayguide.com

the boats of rec.boats
www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:27:38 -0500, "Lee Yeaton"
wrote:


snipped

Ok, let me have it......

- - - - -
Lee Yeaton
www.thebayguide.com

the boats of rec.boats
www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats



Lee, would the following be on or off topic?
******************************
This newsgroup starting going down the drain when the rabid attack
dogs,
Skipper and Karen Smith, starting inserting themselves into virtually
every discussion with hair-splitting nonsense. Ms. Smith has played
the
attack dog around here for years, and has literally chased off many
posters who had valuable contributions to make with her incessant
attacks on them and their ideas. As these quality posters left, their
places at the table were taken by the right-wing BORG, who feel it
necessary to assimilate the world.
************************************************
This is a prime example of how a very on-topic thread gets turned into
a flame war.

Check out the BS and the Boat Talk forums at www.tidalfish.com
..There's something there for everyone, and it's free and moderated.The
moderators do a great job, but they do put up with some flak every now
and then.

Access to all the forums may require registration, but it's no big
deal. I've yet to get any unsolicited spam from these guys.


John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

oh Jesus Harry! You are guilty of running people off this site as anyone.

Grow the hell up you fool.

The "Gang of Seven" should go to jail for 90-days, and see if it improves
rec.boats.
There are seven personalities here causing most of the trouble. While the
number of people involved in the general ruckus certainly exceeds seven, it is
my opinion that the following posters, (listed in alphabetical order), are
primarily responsible for the increasingly nasty tone and OT content of
rec.boats. Others not listed below are merely co-dependent:


Gould0738: May know a little about boats, but contributes to general chaos.
Starts few OT threads, but participates freely. Encourages the liberals and p's
off the conservatives. He can be extremely vindictive. Seldom wins or loses
graciously. This reckless, maverick, self centered personality bends and/or
disregards most rules that others rely on to establish social structure. His
free-for-all attitudes are generally incompatible with the NG format.

Harry Krause: A perpetual troublemaker who views rec.boats as a personal
playground. Talks "down" to everybody even when not trying to do so. A major
originator of OT posts. In common with the other members of the gang of seven,
he puts his own need to express opinions and
argue points above the general welfare of the group.

Jim: Has appeared in rec.boats as at least two separate personalities, both of
them
extremely combative. Contributes to the negative atmosphere by firing off cheap
insults at posters he disagrees with. Has very little actual boating
experience, and virtually never contributes anything on topic. Once said "I
come to rec.boats just to stir up trouble. I go elsewhere for real boating
newsgroups".

jps: A relentless cutter-and-paster of newspaper articles critical of George
Bush
and the right wing in general. Possibly feels that his behavior is justified
because of the ready audience he finds in the NG.
A source of much of the OT material in the NG.

Karen Smith: owns all or part of a boatyard
in Australia. Visits rec.boats primarily to argue and call names. When the
group was more on-topic, she demonized everyone (else) involved in the marine
business. Now that the group has devolved to more off-topic material, she has
decided that she's really a displaced American conservative (and that the evil
enemies are all the liberals in the world), so the names and the flames can
continue undiminished.

NOYB: A fledgling dentist from Naples, FLA, who is listed as a participant in a
few dozen newsgroups. Not sure he owns a boat. Never posts on topic. He is the
counter-point to jps, cutting and pasting general news articles favorable to
George Bush and the right wing in general. Most honest, and likely the most
extreme of all rec.boats conservatives. A major author of OT threads.

Wally: A lesser version of the Jim/Dennis Compton profile.Typical post is two
lines of insulting response to an OT comment. Contributes very little as far as
the nominal topic goes, but adds significantly to the combative, adversarial
atmosphere in the NG. Unable to engage in civil debate. Has no ability to
respect contrasting opinion. He may well be fairly intelligent, but fails to
present as such in this format.

Anyhow, I think this is such a good idea and holds such promise that I hereby
adopt it. I'm out of here for at least 90-days
(leaving you all with a gang of only six) and by my example I challenge my
fellow trouble makers to do the same.

If I check back at the end of that time it will be interesting to see if any of
the other trouble makers agreed with my suggestion for a time out, and whether
the group improves in tone or content as a result.

(There will be very little point in flaming my comments above......I won't be
around to read your remarks. If you're included in my list and need to get
"even", send me an e-mail. Thanks)

Oh, uh huh, I see... I'm not included Well, I can blame myself, because
once or twice I've been known to say "you all pi$$ me off, I'm going elsewhere"
- but then a few weeks later, I come back here.

Anyway I like your analogies. They are right on target! Hehehee... This is
mine (feel free to modify it, rewrite it as needed):

Butch Ammon: Fresh water boater using his dad's old 70's trihull. Has
knowledge of small boating (jon boats and smaller pond boats), and even the old
5hp Johnson Sea Horse OB's. Ocean boating experience is limited to learning to
pilot a USCG 41' UTB off the coast of Cape May, NJ in 1979!
Rec.boats: Has been somewhat active since May 1999 when he picked up his dad's
old 17' trihull and started using it. Posts some off-topic threads, joins in
fun and general banter, but when it things get heated and into a flame war, he
backs down and feels "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say
anything at all".
Political: Republican but known to like "some" democrats (Zell Miller, etc..).
Religion: Presbyterian (very laid back, has been spotted in church on occasion
and the roof didn't collapse!)
Sports: Die-hard Buffalo Bills football fan. Plays golf when not boating.
Tries hard to beat best round of 84. Goes freshwater fishing on Lake Anna, VA
and in the fall/winter goes hunting with friends.
Music: appreciates all varieties of music except rap and hip-hop. Wide variety
of taste from Metallica to Tony Bennett.

How's that sound?

Butch Ammon

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
The "Gang of Seven" should go to jail for 90-days, and see if it improves
rec.boats.
There are seven personalities here causing most of the trouble. While the
number of people involved in the general ruckus certainly exceeds seven,
it is
my opinion that the following posters, (listed in alphabetical order), are
primarily responsible for the increasingly nasty tone and OT content of
rec.boats. Others not listed below are merely co-dependent:


Gould0738: May know a little about boats, but contributes to general
chaos.
Starts few OT threads, but participates freely. Encourages the liberals
and p's
off the conservatives. He can be extremely vindictive. Seldom wins or
loses
graciously. This reckless, maverick, self centered personality bends
and/or
disregards most rules that others rely on to establish social structure.
His
free-for-all attitudes are generally incompatible with the NG format.

Harry Krause: A perpetual troublemaker who views rec.boats as a personal
playground. Talks "down" to everybody even when not trying to do so. A
major
originator of OT posts. In common with the other members of the gang of
seven,
he puts his own need to express opinions and
argue points above the general welfare of the group.

Jim: Has appeared in rec.boats as at least two separate personalities,
both of
them
extremely combative. Contributes to the negative atmosphere by firing off
cheap
insults at posters he disagrees with. Has very little actual boating
experience, and virtually never contributes anything on topic. Once said
"I
come to rec.boats just to stir up trouble. I go elsewhere for real boating
newsgroups".

jps: A relentless cutter-and-paster of newspaper articles critical of
George
Bush
and the right wing in general. Possibly feels that his behavior is
justified
because of the ready audience he finds in the NG.
A source of much of the OT material in the NG.

Karen Smith: owns all or part of a boatyard
in Australia. Visits rec.boats primarily to argue and call names. When the
group was more on-topic, she demonized everyone (else) involved in the
marine
business. Now that the group has devolved to more off-topic material, she
has
decided that she's really a displaced American conservative (and that the
evil
enemies are all the liberals in the world), so the names and the flames
can
continue undiminished.

NOYB: A fledgling dentist from Naples, FLA,

When do you stop being a "fledgling"? I figure 5 years in my own practice
qualifies me as more than a "fledgling".


who is listed as a participant in a
few dozen newsgroups.

Half a dozen. Tops.

Not sure he owns a boat.

Currently own two. Both are Boston Whalers...a 17' and a 25'. Previously
owned a grady 23 Gulfstream, 13 Whaler and a 22' Whaler.


Never posts on topic.

Not here, anyhow. Well...sometimes.



He is the
counter-point to jps, cutting and pasting general news articles favorable
to
George Bush and the right wing in general. Most honest,

Thanks! ;-)


and likely the most
extreme of all rec.boats conservatives.

I dunno about that. Clams has been pretty extreme lately...but I'm trying.

A major author of OT threads.

Just when I'm bored.

Geez, Gould...
You're tougher on yourself than on the other people you mention.

BTW--next time you descibe Harry, it'd be prudent to include the word
"Narcissist" if you really want your bio to be complete and accurate.

Also, you left out basskisser:
Karate Kid wannabe living in Atlanta, who has posted here under 5 or 6
different names. Claims he's a PE who works for himself, but is probably
unemployed and living with his parents. Thinks he's Bruce Lee, and has
challenged every conservative off-topic poster here to a fight. Has no clue
how to follow a thread, and consistently posts off-topic of even the
off-topic threads. When cornered like a rat, resorts to name-calling.