On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 13:33:19 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 12:56:26 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 11/27/15 12:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 12:02:23 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 18:38:18 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:23:43 -0500,
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 16:12:53 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

The teachers
were not looking for anything massive, but the law said there had to be
good faith negotiations...and the strikes helped make that happen.

===

Unions willing to break the law are guilty of extortion. Teachers
work hard for their money but salaries, and paticularly benefits, have
gotten out of line with private industry. This will cause a major
crisis at some point and force many local school districts into
bankruptcy.

I am not even upset at teacher salaries and benefits. What ****es me
off is they can't get rid of bad teachers, pay is not tied to
performance and the administration siphons 60% of the money away
before it ever trickles down to the actual classroom.

Sounds like you've been there and done that. You are correct.

A few years ago I did go through the school board budget, pretty much
line for line and developed a summary of where the money was going.
Then I compared that to a few other places.
The striking thing was how much of the money is going to things that
are not really education related.
In defense of the teachers themselves, I would say, they will not make
any real money in the classroom compared to what they can make if they
move downtown to the administration office.
Now you end up with a teacher who we may have been better off keeping
in the classroom, being a mediocre administrator but that is how the
career path is structured. You can't get a serious administrative job
without being a teacher.

It is an entirely different skill set.

Charter schools are starting to demonstrate the flaws in the way we
run school systems, even though they are running with ankle weights.



Good grief. You went through a local school board budget and proclaimed
yourself an expert.

Hehehe.

It is simple math and math is a pure science.

...but you know that.

It is a simple fact that you can put a kid in the best secular private
school in Lee County for what the school board is spending on them.



That you can do simple math doesn't mean you understand a school budget,
but of course you are the world's greatest living expert.

It is not hard to understand when they break out where the money is
being spent. I am sorry that you underestimate the abilities of people
you disagree with but that does not make them wrong.

On 11/27/2015 3:24 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 13:33:19 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 12:56:26 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 11/27/15 12:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 12:02:23 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 18:38:18 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:23:43 -0500,
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 16:12:53 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

The teachers
were not looking for anything massive, but the law said there had to be
good faith negotiations...and the strikes helped make that happen.

===

Unions willing to break the law are guilty of extortion. Teachers
work hard for their money but salaries, and paticularly benefits, have
gotten out of line with private industry. This will cause a major
crisis at some point and force many local school districts into
bankruptcy.

I am not even upset at teacher salaries and benefits. What ****es me
off is they can't get rid of bad teachers, pay is not tied to
performance and the administration siphons 60% of the money away
before it ever trickles down to the actual classroom.

Sounds like you've been there and done that. You are correct.

A few years ago I did go through the school board budget, pretty much
line for line and developed a summary of where the money was going.
Then I compared that to a few other places.
The striking thing was how much of the money is going to things that
are not really education related.
In defense of the teachers themselves, I would say, they will not make
any real money in the classroom compared to what they can make if they
move downtown to the administration office.
Now you end up with a teacher who we may have been better off keeping
in the classroom, being a mediocre administrator but that is how the
career path is structured. You can't get a serious administrative job
without being a teacher.

It is an entirely different skill set.

Charter schools are starting to demonstrate the flaws in the way we
run school systems, even though they are running with ankle weights.



Good grief. You went through a local school board budget and proclaimed
yourself an expert.

Hehehe.

It is simple math and math is a pure science.

...but you know that.

It is a simple fact that you can put a kid in the best secular private
school in Lee County for what the school board is spending on them.



That you can do simple math doesn't mean you understand a school budget,
but of course you are the world's greatest living expert.

It is not hard to understand when they break out where the money is
being spent. I am sorry that you underestimate the abilities of people
you disagree with but that does not make them wrong.



Harry cracks me up. When the subject is global warming or creationism,
math, science and statistics reign but when it comes to a social issue
dear to his heart, math, science and statistics go out the window and
the insults start.

You are absolutely correct. Two of our kids went to public high
schools, the third went to a highly rated private high school.

I just looked up the current public school budget and the "cost per
pupil" for the long list of budgetary line items. Then I looked up the
current tuition (inclusive of all student fees) for the private school
our third kid graduated from.

The total "cost per pupil" is actually slightly higher in the public
school than the tuition for the private. The private has a statistical
record of the highest percentage of graduates continuing on to college
and also has the higher average SAT scores.

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 15:53:35 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The total "cost per pupil" is actually slightly higher in the public
school than the tuition for the private. The private has a statistical
record of the highest percentage of graduates continuing on to college
and also has the higher average SAT scores.

===

Private schools have a big advantage in the area of quality vs
dollars. Most importantly they don't have to accept or retain
everyone. That gets rid of the high cost or disruptive "problem"
students. Additionally they don't have to fund all of the high cost
"feel good" programs mandated by the feds.

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 16:10:39 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 15:53:35 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The total "cost per pupil" is actually slightly higher in the public
school than the tuition for the private. The private has a statistical
record of the highest percentage of graduates continuing on to college
and also has the higher average SAT scores.

===

Private schools have a big advantage in the area of quality vs
dollars. Most importantly they don't have to accept or retain
everyone. That gets rid of the high cost or disruptive "problem"
students. Additionally they don't have to fund all of the high cost
"feel good" programs mandated by the feds.

And around here, the private schools - at least the parochial ones - pay teachers
less. But, the students are much better disciplined and motivated. I would have
gladly taken a pay cut to teach in one of them, but the teachers there don't ever
seem to leave.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 16:10:39 -0500,
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 15:53:35 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The total "cost per pupil" is actually slightly higher in the public
school than the tuition for the private. The private has a statistical
record of the highest percentage of graduates continuing on to college
and also has the higher average SAT scores.

===

Private schools have a big advantage in the area of quality vs
dollars. Most importantly they don't have to accept or retain
everyone. That gets rid of the high cost or disruptive "problem"
students. Additionally they don't have to fund all of the high cost
"feel good" programs mandated by the feds.

I am sure Harry has that on a "cut and paste" for us but I need to
point out those western european countries he likes to wax on about do
the same thing.
If you are a dunce in Germany they send you to trade school or spin
you off to VW,
Criminals go to jail

wrote:
On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 16:10:39 -0500,
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 15:53:35 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The total "cost per pupil" is actually slightly higher in the public
school than the tuition for the private. The private has a statistical
record of the highest percentage of graduates continuing on to college
and also has the higher average SAT scores.

===

Private schools have a big advantage in the area of quality vs
dollars. Most importantly they don't have to accept or retain
everyone. That gets rid of the high cost or disruptive "problem"
students. Additionally they don't have to fund all of the high cost
"feel good" programs mandated by the feds.

I am sure Harry has that on a "cut and paste" for us but I need to
point out those western european countries he likes to wax on about do
the same thing.
If you are a dunce in Germany they send you to trade school or spin
you off to VW,
Criminals go to jail


You have to take your A levels tests in England. I think about 10th grade.
Your future education depends on those tests.

On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 19:45:49 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:
- show quoted text -
I guess I need to buy a program. Who is Jim?
Everyone here but Wayne and me seems to have several aliases.
...........

Well, then there's me....

On 11/29/2015 5:46 AM, Tim wrote:
On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 19:45:49 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:
- show quoted text -
I guess I need to buy a program. Who is Jim?
Everyone here but Wayne and me seems to have several aliases.
...........

Well, then there's me....


Good to see you back. You sure did give us a scare.

On 11/27/15 3:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/27/2015 3:24 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 13:33:19 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 12:56:26 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 11/27/15 12:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 12:02:23 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 18:38:18 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:23:43 -0500,
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 16:12:53 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

The teachers
were not looking for anything massive, but the law said there
had to be
good faith negotiations...and the strikes helped make that
happen.

===

Unions willing to break the law are guilty of extortion. Teachers
work hard for their money but salaries, and paticularly
benefits, have
gotten out of line with private industry. This will cause a major
crisis at some point and force many local school districts into
bankruptcy.

I am not even upset at teacher salaries and benefits. What
****es me
off is they can't get rid of bad teachers, pay is not tied to
performance and the administration siphons 60% of the money away
before it ever trickles down to the actual classroom.

Sounds like you've been there and done that. You are correct.

A few years ago I did go through the school board budget, pretty much
line for line and developed a summary of where the money was going.
Then I compared that to a few other places.
The striking thing was how much of the money is going to things that
are not really education related.
In defense of the teachers themselves, I would say, they will not
make
any real money in the classroom compared to what they can make if
they
move downtown to the administration office.
Now you end up with a teacher who we may have been better off keeping
in the classroom, being a mediocre administrator but that is how the
career path is structured. You can't get a serious administrative job
without being a teacher.

It is an entirely different skill set.

Charter schools are starting to demonstrate the flaws in the way we
run school systems, even though they are running with ankle weights.



Good grief. You went through a local school board budget and
proclaimed
yourself an expert.

Hehehe.

It is simple math and math is a pure science.

...but you know that.

It is a simple fact that you can put a kid in the best secular private
school in Lee County for what the school board is spending on them.



That you can do simple math doesn't mean you understand a school budget,
but of course you are the world's greatest living expert.

It is not hard to understand when they break out where the money is
being spent. I am sorry that you underestimate the abilities of people
you disagree with but that does not make them wrong.



Harry cracks me up. When the subject is global warming or creationism,
math, science and statistics reign but when it comes to a social issue
dear to his heart, math, science and statistics go out the window and
the insults start.

You are absolutely correct. Two of our kids went to public high
schools, the third went to a highly rated private high school.

I just looked up the current public school budget and the "cost per
pupil" for the long list of budgetary line items. Then I looked up the
current tuition (inclusive of all student fees) for the private school
our third kid graduated from.

The total "cost per pupil" is actually slightly higher in the public
school than the tuition for the private. The private has a statistical
record of the highest percentage of graduates continuing on to college
and also has the higher average SAT scores.



It is a bit naive to compare cost per pupil between public and private
schools, since public schools in the main pay their staffs decently, and
are also burdened with trying to correct most of the ills of society
dumped on kids with impoverished parents, have to provide programs for
intellectually and emotionally challenged kids, and don't have the
advantage of cherry picking their students. But, hey, it's just math,
right?

On 11/27/2015 6:52 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 11/27/15 3:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/27/2015 3:24 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 13:33:19 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 12:56:26 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 11/27/15 12:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 12:02:23 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 18:38:18 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:23:43 -0500,

wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 16:12:53 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

The teachers
were not looking for anything massive, but the law said there
had to be
good faith negotiations...and the strikes helped make that
happen.

===

Unions willing to break the law are guilty of extortion.
Teachers
work hard for their money but salaries, and paticularly
benefits, have
gotten out of line with private industry. This will cause a
major
crisis at some point and force many local school districts into
bankruptcy.

I am not even upset at teacher salaries and benefits. What
****es me
off is they can't get rid of bad teachers, pay is not tied to
performance and the administration siphons 60% of the money away
before it ever trickles down to the actual classroom.

Sounds like you've been there and done that. You are correct.

A few years ago I did go through the school board budget, pretty
much
line for line and developed a summary of where the money was going.
Then I compared that to a few other places.
The striking thing was how much of the money is going to things that
are not really education related.
In defense of the teachers themselves, I would say, they will not
make
any real money in the classroom compared to what they can make if
they
move downtown to the administration office.
Now you end up with a teacher who we may have been better off
keeping
in the classroom, being a mediocre administrator but that is how the
career path is structured. You can't get a serious administrative
job
without being a teacher.

It is an entirely different skill set.

Charter schools are starting to demonstrate the flaws in the way we
run school systems, even though they are running with ankle weights.



Good grief. You went through a local school board budget and
proclaimed
yourself an expert.

Hehehe.

It is simple math and math is a pure science.

...but you know that.

It is a simple fact that you can put a kid in the best secular private
school in Lee County for what the school board is spending on them.



That you can do simple math doesn't mean you understand a school
budget,
but of course you are the world's greatest living expert.

It is not hard to understand when they break out where the money is
being spent. I am sorry that you underestimate the abilities of people
you disagree with but that does not make them wrong.



Harry cracks me up. When the subject is global warming or creationism,
math, science and statistics reign but when it comes to a social issue
dear to his heart, math, science and statistics go out the window and
the insults start.

You are absolutely correct. Two of our kids went to public high
schools, the third went to a highly rated private high school.

I just looked up the current public school budget and the "cost per
pupil" for the long list of budgetary line items. Then I looked up the
current tuition (inclusive of all student fees) for the private school
our third kid graduated from.

The total "cost per pupil" is actually slightly higher in the public
school than the tuition for the private. The private has a statistical
record of the highest percentage of graduates continuing on to college
and also has the higher average SAT scores.



It is a bit naive to compare cost per pupil between public and private
schools, since public schools in the main pay their staffs decently, and
are also burdened with trying to correct most of the ills of society
dumped on kids with impoverished parents, have to provide programs for
intellectually and emotionally challenged kids, and don't have the
advantage of cherry picking their students. But, hey, it's just math,
right?

Good grief. You are hopeless.