J i m wrote:
Lu Powell wrote:

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 01:06:07 -0700, jps wrote:

I think you have finally argued full circle. In order for a knife to
be an effective weapon, the wielder must be expert and, by your own
admission, a gun is just as difficult to handle as a knife.

Therefore, for a gun to be an effective weapon, the wielder must
be an
expert.

Now, maybe you are ready to understand the next logical step,
"Weapons
don't kill people, people kill people." Once there, perhaps you'll be
ready to develop effective strategies to stop violence. Historically,
something no amount of "take the weapons away" legislation has
done....
You don't have to be an expert with a gun to kill someone from 10 or
15 feet. You'd certainly have to be an expert with a knife or any
other sharp instrument from 10 or 15 feet.

I'm sure that doesn't make any sense to an NRA supporter.


The issue is not 10 or 15 feet away, it is how fast you can close that
distance and once you are face to face, anyone swinging and stabbing
with a knife is deadly. It takes an expert to keep from being
killed. Any reasonably healthy person is quicker in 10 feet (the
original
challenge) than the fastest drag racer. That is an old beer bet you
can't lose.
I suppose the real challenge for the gunslinger is can you actually
have the presence of mind to place a "kill shot", in a fraction of a
second, on an attacker who is lunging at you with a knife, that drops
them before they stab you. Without extensive training, I bet most
people freeze. Shooting them in the belly or the leg won't do it.
You will both die
in the same big pool of blood.


I dunno. If a really ****ed zombie came after me with a knife in hand
from 165 feet away, and I had my SIG in hand ready to shoot, I have a
feeling I could pretty much empty a mag in him as I stepped backwards.

How many shots in the kill zone do you think it take to drop a zombie?




--
Whatever moral rules you have proposed, abide by them as they were
laws, and as if you would be guilty of impiety by violating any of
them, *unless* you are a conservative Republican office holder or
minister. If that is your position in life, then anything goes.

Don't bet on it. Before I was a police chief, I spent several years
teaching firearms and combat shooting to recruits, as well as veteran
officers. I've been in a couple of shooting scrapes myself, and have
investigated officer-involved shootings. I have seen situations where
highly trained officers while under extreme stress failed to hit a
man-sized target five yards away. I was present at a armed gunman
situation and saw an officer empty his 12 gauge pump shotgun at the
suspect - emptied it by pumping all five live rounds on the ground. He
later complained the shotgun jammed. The video tape proved him wrong.

I have also seen cases of extaordinary shooting skill by officers who
barely qualified on the combat range during periodic re-qualification.

If you haven't been in a live shooting situation, with its tremendous
stress, you are a fool to claim you will do anything with accuracy.
Such bravado will get you killed. If you don't want to give me any
credibility on the subject, ask any military veteran about their
performance the first time they were in a hot zone.

BTW, I hit my real moving target one time out of three at a distance
of 20 yards, and I consistently fired expert on the pistol range.

You are underestimating the stupidity of Harry Krause, Lou. Anyone with
a lick of sense would first attempt to extract himself from the
situation. I don't know where Krause is getting his cowboy training, but
he should seek out more responsible trainers, for his own good.

Harry is familiar with using deadly force, he once held a criminal at
bay with his pick'em up truck.

The man is fearless.

--
Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq.

This Newsgroup post is a natural product. The slight variations in
spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in
no way are to be considered flaws or defects

Just Regigie wrote:
J i m wrote:
Lu Powell wrote:

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 01:06:07 -0700, jps wrote:

I think you have finally argued full circle. In order for a knife to
be an effective weapon, the wielder must be expert and, by your own
admission, a gun is just as difficult to handle as a knife.

Therefore, for a gun to be an effective weapon, the wielder must
be an
expert.

Now, maybe you are ready to understand the next logical step,
"Weapons
don't kill people, people kill people." Once there, perhaps
you'll be
ready to develop effective strategies to stop violence.
Historically,
something no amount of "take the weapons away" legislation has
done....
You don't have to be an expert with a gun to kill someone from 10 or
15 feet. You'd certainly have to be an expert with a knife or any
other sharp instrument from 10 or 15 feet.

I'm sure that doesn't make any sense to an NRA supporter.


The issue is not 10 or 15 feet away, it is how fast you can close that
distance and once you are face to face, anyone swinging and stabbing
with a knife is deadly. It takes an expert to keep from being
killed. Any reasonably healthy person is quicker in 10 feet (the
original
challenge) than the fastest drag racer. That is an old beer bet you
can't lose.
I suppose the real challenge for the gunslinger is can you actually
have the presence of mind to place a "kill shot", in a fraction of a
second, on an attacker who is lunging at you with a knife, that drops
them before they stab you. Without extensive training, I bet most
people freeze. Shooting them in the belly or the leg won't do it.
You will both die
in the same big pool of blood.


I dunno. If a really ****ed zombie came after me with a knife in
hand from 165 feet away, and I had my SIG in hand ready to shoot, I
have a feeling I could pretty much empty a mag in him as I stepped
backwards.

How many shots in the kill zone do you think it take to drop a zombie?




--
Whatever moral rules you have proposed, abide by them as they were
laws, and as if you would be guilty of impiety by violating any of
them, *unless* you are a conservative Republican office holder or
minister. If that is your position in life, then anything goes.

Don't bet on it. Before I was a police chief, I spent several years
teaching firearms and combat shooting to recruits, as well as veteran
officers. I've been in a couple of shooting scrapes myself, and have
investigated officer-involved shootings. I have seen situations where
highly trained officers while under extreme stress failed to hit a
man-sized target five yards away. I was present at a armed gunman
situation and saw an officer empty his 12 gauge pump shotgun at the
suspect - emptied it by pumping all five live rounds on the ground.
He later complained the shotgun jammed. The video tape proved him wrong.

I have also seen cases of extaordinary shooting skill by officers who
barely qualified on the combat range during periodic re-qualification.

If you haven't been in a live shooting situation, with its tremendous
stress, you are a fool to claim you will do anything with accuracy.
Such bravado will get you killed. If you don't want to give me any
credibility on the subject, ask any military veteran about their
performance the first time they were in a hot zone.

BTW, I hit my real moving target one time out of three at a distance
of 20 yards, and I consistently fired expert on the pistol range.

You are underestimating the stupidity of Harry Krause, Lou. Anyone
with a lick of sense would first attempt to extract himself from the
situation. I don't know where Krause is getting his cowboy training,
but he should seek out more responsible trainers, for his own good.

Harry is familiar with using deadly force, he once held a criminal at
bay with his pick'em up truck.

The man is fearless.

The man is, well never mind. That's another story.

J i m wrote:
Just Regigie wrote:


You are underestimating the stupidity of Harry Krause, Lou. Anyone
with a lick of sense would first attempt to extract himself from the
situation. I don't know where Krause is getting his cowboy training,
but he should seek out more responsible trainers, for his own good.

Harry is familiar with using deadly force, he once held a criminal at
bay with his pick'em up truck.

The man is fearless.

The man is, well never mind. That's another story.

Did you hear the reason why Harry changed his mind on handgun ownership?


He found it too hard to carry a pickup truck in his pants.

--
Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq.

This Newsgroup post is a natural product. The slight variations in
spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in
no way are to be considered flaws or defects

Just Regigie wrote:
J i m wrote:
Lu Powell wrote:

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 01:06:07 -0700, jps wrote:

I think you have finally argued full circle. In order for a knife to
be an effective weapon, the wielder must be expert and, by your own
admission, a gun is just as difficult to handle as a knife.

Therefore, for a gun to be an effective weapon, the wielder must
be an
expert.

Now, maybe you are ready to understand the next logical step,
"Weapons
don't kill people, people kill people." Once there, perhaps
you'll be
ready to develop effective strategies to stop violence.
Historically,
something no amount of "take the weapons away" legislation has
done....
You don't have to be an expert with a gun to kill someone from 10 or
15 feet. You'd certainly have to be an expert with a knife or any
other sharp instrument from 10 or 15 feet.

I'm sure that doesn't make any sense to an NRA supporter.


The issue is not 10 or 15 feet away, it is how fast you can close that
distance and once you are face to face, anyone swinging and stabbing
with a knife is deadly. It takes an expert to keep from being
killed. Any reasonably healthy person is quicker in 10 feet (the
original
challenge) than the fastest drag racer. That is an old beer bet you
can't lose.
I suppose the real challenge for the gunslinger is can you actually
have the presence of mind to place a "kill shot", in a fraction of a
second, on an attacker who is lunging at you with a knife, that drops
them before they stab you. Without extensive training, I bet most
people freeze. Shooting them in the belly or the leg won't do it.
You will both die
in the same big pool of blood.


I dunno. If a really ****ed zombie came after me with a knife in
hand from 165 feet away, and I had my SIG in hand ready to shoot, I
have a feeling I could pretty much empty a mag in him as I stepped
backwards.

How many shots in the kill zone do you think it take to drop a zombie?




--
Whatever moral rules you have proposed, abide by them as they were
laws, and as if you would be guilty of impiety by violating any of
them, *unless* you are a conservative Republican office holder or
minister. If that is your position in life, then anything goes.

Don't bet on it. Before I was a police chief, I spent several years
teaching firearms and combat shooting to recruits, as well as veteran
officers. I've been in a couple of shooting scrapes myself, and have
investigated officer-involved shootings. I have seen situations where
highly trained officers while under extreme stress failed to hit a
man-sized target five yards away. I was present at a armed gunman
situation and saw an officer empty his 12 gauge pump shotgun at the
suspect - emptied it by pumping all five live rounds on the ground.
He later complained the shotgun jammed. The video tape proved him wrong.

I have also seen cases of extaordinary shooting skill by officers who
barely qualified on the combat range during periodic re-qualification.

If you haven't been in a live shooting situation, with its tremendous
stress, you are a fool to claim you will do anything with accuracy.
Such bravado will get you killed. If you don't want to give me any
credibility on the subject, ask any military veteran about their
performance the first time they were in a hot zone.

BTW, I hit my real moving target one time out of three at a distance
of 20 yards, and I consistently fired expert on the pistol range.

You are underestimating the stupidity of Harry Krause, Lou. Anyone
with a lick of sense would first attempt to extract himself from the
situation. I don't know where Krause is getting his cowboy training,
but he should seek out more responsible trainers, for his own good.

Harry is familiar with using deadly force, he once held a criminal at
bay with his pick'em up truck.

The man is fearless.


What you are forgetting is Harry's expert knowledge about anything and
everything. Just ask him! No matter that Lu has been a police officer
most of his life and before that trained recruits in weaponry. Harry
just within the last couple of years took to gun ownership, and knows
all about any situation that may arise and he knows just how he'd react.

Lu Powell wrote:


Don't bet on it. Before I was a police chief



Is your real name Theophilus Eugene Connor? It's hard to envision a
non-thinking racist like you as a cop, let alone a "police chief."
Well, maybe not. Was it in the south?

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:


Don't bet on it. Before I was a police chief



Is your real name Theophilus Eugene Connor? It's hard to envision a
non-thinking racist like you as a cop, let alone a "police chief."
Well, maybe not. Was it in the south?

You are a first class clownish fool. Trying to reason with you is an
exercise in futility. Don't you see how most of the folks in this forum view
you? Do you really think "WAFA" is a term of endearment?

My police career was one of honor and pride. The same is true of my military
active duty and reserve stints spanning more than thirty years. For you to
try to belittle that with your idiotic barbs while lacking any information
is insanity in its purest form.

BTW, "Bull" Connor made no bones about being a bigot. You, on the other hand
are blind to your own bigotry, which is patently obvious to everybody who
reads your posts. WAFA.

Lu Powell wrote:

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:


Don't bet on it. Before I was a police chief



Is your real name Theophilus Eugene Connor? It's hard to envision a
non-thinking racist like you as a cop, let alone a "police chief."
Well, maybe not. Was it in the south?

You are a first class clownish fool. Trying to reason with you is an
exercise in futility. Don't you see how most of the folks in this forum
view you? Do you really think "WAFA" is a term of endearment?

My police career was one of honor and pride. The same is true of my
military active duty and reserve stints spanning more than thirty years.
For you to try to belittle that with your idiotic barbs while lacking
any information is insanity in its purest form.

BTW, "Bull" Connor made no bones about being a bigot. You, on the other
hand are blind to your own bigotry, which is patently obvious to
everybody who reads your posts. WAFA.




Notice what a bigot the asshole is?

Lu Powell wrote:

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:


Don't bet on it. Before I was a police chief



Is your real name Theophilus Eugene Connor? It's hard to envision a
non-thinking racist like you as a cop, let alone a "police chief."
Well, maybe not. Was it in the south?

You are a first class clownish fool. Trying to reason with you is an
exercise in futility. Don't you see how most of the folks in this forum
view you? Do you really think "WAFA" is a term of endearment?

My police career was one of honor and pride. The same is true of my
military active duty and reserve stints spanning more than thirty years.
For you to try to belittle that with your idiotic barbs while lacking
any information is insanity in its purest form.

BTW, "Bull" Connor made no bones about being a bigot. You, on the other
hand are blind to your own bigotry, which is patently obvious to
everybody who reads your posts. WAFA.


Indeed, Lucius, I make no bones about my dislike for the "modern day"
Republican conservatives, who have spent the last decade doing their
best to ruin this country. In fact, they've pretty much succeeded. But I
don't dislike them because of their race, gender preference, age, or
religion.

Oh, and I'm also not a big fan of the police as an institution, though I
do believe there are many honorable, brave, hard-working policemen.
Police corruption is pretty much institutionalized in too many
departments, large and small, and far too often police and prosecutors
work too hard to convict the poor, black, and innocent. I'm sure you
recall a case like that.



--
Whatever moral rules you have proposed, abide by them as they were laws,
and as if you would be guilty of impiety by violating any of them,
*unless* you are a conservative Republican office holder or minister. If
that is your position in life, then anything goes.

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:


Don't bet on it. Before I was a police chief



Is your real name Theophilus Eugene Connor? It's hard to envision a
non-thinking racist like you as a cop, let alone a "police chief."
Well, maybe not. Was it in the south?

You are a first class clownish fool. Trying to reason with you is an
exercise in futility. Don't you see how most of the folks in this forum
view you? Do you really think "WAFA" is a term of endearment?

My police career was one of honor and pride. The same is true of my
military active duty and reserve stints spanning more than thirty years.
For you to try to belittle that with your idiotic barbs while lacking any
information is insanity in its purest form.

BTW, "Bull" Connor made no bones about being a bigot. You, on the other
hand are blind to your own bigotry, which is patently obvious to
everybody who reads your posts. WAFA.


Indeed, Lucius, I make no bones about my dislike for the "modern day"
Republican conservatives, who have spent the last decade doing their best
to ruin this country. In fact, they've pretty much succeeded. But I don't
dislike them because of their race, gender preference, age, or religion.

Oh, and I'm also not a big fan of the police as an institution, though I
do believe there are many honorable, brave, hard-working policemen. Police
corruption is pretty much institutionalized in too many departments, large
and small, and far too often police and prosecutors work too hard to
convict the poor, black, and innocent. I'm sure you recall a case like
that.



--
Whatever moral rules you have proposed, abide by them as they were laws,
and as if you would be guilty of impiety by violating any of them,
*unless* you are a conservative Republican office holder or minister. If
that is your position in life, then anything goes.

Whatever, WAFA. Where did you copy and paste that monogram?

Lu Powell wrote:

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
Lu Powell wrote:


Don't bet on it. Before I was a police chief



Is your real name Theophilus Eugene Connor? It's hard to envision a
non-thinking racist like you as a cop, let alone a "police chief."
Well, maybe not. Was it in the south?

You are a first class clownish fool. Trying to reason with you is an
exercise in futility. Don't you see how most of the folks in this
forum view you? Do you really think "WAFA" is a term of endearment?

My police career was one of honor and pride. The same is true of my
military active duty and reserve stints spanning more than thirty
years. For you to try to belittle that with your idiotic barbs while
lacking any information is insanity in its purest form.

BTW, "Bull" Connor made no bones about being a bigot. You, on the
other hand are blind to your own bigotry, which is patently obvious
to everybody who reads your posts. WAFA.


Indeed, Lucius, I make no bones about my dislike for the "modern day"
Republican conservatives, who have spent the last decade doing their
best to ruin this country. In fact, they've pretty much succeeded. But
I don't dislike them because of their race, gender preference, age, or
religion.

Oh, and I'm also not a big fan of the police as an institution, though
I do believe there are many honorable, brave, hard-working policemen.
Police corruption is pretty much institutionalized in too many
departments, large and small, and far too often police and prosecutors
work too hard to convict the poor, black, and innocent. I'm sure you
recall a case like that.



--
Whatever moral rules you have proposed, abide by them as they were
laws, and as if you would be guilty of impiety by violating any of
them, *unless* you are a conservative Republican office holder or
minister. If that is your position in life, then anything goes.

Whatever, WAFA. Where did you copy and paste that monogram?



Surely you recall at least one case in all your years as a police chief
in which bad police work resulted in the arrest, trial and incarceration
of an innocent man.





--
Whatever moral rules you have proposed, abide by them as they were laws,
and as if you would be guilty of impiety by violating any of them,
*unless* you are a conservative Republican office holder or minister. If
that is your position in life, then anything goes.