Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:12:43 -0400, H the K
wrote:

From 10 feet away, if someone came after me with a knife in a fight and
I were holding my SIG X-5, he'd be on the ground dying from three taps
to the chest. Especially if the guy with the knife were an old fart. You
know, a guy your age or Gene's age.

IF it were me, you'd be dead before you even got the gun out of the
holster.

Holster? Who would have a firearm in a holster when facing an old marine
with a knife?

No one your age is faster than a speeding bullet...or three.


--
A wise Latina makes better decisions than a dumb elephant.

wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:12:43 -0400, H the K
wrote:

Yogi of Woodstock wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:36:30 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote:

The fact that this study is flawed is found in the assertion "The
distribution of wounds is different for knife assaults and gun
assaults, since victims of knife assaults have more chance to dodge
and block," which is ridiculously untrue.

For those with proper training, inside of about 10 feet, I'll take the
knife and you can have the gun. I'll never lose and you'll never see
the knife.
Ahem - without getting into specifics, you are absoutely 100% correct.

B.S. Bravado.

From 10 feet away, if someone came after me with a knife in a fight and
I were holding my SIG X-5, he'd be on the ground dying from three taps
to the chest. Especially if the guy with the knife were an old fart. You
know, a guy your age or Gene's age.

Closer than 10 feet, you're assuming the guy with the pistola is
standing around and waiting for the perp and his knife to close in...


At one of my CCW classes the instructor demonstrated this. Nobody
could draw and fire an aimed shot before he got them, even from a
fannie pack, worn in front with your hand on the gun. The problem is
reaction time from the time you see the guy move until you start
moving. We are talking a fraction of a second here.
I suppose some of those cowboy action shooters can do this but they
train several hours a day ... and they know when it's coming.
I really do think he was trying to drum up business for his self
defense course since the answer was deflecting the knife, then
shooting the guy as demonstrated by his assistant.
My thought was if you are that good why do you need to shoot him? Just
take the knife away and stab him.


Note that I did not say "draw and fire..."

Note that I said "...holding my SIG X-5..."

If I were facing the situation as described, the pistol would be drawn,
and my finger would be on the trigger.

Never take a knife to a gun fight...good advice.





--
A wise Latina makes better decisions than a dumb elephant.

H the K wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:12:43 -0400, H the K
wrote:

Yogi of Woodstock wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:36:30 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote:

The fact that this study is flawed is found in the assertion "The
distribution of wounds is different for knife assaults and gun
assaults, since victims of knife assaults have more chance to dodge
and block," which is ridiculously untrue.

For those with proper training, inside of about 10 feet, I'll take the
knife and you can have the gun. I'll never lose and you'll never see
the knife.
Ahem - without getting into specifics, you are absoutely 100% correct.

B.S. Bravado.

From 10 feet away, if someone came after me with a knife in a fight
and I were holding my SIG X-5, he'd be on the ground dying from three
taps to the chest. Especially if the guy with the knife were an old
fart. You know, a guy your age or Gene's age.

Closer than 10 feet, you're assuming the guy with the pistola is
standing around and waiting for the perp and his knife to close in...


At one of my CCW classes the instructor demonstrated this. Nobody
could draw and fire an aimed shot before he got them, even from a
fannie pack, worn in front with your hand on the gun. The problem is
reaction time from the time you see the guy move until you start
moving. We are talking a fraction of a second here.
I suppose some of those cowboy action shooters can do this but they
train several hours a day ... and they know when it's coming.
I really do think he was trying to drum up business for his self
defense course since the answer was deflecting the knife, then
shooting the guy as demonstrated by his assistant.
My thought was if you are that good why do you need to shoot him? Just
take the knife away and stab him.


Note that I did not say "draw and fire..."

Note that I said "...holding my SIG X-5..."

If I were facing the situation as described, the pistol would be drawn,
and my finger would be on the trigger.

Never take a knife to a gun fight...good advice.

Harry, do you remember all those comments about those people with tiny
dicks that used handguns to compensate for their short-comings. By
jove, I think you were right.


--
Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq.

This Newsgroup post is a natural product. The slight variations in
spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in
no way are to be considered flaws or defects

wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:13:23 -0400, H the K
wrote:

Closer than 10 feet, you're assuming the guy with the pistola is
standing around and waiting for the perp and his knife to close in...

At one of my CCW classes the instructor demonstrated this. Nobody
could draw and fire an aimed shot before he got them, even from a
fannie pack, worn in front with your hand on the gun. The problem is
reaction time from the time you see the guy move until you start
moving. We are talking a fraction of a second here.
I suppose some of those cowboy action shooters can do this but they
train several hours a day ... and they know when it's coming.
I really do think he was trying to drum up business for his self
defense course since the answer was deflecting the knife, then
shooting the guy as demonstrated by his assistant.
My thought was if you are that good why do you need to shoot him? Just
take the knife away and stab him.

Note that I did not say "draw and fire..."

Note that I said "...holding my SIG X-5..."

If I were facing the situation as described, the pistol would be drawn,
and my finger would be on the trigger.

Never take a knife to a gun fight...good advice.


The flaw in that plan is it is illegal to draw your weapon until you
have an imminent threat of bodily harm. You can't just pull your gun
to scare someone, just because you think they are hinkey, That is
"brandishing" a crime itself.
Unless the guy is actually threatening you with the knife, you there
is not an imminent threat. As soon as there is, you might as well just
shoot him. (the other part of the lesson). You just have to be sure
you are right.

Of course this is all moot in Maryland. If you shot a guy on the
street who was stabbing your wife at the time, they would throw you in
jail for the gun violation. It is virtually impossible to carry a
pistol legally in Md. Maryland is also a "retreat" state. You can't
even use deadly force to defend your home if there is any opportunity
to run away. (I know a guy who did time for that one)


1. Who said the gun would be drawn to scare someone? You're adding all
sorts of "value" to the posit here.

2. In Maryland, if you have a conceal-carry permit and you are walking
along with your wife and The Freak comes out of an alley and stabs here,
you are not going to go to jail for defending your wife or yourself. You
certainly do need a permit in Maryland to carry.

3. I am more than willing to take my chances with the legal system by
blowing away a home invader. There are more holes in the concept of
"retreat" than in a circle of Swiss cheese. "I retreated to the garage
but The Freak followed me in there, brandishing his machete, so I shot
his head clean off." "The Freak chased me around the second floor of our
house, I jumped through a window and he followed...so I shot him six
times..." And so forth.





--
A wise Latina makes better decisions than a dumb elephant.

wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:12:43 -0400, H the K
wrote:

Yogi of Woodstock wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:36:30 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote:

The fact that this study is flawed is found in the assertion "The
distribution of wounds is different for knife assaults and gun
assaults, since victims of knife assaults have more chance to dodge
and block," which is ridiculously untrue.

For those with proper training, inside of about 10 feet, I'll take the
knife and you can have the gun. I'll never lose and you'll never see
the knife.
Ahem - without getting into specifics, you are absoutely 100% correct.

B.S. Bravado.

From 10 feet away, if someone came after me with a knife in a fight and
I were holding my SIG X-5, he'd be on the ground dying from three taps
to the chest. Especially if the guy with the knife were an old fart. You
know, a guy your age or Gene's age.

Closer than 10 feet, you're assuming the guy with the pistola is
standing around and waiting for the perp and his knife to close in...


At one of my CCW classes the instructor demonstrated this. Nobody
could draw and fire an aimed shot before he got them, even from a
fannie pack, worn in front with your hand on the gun. The problem is
reaction time from the time you see the guy move until you start
moving. We are talking a fraction of a second here.
I suppose some of those cowboy action shooters can do this but they
train several hours a day ... and they know when it's coming.
I really do think he was trying to drum up business for his self
defense course since the answer was deflecting the knife, then
shooting the guy as demonstrated by his assistant.
My thought was if you are that good why do you need to shoot him? Just
take the knife away and stab him.

I don't think you should shoot or stab anybody. Just push 'em out a
window... (Remembers Archie Bunker)

wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:53:04 -0400, H the K
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:13:23 -0400, H the K
wrote:

Closer than 10 feet, you're assuming the guy with the pistola is
standing around and waiting for the perp and his knife to close in...
At one of my CCW classes the instructor demonstrated this. Nobody
could draw and fire an aimed shot before he got them, even from a
fannie pack, worn in front with your hand on the gun. The problem is
reaction time from the time you see the guy move until you start
moving. We are talking a fraction of a second here.
I suppose some of those cowboy action shooters can do this but they
train several hours a day ... and they know when it's coming.
I really do think he was trying to drum up business for his self
defense course since the answer was deflecting the knife, then
shooting the guy as demonstrated by his assistant.
My thought was if you are that good why do you need to shoot him? Just
take the knife away and stab him.
Note that I did not say "draw and fire..."

Note that I said "...holding my SIG X-5..."

If I were facing the situation as described, the pistol would be drawn,
and my finger would be on the trigger.

Never take a knife to a gun fight...good advice.

The flaw in that plan is it is illegal to draw your weapon until you
have an imminent threat of bodily harm. You can't just pull your gun
to scare someone, just because you think they are hinkey, That is
"brandishing" a crime itself.
Unless the guy is actually threatening you with the knife, you there
is not an imminent threat. As soon as there is, you might as well just
shoot him. (the other part of the lesson). You just have to be sure
you are right.

Of course this is all moot in Maryland. If you shot a guy on the
street who was stabbing your wife at the time, they would throw you in
jail for the gun violation. It is virtually impossible to carry a
pistol legally in Md. Maryland is also a "retreat" state. You can't
even use deadly force to defend your home if there is any opportunity
to run away. (I know a guy who did time for that one)

1. Who said the gun would be drawn to scare someone? You're adding all
sorts of "value" to the posit here.

You said the gun would be in your hand "with your finger on the
trigger (another serious violation of proper gun handling)"

2. In Maryland, if you have a conceal-carry permit and you are walking
along with your wife and The Freak comes out of an alley and stabs here,
you are not going to go to jail for defending your wife or yourself. You
certainly do need a permit in Maryland to carry.

... and mere mortals can't really get one. Do you have one?


3. I am more than willing to take my chances with the legal system by
blowing away a home invader. There are more holes in the concept of
"retreat" than in a circle of Swiss cheese. "I retreated to the garage
but The Freak followed me in there, brandishing his machete, so I shot
his head clean off." "The Freak chased me around the second floor of our
house, I jumped through a window and he followed...so I shot him six
times..." And so forth.

Be careful with perjury, you might make a bad situation worse if they
prove you lied.

OK here is what transpired at my friend's trial.

"would have been possible for you to run next door and call the
police"

"I might have been able to"

"but you chose to stay there and kill a man"

It went down hill from there.

This did not involve a weapon either. One punch to the throat.
They said that since he was a Recon Marine his body was a weapon.
There was also some "baby killer"sentiment there too since this was
right at the end of Vietnam and the female prosecutor hammered at the
Marine thing. (What was your training, have you ever killed anyone
with your bare hands before etc) It made me sick.

It was a chilling lesson to a lot of us.

In close range fighting, Harry can have ten widdow capguns if wants, and
I'd still stomp his nasty fat ass into the ground. Guaranteed.

NotNow wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:53:04 -0400, H the K
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:13:23 -0400, H the K
wrote:

Closer than 10 feet, you're assuming the guy with the pistola is
standing around and waiting for the perp and his knife to close
in...
At one of my CCW classes the instructor demonstrated this. Nobody
could draw and fire an aimed shot before he got them, even from a
fannie pack, worn in front with your hand on the gun. The problem is
reaction time from the time you see the guy move until you start
moving. We are talking a fraction of a second here.
I suppose some of those cowboy action shooters can do this but they
train several hours a day ... and they know when it's coming.
I really do think he was trying to drum up business for his self
defense course since the answer was deflecting the knife, then
shooting the guy as demonstrated by his assistant.
My thought was if you are that good why do you need to shoot him?
Just
take the knife away and stab him.
Note that I did not say "draw and fire..."

Note that I said "...holding my SIG X-5..."

If I were facing the situation as described, the pistol would be
drawn, and my finger would be on the trigger.

Never take a knife to a gun fight...good advice.

The flaw in that plan is it is illegal to draw your weapon until you
have an imminent threat of bodily harm. You can't just pull your gun
to scare someone, just because you think they are hinkey, That is
"brandishing" a crime itself.
Unless the guy is actually threatening you with the knife, you there
is not an imminent threat. As soon as there is, you might as well just
shoot him. (the other part of the lesson). You just have to be sure
you are right.
Of course this is all moot in Maryland. If you shot a guy on the
street who was stabbing your wife at the time, they would throw you in
jail for the gun violation. It is virtually impossible to carry a
pistol legally in Md. Maryland is also a "retreat" state. You can't
even use deadly force to defend your home if there is any opportunity
to run away. (I know a guy who did time for that one)

1. Who said the gun would be drawn to scare someone? You're adding
all sorts of "value" to the posit here.

You said the gun would be in your hand "with your finger on the
trigger (another serious violation of proper gun handling)"

2. In Maryland, if you have a conceal-carry permit and you are
walking along with your wife and The Freak comes out of an alley and
stabs here, you are not going to go to jail for defending your wife
or yourself. You certainly do need a permit in Maryland to carry.

... and mere mortals can't really get one. Do you have one?


3. I am more than willing to take my chances with the legal system by
blowing away a home invader. There are more holes in the concept of
"retreat" than in a circle of Swiss cheese. "I retreated to the
garage but The Freak followed me in there, brandishing his machete,
so I shot his head clean off." "The Freak chased me around the second
floor of our house, I jumped through a window and he followed...so I
shot him six times..." And so forth.

Be careful with perjury, you might make a bad situation worse if they
prove you lied.

OK here is what transpired at my friend's trial.

"would have been possible for you to run next door and call the
police"

"I might have been able to"
"but you chose to stay there and kill a man"

It went down hill from there.

This did not involve a weapon either. One punch to the throat.
They said that since he was a Recon Marine his body was a weapon.
There was also some "baby killer"sentiment there too since this was
right at the end of Vietnam and the female prosecutor hammered at the
Marine thing. (What was your training, have you ever killed anyone
with your bare hands before etc) It made me sick.

It was a chilling lesson to a lot of us.

In close range fighting, Harry can have ten widdow capguns if wants, and
I'd still stomp his nasty fat ass into the ground. Guaranteed.

"widdew capguns" LOL...

wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:53:04 -0400, H the K

1. Who said the gun would be drawn to scare someone? You're adding all
sorts of "value" to the posit here.

You said the gun would be in your hand "with your finger on the
trigger (another serious violation of proper gun handling)"


Yeah, in response to seeing some idiot coming at me or mine with a
knife...I don't walkabout with drawn guns.




2. In Maryland, if you have a conceal-carry permit and you are walking
along with your wife and The Freak comes out of an alley and stabs here,
you are not going to go to jail for defending your wife or yourself. You
certainly do need a permit in Maryland to carry.

... and mere mortals can't really get one. Do you have one?

:)







3. I am more than willing to take my chances with the legal system by
blowing away a home invader. There are more holes in the concept of
"retreat" than in a circle of Swiss cheese. "I retreated to the garage
but The Freak followed me in there, brandishing his machete, so I shot
his head clean off." "The Freak chased me around the second floor of our
house, I jumped through a window and he followed...so I shot him six
times..." And so forth.


Be careful with perjury, you might make a bad situation worse if they
prove yo

I'm not worried.




A wise Latina makes better decisions than a dumb elephant.

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:01:34 -0400, H the K
wrote:

Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:12:43 -0400, H the K
wrote:

From 10 feet away, if someone came after me with a knife in a fight and
I were holding my SIG X-5, he'd be on the ground dying from three taps
to the chest. Especially if the guy with the knife were an old fart. You
know, a guy your age or Gene's age.

IF it were me, you'd be dead before you even got the gun out of the
holster.

Holster? Who would have a firearm in a holster when facing an old marine
with a knife?

No one your age is faster than a speeding bullet...or three.

Harry - there are so many flaws in your argument that it's useless to
even begin to discuss it.

I honestly hope for your sake that you never, ever have to pull your
gun out to face a threat because you'd fold like a two dollar
cardboard suitcase.

"jps" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 22:55:25 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:36:04 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

just today. the victim was from St. Louis Mo.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/40830...ml?source=mypi

Guess what? One of them has survived.

Would that have happened with a gun? Nope.

He thought he had killed them both.

Bullets to the head would have made it for sure.

Glad he had a knife instead. 100% improvement on mortality rate.

Much more likely to die from a knife wound than a gun shot.

Right. Cite please.

Look it up. Most gunshot victims survive. Startling is it not? I was
taught this is the military silent weapons course. A knife wound, and I am
not meaning the nicked your hand with the knife while cutting apples, causes
massive bleeding. You die before they get you stabilized.