NotNow wrote:
Yogi of Woodstock wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 06:15:05 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:07:39 -0700, Calif Bill wrote:


30 or so years ago I duck humted with the weapons officer of one of the
bay area police forces. He stated, the average police shootout is at
6', 9 shots are fired and no one is hit. Hard to aim when ducking for
cover.
NYPD did an analysis of police combat. Your weapons officer friend
isn't too far off the mark. I've also heard, can't swear to it's
veracity, but the average cop never pulls his gun in the line of duty.

http://www.virginiacops.org/Articles...ing/Combat.htm

True.

Add to that fact that when the combat reflexes kick in, even trained
individuals have a hard time controlling kick backs, sideways drift
and in right handers, the tendency to shoot high and to the right.
Oddly in left handers, it's not high and to the right, but low and to
the left.

And that is the exact point where the martial artist will take his
pistol and cram it up his fat ass.

But Harry is a special individual - a very accomlished target shooter
as I understand it. So maybe.

Uh, yeah.......

Did I ever tell you about the time I shot the gun out of a bungler's
hand with a single shot, then held him at bay with my pickup truck?

--
Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq.

This Newsgroup post is a natural product. The slight variations in
spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in
no way are to be considered flaws or defects

"jps" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:54:42 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:25:11 -0400, H the K
wrote:

On 7/22/09 9:11 PM, Gene wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:08:54 -0700, wrote:
p

Oh for ****'s sake Gene, you're assuming whomever is weidling the
knife is an expert.

Flawed logic.

The guy in this case obviously meant to kill both women but left one
alive. Sound like a knife expert to you? Neither of the women were
armed from what I understand.

Any dweeb with two hands and an arse can put a bullet through
someone's skull at close range. What's the chance of survival?

And I suppose merely being in possession of a gun somehow imbues the
wielder with magical powers of perfect aim......

At 10 feet with a target the size of an adult human and some
considerable experience handling and shooting firearms?

You don't need perfect aim, just "decent" aim.

I suppose you haven't seen those police dash camera pictures where
trained police officers fire lots of ammo without hitting anyone.
What you can do on the range may not translate to what you can do in
bad light, when you are not really prepared and under more than a
little stress.

We're talking about knives vs. guns. In the same circumstances, the
knife is going to be just as difficult to handle as a deadly weapon as
a gun.

A shaking knife hand will probably be more dangerous than a shaking gun
hand.

Just Regigie wrote:
NotNow wrote:
Yogi of Woodstock wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 06:15:05 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:07:39 -0700, Calif Bill wrote:


30 or so years ago I duck humted with the weapons officer of one of
the
bay area police forces. He stated, the average police shootout is at
6', 9 shots are fired and no one is hit. Hard to aim when ducking for
cover.
NYPD did an analysis of police combat. Your weapons officer friend
isn't too far off the mark. I've also heard, can't swear to it's
veracity, but the average cop never pulls his gun in the line of duty.

http://www.virginiacops.org/Articles...ing/Combat.htm

True.

Add to that fact that when the combat reflexes kick in, even trained
individuals have a hard time controlling kick backs, sideways drift
and in right handers, the tendency to shoot high and to the right.
Oddly in left handers, it's not high and to the right, but low and to
the left.

And that is the exact point where the martial artist will take his
pistol and cram it up his fat ass.

But Harry is a special individual - a very accomlished target shooter
as I understand it. So maybe.

Uh, yeah.......

Did I ever tell you about the time I shot the gun out of a bungler's
hand with a single shot, then held him at bay with my pickup truck?


Didn't you get a fireboat welcome for that bravery?

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:37:39 -0400, "D.Duck" wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:54:42 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:25:11 -0400, H the K
wrote:

On 7/22/09 9:11 PM, Gene wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:08:54 -0700, wrote:
p

Oh for ****'s sake Gene, you're assuming whomever is weidling the
knife is an expert.

Flawed logic.

The guy in this case obviously meant to kill both women but left one
alive. Sound like a knife expert to you? Neither of the women were
armed from what I understand.

Any dweeb with two hands and an arse can put a bullet through
someone's skull at close range. What's the chance of survival?

And I suppose merely being in possession of a gun somehow imbues the
wielder with magical powers of perfect aim......

At 10 feet with a target the size of an adult human and some
considerable experience handling and shooting firearms?

You don't need perfect aim, just "decent" aim.

I suppose you haven't seen those police dash camera pictures where
trained police officers fire lots of ammo without hitting anyone.
What you can do on the range may not translate to what you can do in
bad light, when you are not really prepared and under more than a
little stress.

We're talking about knives vs. guns. In the same circumstances, the
knife is going to be just as difficult to handle as a deadly weapon as
a gun.

A shaking knife hand will probably be more dangerous than a shaking gun
hand.

While true in the abstract, somebody who uses a knife is more sure of
the results than a person handling a gun.

On 7/23/09 10:59 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 06:26:51 -0400, H the
wrote:

On 7/22/09 11:05 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:17:24 -0400, H the
wrote:

Oh...I've taken Sig's Close Quarter Operator's Course.



... and nobody told you not to put your finger in the trigger guard
before you are going to shoot?
That has been in self defense and police tactical shooting courses for
decades. We were even starting to incorporate that into skeet shooting
etiquette when I was in Md. Call the bird, point the gun, acquire the
target, then put your finger in the hole and shoot, It is just a habit
you should get into.

This is best demonstrated in one of the most famous cop pictures in
the world.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Gonzoles.jpg



Heheh...you just keep on keepin' on. When you are in close quarters and
someone is coming at you with a knife, it's time to put your finger
inside the trigger guard and on the trigger so you can shoot. We're not
talking birds here.

What would *you* wait for before putting your finger on the trigger and
pulling it? Getting slashed or stabbed? Hey, you have to be careful
around washed-up old marines wielding knives.


It is all training. If that is what you were trained to do that time
is insignificant. It reduces the chances of accidental discharge to
almost zero. In a state like Maryland where any shooting, accidental
or not is likely to draw a charge, that is an important thing to
consider.
EVERY police agency of any consequence teaches this protocol and you
will be taught this in any credible gun handling course.
It actually does help you point the gun faster in low light situations
since you are just pointing your finger at the target.

I agree you have to practice this a lot to build the muscle memory but
it is worth doing.


Yeah, well, if someone is 10' away and moving in with a knife, I'm
already shooting. Any discharge will not be accidental.

I'm well aware of the need to keep my finger off the trigger out of the
guard until I am about to shoot. Under the circumstances we've been
discussing, a knife attacker at close range moving in for the kill...I
am about to shoot. Am I supposed to wait until I feel his breath on my
eyelids?





--
A wise Latina makes better decisions than a dumb elephant.

H the K wrote:
On 7/23/09 10:59 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 06:26:51 -0400, H the
wrote:

On 7/22/09 11:05 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:17:24 -0400, H the
wrote:

Oh...I've taken Sig's Close Quarter Operator's Course.



... and nobody told you not to put your finger in the trigger guard
before you are going to shoot?
That has been in self defense and police tactical shooting courses for
decades. We were even starting to incorporate that into skeet shooting
etiquette when I was in Md. Call the bird, point the gun, acquire the
target, then put your finger in the hole and shoot, It is just a habit
you should get into.

This is best demonstrated in one of the most famous cop pictures in
the world.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Gonzoles.jpg



Heheh...you just keep on keepin' on. When you are in close quarters and
someone is coming at you with a knife, it's time to put your finger
inside the trigger guard and on the trigger so you can shoot. We're not
talking birds here.

What would *you* wait for before putting your finger on the trigger and
pulling it? Getting slashed or stabbed? Hey, you have to be careful
around washed-up old marines wielding knives.


It is all training. If that is what you were trained to do that time
is insignificant. It reduces the chances of accidental discharge to
almost zero. In a state like Maryland where any shooting, accidental
or not is likely to draw a charge, that is an important thing to
consider.
EVERY police agency of any consequence teaches this protocol and you
will be taught this in any credible gun handling course.
It actually does help you point the gun faster in low light situations
since you are just pointing your finger at the target.

I agree you have to practice this a lot to build the muscle memory but
it is worth doing.


Yeah, well, if someone is 10' away and moving in with a knife, I'm
already shooting. Any discharge will not be accidental.

I'm well aware of the need to keep my finger off the trigger out of the
guard until I am about to shoot. Under the circumstances we've been
discussing, a knife attacker at close range moving in for the kill...I
am about to shoot. Am I supposed to wait until I feel his breath on my
eyelids?






You da man. For a liberal, you sure seem to be infatuated with
shooting someone. You should probably move to Texas.

--
Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq.

This Newsgroup post is a natural product. The slight variations in
spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in
no way are to be considered flaws or defects

Just Regigie wrote:
H the K wrote:
On 7/23/09 10:59 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 06:26:51 -0400, H the
wrote:

On 7/22/09 11:05 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:17:24 -0400, H the
wrote:

Oh...I've taken Sig's Close Quarter Operator's Course.



... and nobody told you not to put your finger in the trigger guard
before you are going to shoot?
That has been in self defense and police tactical shooting courses for
decades. We were even starting to incorporate that into skeet shooting
etiquette when I was in Md. Call the bird, point the gun, acquire the
target, then put your finger in the hole and shoot, It is just a habit
you should get into.

This is best demonstrated in one of the most famous cop pictures in
the world.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Gonzoles.jpg



Heheh...you just keep on keepin' on. When you are in close quarters and
someone is coming at you with a knife, it's time to put your finger
inside the trigger guard and on the trigger so you can shoot. We're not
talking birds here.

What would *you* wait for before putting your finger on the trigger and
pulling it? Getting slashed or stabbed? Hey, you have to be careful
around washed-up old marines wielding knives.


It is all training. If that is what you were trained to do that time
is insignificant. It reduces the chances of accidental discharge to
almost zero. In a state like Maryland where any shooting, accidental
or not is likely to draw a charge, that is an important thing to
consider.
EVERY police agency of any consequence teaches this protocol and you
will be taught this in any credible gun handling course.
It actually does help you point the gun faster in low light situations
since you are just pointing your finger at the target.

I agree you have to practice this a lot to build the muscle memory but
it is worth doing.


Yeah, well, if someone is 10' away and moving in with a knife, I'm
already shooting. Any discharge will not be accidental.

I'm well aware of the need to keep my finger off the trigger out of
the guard until I am about to shoot. Under the circumstances we've
been discussing, a knife attacker at close range moving in for the
kill...I am about to shoot. Am I supposed to wait until I feel his
breath on my eyelids?






You da man. For a liberal, you sure seem to be infatuated with
shooting someone. You should probably move to Texas.


Remember a few years ago? Harry used to go around saying that people
used guns as a substitute for a penis? Wonder what happened to Harry's?!

On Jul 23, 11:07*am, H the K wrote:
On 7/23/09 10:59 AM, wrote:





On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 06:26:51 -0400, H the
wrote:

On 7/22/09 11:05 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:17:24 -0400, H the
wrote:

Oh...I've taken Sig's Close Quarter Operator's Course.

... and nobody told you not to put your finger in the trigger guard
before you are going to shoot?
That has been in self defense and police tactical shooting courses for
decades. We were even starting to incorporate that into skeet shooting
etiquette when I was in Md. Call the bird, point the gun, acquire the
target, then put your finger in the hole and shoot, It is just a habit
you should get into.

This is best demonstrated in one of the most famous cop pictures in
the world.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Gonzoles.jpg

Heheh...you just keep on keepin' on. When you are in close quarters and
* someone is coming at you with a knife, it's time to put your finger
inside the trigger guard and on the trigger so you can shoot. We're not
talking birds here.

What would *you* wait for before putting your finger on the trigger and
pulling it? Getting slashed or stabbed? Hey, you have to be careful
around washed-up old marines wielding knives.

It is all training. If that is what you were trained to do that time
is insignificant. It reduces the chances of accidental discharge to
almost zero. In a state like Maryland where any shooting, accidental
or not is likely to draw a charge, that is an important thing to
consider.
EVERY police agency of any consequence teaches this protocol and you
will be taught this in any credible gun handling course.
It actually does help you point the gun faster in low light situations
since you are just pointing your finger at the target.

I agree you have to practice this a lot to build the muscle memory but
it is worth doing.

Yeah, well, if someone is 10' away and moving in with a knife, I'm
already shooting. Any discharge will not be accidental.

Except for the wet spot in your pants.

~SNERK~

NotNow wrote:
Just Regigie wrote:
H the K wrote:
On 7/23/09 10:59 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 06:26:51 -0400, H the
wrote:

On 7/22/09 11:05 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:17:24 -0400, H the
wrote:

Oh...I've taken Sig's Close Quarter Operator's Course.



... and nobody told you not to put your finger in the trigger guard
before you are going to shoot?
That has been in self defense and police tactical shooting courses
for
decades. We were even starting to incorporate that into skeet
shooting
etiquette when I was in Md. Call the bird, point the gun, acquire the
target, then put your finger in the hole and shoot, It is just a
habit
you should get into.

This is best demonstrated in one of the most famous cop pictures in
the world.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Gonzoles.jpg



Heheh...you just keep on keepin' on. When you are in close quarters
and
someone is coming at you with a knife, it's time to put your finger
inside the trigger guard and on the trigger so you can shoot. We're
not
talking birds here.

What would *you* wait for before putting your finger on the trigger
and
pulling it? Getting slashed or stabbed? Hey, you have to be careful
around washed-up old marines wielding knives.


It is all training. If that is what you were trained to do that time
is insignificant. It reduces the chances of accidental discharge to
almost zero. In a state like Maryland where any shooting, accidental
or not is likely to draw a charge, that is an important thing to
consider.
EVERY police agency of any consequence teaches this protocol and you
will be taught this in any credible gun handling course.
It actually does help you point the gun faster in low light situations
since you are just pointing your finger at the target.

I agree you have to practice this a lot to build the muscle memory but
it is worth doing.


Yeah, well, if someone is 10' away and moving in with a knife, I'm
already shooting. Any discharge will not be accidental.

I'm well aware of the need to keep my finger off the trigger out of
the guard until I am about to shoot. Under the circumstances we've
been discussing, a knife attacker at close range moving in for the
kill...I am about to shoot. Am I supposed to wait until I feel his
breath on my eyelids?






You da man. For a liberal, you sure seem to be infatuated with
shooting someone. You should probably move to Texas.


Remember a few years ago? Harry used to go around saying that people
used guns as a substitute for a penis? Wonder what happened to Harry's?!

It got lost in a roll of fat

--
Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq.

This Newsgroup post is a natural product. The slight variations in
spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in
no way are to be considered flaws or defects

NotNow wrote:
Just Regigie wrote:
H the K wrote:
On 7/23/09 10:59 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 06:26:51 -0400, H the
wrote:

On 7/22/09 11:05 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:17:24 -0400, H the
wrote:

Oh...I've taken Sig's Close Quarter Operator's Course.



... and nobody told you not to put your finger in the trigger guard
before you are going to shoot?
That has been in self defense and police tactical shooting courses
for
decades. We were even starting to incorporate that into skeet
shooting
etiquette when I was in Md. Call the bird, point the gun, acquire the
target, then put your finger in the hole and shoot, It is just a
habit
you should get into.

This is best demonstrated in one of the most famous cop pictures in
the world.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Gonzoles.jpg



Heheh...you just keep on keepin' on. When you are in close quarters
and
someone is coming at you with a knife, it's time to put your finger
inside the trigger guard and on the trigger so you can shoot. We're
not
talking birds here.

What would *you* wait for before putting your finger on the trigger
and
pulling it? Getting slashed or stabbed? Hey, you have to be careful
around washed-up old marines wielding knives.


It is all training. If that is what you were trained to do that time
is insignificant. It reduces the chances of accidental discharge to
almost zero. In a state like Maryland where any shooting, accidental
or not is likely to draw a charge, that is an important thing to
consider.
EVERY police agency of any consequence teaches this protocol and you
will be taught this in any credible gun handling course.
It actually does help you point the gun faster in low light situations
since you are just pointing your finger at the target.

I agree you have to practice this a lot to build the muscle memory but
it is worth doing.


Yeah, well, if someone is 10' away and moving in with a knife, I'm
already shooting. Any discharge will not be accidental.

I'm well aware of the need to keep my finger off the trigger out of
the guard until I am about to shoot. Under the circumstances we've
been discussing, a knife attacker at close range moving in for the
kill...I am about to shoot. Am I supposed to wait until I feel his
breath on my eyelids?






You da man. For a liberal, you sure seem to be infatuated with
shooting someone. You should probably move to Texas.


Remember a few years ago? Harry used to go around saying that people
used guns as a substitute for a penis? Wonder what happened to Harry's?!

snerk