SteveB wrote:
While true in the abstract, somebody who uses a knife is more sure of
the results than a person handling a gun.

That is proven by the statistical fact that at a range of three feet, more
people are stabbed than wounded by gunfire. It is truly amazing that at
arm's length, a person can miss with a gun, but have better luck with a
knife.

Another thing that has not been stated: a knife is infinitely more
intimidating than a gun. If you can put some distance between you and the
perp, the dangers from either a knife or a gun drop exponentially. But up
close and personal in a fight where the two combatants are not ever
disengaged, a knife usually wins, exacts more damage, or leads to lethal
consequences.

Steve



Heard a self proclaimed, self defense "expert" talking one day about
crime in three strike states. It was years ago, I don't remember who he
was. He said the old "be nice, co-operate, and give the robber your
wallet" didn't wash anymore. If a guy already had 2 strikes he would be
just as well to get you into an alley and shoot you. Both the robbery or
a murder have the same penalty, but in the murder, he can eliminate the
possibility of you testifying against him.

He broke it down like this. If a guy pulls a gun on you:

Run, straight not back and fourth, and yell while you are running to
attract attention. "There is a 50% chance the perp won't shoot", he said.

"If he does shoot you, there is a 50% chance he will miss".

"If he hits you there is a 50% chance it won't be fatal"...

Leaving you a 87.5% chance of surviving. If you go into the alley with
him, and he is already a two striker, well I forgot the odds, but they
weren't good...

Take it for what it's worth, I don't necessarily agree or subscribe, but
it's what the guy said..

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
On 7/23/09 4:00 PM, Calif Bill wrote:
"Yogi of wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:54:42 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:25:11 -0400, H the
wrote:

On 7/22/09 9:11 PM, Gene wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:08:54 -0700, wrote:
p

Oh for ****'s sake Gene, you're assuming whomever is weidling the
knife is an expert.

Flawed logic.

The guy in this case obviously meant to kill both women but left one
alive. Sound like a knife expert to you? Neither of the women were
armed from what I understand.

Any dweeb with two hands and an arse can put a bullet through
someone's skull at close range. What's the chance of survival?

And I suppose merely being in possession of a gun somehow imbues the
wielder with magical powers of perfect aim......

At 10 feet with a target the size of an adult human and some
considerable experience handling and shooting firearms?

You don't need perfect aim, just "decent" aim.

I suppose you haven't seen those police dash camera pictures where
trained police officers fire lots of ammo without hitting anyone.
What you can do on the range may not translate to what you can do in
bad light, when you are not really prepared and under more than a
little stress.

You can also have the problem with a 9mm or .38 that even a decently
placed shot won't stop a motivated perpetrator before he can get to
you. There are lots of places on the body, even in the head with no
organs that a hole in will cause instant death. It is possible to end
up dead next to your dying attacker.

Just another case of Harry's superior abilities.

The man is truly amazing.

And if he had been in a combat role in SEA instead of a non combatant
role,
he would have ended the war single handedly. There would not be a VC
alive
today.




If I had been in charge, I would have gotten our troops out of there in
1964.




1964, That fine Democrat President LBJ cranked it up. Big Time. When I got
my draft notice signed by LBJ.

On 7/23/09 8:00 PM, Calif Bill wrote:
"H the wrote in message
m...
On 7/23/09 4:00 PM, Calif Bill wrote:
"Yogi of wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:54:42 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:25:11 -0400, H the
wrote:

On 7/22/09 9:11 PM, Gene wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:08:54 -0700, wrote:
p

Oh for ****'s sake Gene, you're assuming whomever is weidling the
knife is an expert.

Flawed logic.

The guy in this case obviously meant to kill both women but left one
alive. Sound like a knife expert to you? Neither of the women were
armed from what I understand.

Any dweeb with two hands and an arse can put a bullet through
someone's skull at close range. What's the chance of survival?

And I suppose merely being in possession of a gun somehow imbues the
wielder with magical powers of perfect aim......

At 10 feet with a target the size of an adult human and some
considerable experience handling and shooting firearms?

You don't need perfect aim, just "decent" aim.

I suppose you haven't seen those police dash camera pictures where
trained police officers fire lots of ammo without hitting anyone.
What you can do on the range may not translate to what you can do in
bad light, when you are not really prepared and under more than a
little stress.

You can also have the problem with a 9mm or .38 that even a decently
placed shot won't stop a motivated perpetrator before he can get to
you. There are lots of places on the body, even in the head with no
organs that a hole in will cause instant death. It is possible to end
up dead next to your dying attacker.

Just another case of Harry's superior abilities.

The man is truly amazing.

And if he had been in a combat role in SEA instead of a non combatant
role,
he would have ended the war single handedly. There would not be a VC
alive
today.




If I had been in charge, I would have gotten our troops out of there in
1964.




1964, That fine Democrat President LBJ cranked it up. Big Time. When I got
my draft notice signed by LBJ.



The worst mistake of his presidency. Too bad George W. Bush didn't
bother to read up on that war.

--
A wise Latina makes better decisions than a dumb elephant.

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:00:01 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"H the K" wrote in message
om...
On 7/23/09 4:00 PM, Calif Bill wrote:
"Yogi of wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:54:42 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:25:11 -0400, H the
wrote:

On 7/22/09 9:11 PM, Gene wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:08:54 -0700, wrote:
p

Oh for ****'s sake Gene, you're assuming whomever is weidling the
knife is an expert.

Flawed logic.

The guy in this case obviously meant to kill both women but left one
alive. Sound like a knife expert to you? Neither of the women were
armed from what I understand.

Any dweeb with two hands and an arse can put a bullet through
someone's skull at close range. What's the chance of survival?

And I suppose merely being in possession of a gun somehow imbues the
wielder with magical powers of perfect aim......

At 10 feet with a target the size of an adult human and some
considerable experience handling and shooting firearms?

You don't need perfect aim, just "decent" aim.

I suppose you haven't seen those police dash camera pictures where
trained police officers fire lots of ammo without hitting anyone.
What you can do on the range may not translate to what you can do in
bad light, when you are not really prepared and under more than a
little stress.

You can also have the problem with a 9mm or .38 that even a decently
placed shot won't stop a motivated perpetrator before he can get to
you. There are lots of places on the body, even in the head with no
organs that a hole in will cause instant death. It is possible to end
up dead next to your dying attacker.

Just another case of Harry's superior abilities.

The man is truly amazing.

And if he had been in a combat role in SEA instead of a non combatant
role,
he would have ended the war single handedly. There would not be a VC
alive
today.




If I had been in charge, I would have gotten our troops out of there in
1964.




1964, That fine Democrat President LBJ cranked it up. Big Time. When I got
my draft notice signed by LBJ.


Mine was June, 1965.
--

John H

On Jul 23, 2:56*pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"Yogi of Woodstock" wrote in messagenews:nglg65d6sul1vj583mmi2k0b7d9rkopt7d@4ax .com...



On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 06:53:30 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 07:37:45 -0400, H the K wrote:

http://www.virginiacops.org/Articles...ing/Combat.htm

My guess is that the police don't train sufficiently for close-in
shooting. I always "warm-up" at the range by first shooting at a target
7 to 10 feet away, then about 20 feet away, and then I run the target
out to 75 feet.

You also need to learn a good pistol pointing technique.

You might want to read down in the article where it states there is a
clear disconnect between range marksmanship, and combat hitsmanship. *I
think Calif Bill is correct when he states "Hard to aim when ducking for
cover."

Don't argue with Harry - he's an expert on everything.

As for training, NYPD is second to none.

Er....Hello? *Marine Corps? *:)

The only people who do not have to be as accurate as the Marines is the Air
Force. *We drop a 500-2000# bomb and big hole.

You don't have to be really accurate with these either...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5H_Z...eature=related

?:^ 0

On Jul 23, 9:16*am, Gene Kearns
wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:07:21 -0700, jps penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

|On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:54:42 -0400, wrote:
|
|On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:25:11 -0400, H the K
|wrote:
|
|On 7/22/09 9:11 PM, Gene wrote:
| On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:08:54 -0700, *wrote:
|p
|
| Oh for ****'s sake Gene, you're assuming whomever is weidling the
| knife is an expert.
|
| Flawed logic.
|
| The guy in this case obviously meant to kill both women but left one
| alive. *Sound like a knife expert to you? *Neither of the women were
| armed from what I understand.
|
| Any dweeb with two hands and an arse can put a bullet through
| someone's skull at close range. *What's the chance of survival?
|
| And I suppose merely being in possession of a gun somehow imbues the
| wielder with magical powers of perfect aim......
|
|At 10 feet with a target the size of an adult human and some
|considerable experience handling and shooting firearms?
|
|You don't need perfect aim, just "decent" aim.
|
|I suppose you haven't seen those police dash camera pictures where
|trained police officers fire lots of ammo without hitting anyone.
|What you can do on the range may not translate to what you can do in
|bad light, when you are not really prepared and under more than a
|little stress.
|
|We're talking about knives vs. guns. *In the same circumstances, the
|knife is going to be just as difficult to handle as a deadly weapon as
|a gun.

I think you have finally argued full circle. In order for a knife to
be an effective weapon, the wielder must be expert and, by your own
admission, a gun is just as difficult to handle as a knife.

Therefore, for a gun to be an effective weapon, the wielder must be an
expert.

Now, maybe you are ready to understand the next logical step, "Weapons
don't kill people, people kill people." Once there, perhaps you'll be
ready to develop effective strategies to stop violence. Historically,
something no amount of "take the weapons away" legislation has
done....

--
Agent 5.00 Build 1171

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepagehttp://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Excellent thoughts, Gene.

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
On 7/23/09 8:00 PM, Calif Bill wrote:
"H the wrote in message
m...
On 7/23/09 4:00 PM, Calif Bill wrote:
"Yogi of wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:54:42 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:25:11 -0400, H the
wrote:

On 7/22/09 9:11 PM, Gene wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:08:54 -0700,
wrote:
p

Oh for ****'s sake Gene, you're assuming whomever is weidling the
knife is an expert.

Flawed logic.

The guy in this case obviously meant to kill both women but left
one
alive. Sound like a knife expert to you? Neither of the women
were
armed from what I understand.

Any dweeb with two hands and an arse can put a bullet through
someone's skull at close range. What's the chance of survival?

And I suppose merely being in possession of a gun somehow imbues
the
wielder with magical powers of perfect aim......

At 10 feet with a target the size of an adult human and some
considerable experience handling and shooting firearms?

You don't need perfect aim, just "decent" aim.

I suppose you haven't seen those police dash camera pictures where
trained police officers fire lots of ammo without hitting anyone.
What you can do on the range may not translate to what you can do in
bad light, when you are not really prepared and under more than a
little stress.

You can also have the problem with a 9mm or .38 that even a decently
placed shot won't stop a motivated perpetrator before he can get to
you. There are lots of places on the body, even in the head with no
organs that a hole in will cause instant death. It is possible to end
up dead next to your dying attacker.

Just another case of Harry's superior abilities.

The man is truly amazing.

And if he had been in a combat role in SEA instead of a non combatant
role,
he would have ended the war single handedly. There would not be a VC
alive
today.




If I had been in charge, I would have gotten our troops out of there in
1964.




1964, That fine Democrat President LBJ cranked it up. Big Time. When I
got
my draft notice signed by LBJ.



The worst mistake of his presidency. Too bad George W. Bush didn't bother
to read up on that war.

--
A wise Latina makes better decisions than a dumb elephant.

May not have been the worst misteak :} of his presidency. Raising SS tax
to pay for government programs, passing the cost of those programs on to
future generations. May cost more and kill more than Viet Nam did. He
sucked as a President!!!

"John Again" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:00:01 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"H the K" wrote in message
news:tv2dnVa6xr0uXPXXnZ2dnUVZ_ixi4p2d@earthlink. com...
On 7/23/09 4:00 PM, Calif Bill wrote:
"Yogi of wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:54:42 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:25:11 -0400, H the
wrote:

On 7/22/09 9:11 PM, Gene wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:08:54 -0700, wrote:
p

Oh for ****'s sake Gene, you're assuming whomever is weidling the
knife is an expert.

Flawed logic.

The guy in this case obviously meant to kill both women but left
one
alive. Sound like a knife expert to you? Neither of the women
were
armed from what I understand.

Any dweeb with two hands and an arse can put a bullet through
someone's skull at close range. What's the chance of survival?

And I suppose merely being in possession of a gun somehow imbues
the
wielder with magical powers of perfect aim......

At 10 feet with a target the size of an adult human and some
considerable experience handling and shooting firearms?

You don't need perfect aim, just "decent" aim.

I suppose you haven't seen those police dash camera pictures where
trained police officers fire lots of ammo without hitting anyone.
What you can do on the range may not translate to what you can do in
bad light, when you are not really prepared and under more than a
little stress.

You can also have the problem with a 9mm or .38 that even a decently
placed shot won't stop a motivated perpetrator before he can get to
you. There are lots of places on the body, even in the head with no
organs that a hole in will cause instant death. It is possible to end
up dead next to your dying attacker.

Just another case of Harry's superior abilities.

The man is truly amazing.

And if he had been in a combat role in SEA instead of a non combatant
role,
he would have ended the war single handedly. There would not be a VC
alive
today.




If I had been in charge, I would have gotten our troops out of there in
1964.




1964, That fine Democrat President LBJ cranked it up. Big Time. When I
got
my draft notice signed by LBJ.


Mine was June, 1965.
--

John H

Fall 64. Went to the wrong address, so I joined the air force.

"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Jul 23, 2:56 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"Yogi of Woodstock" wrote in
messagenews:nglg65d6sul1vj583mmi2k0b7d9rkopt7d@4ax .com...



On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 06:53:30 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 07:37:45 -0400, H the K wrote:

http://www.virginiacops.org/Articles...ing/Combat.htm

My guess is that the police don't train sufficiently for close-in
shooting. I always "warm-up" at the range by first shooting at a
target
7 to 10 feet away, then about 20 feet away, and then I run the target
out to 75 feet.

You also need to learn a good pistol pointing technique.

You might want to read down in the article where it states there is a
clear disconnect between range marksmanship, and combat hitsmanship. I
think Calif Bill is correct when he states "Hard to aim when ducking for
cover."

Don't argue with Harry - he's an expert on everything.

As for training, NYPD is second to none.

Er....Hello? Marine Corps? :)

The only people who do not have to be as accurate as the Marines is the
Air
Force. We drop a 500-2000# bomb and big hole.

You don't have to be really accurate with these either...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5H_Z...eature=related

?:^ 0

And they just get more deadly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73SciCMf9Rw

John Again wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:00:01 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
On 7/23/09 4:00 PM, Calif Bill wrote:
"Yogi of wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:54:42 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:25:11 -0400, H the
wrote:

On 7/22/09 9:11 PM, Gene wrote:
On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:08:54 -0700, wrote:
p
Oh for ****'s sake Gene, you're assuming whomever is weidling the
knife is an expert.

Flawed logic.

The guy in this case obviously meant to kill both women but left one
alive. Sound like a knife expert to you? Neither of the women were
armed from what I understand.

Any dweeb with two hands and an arse can put a bullet through
someone's skull at close range. What's the chance of survival?
And I suppose merely being in possession of a gun somehow imbues the
wielder with magical powers of perfect aim......
At 10 feet with a target the size of an adult human and some
considerable experience handling and shooting firearms?

You don't need perfect aim, just "decent" aim.
I suppose you haven't seen those police dash camera pictures where
trained police officers fire lots of ammo without hitting anyone.
What you can do on the range may not translate to what you can do in
bad light, when you are not really prepared and under more than a
little stress.

You can also have the problem with a 9mm or .38 that even a decently
placed shot won't stop a motivated perpetrator before he can get to
you. There are lots of places on the body, even in the head with no
organs that a hole in will cause instant death. It is possible to end
up dead next to your dying attacker.
Just another case of Harry's superior abilities.

The man is truly amazing.
And if he had been in a combat role in SEA instead of a non combatant
role,
he would have ended the war single handedly. There would not be a VC
alive
today.



If I had been in charge, I would have gotten our troops out of there in
1964.



1964, That fine Democrat President LBJ cranked it up. Big Time. When I got
my draft notice signed by LBJ.


Mine was June, 1965.
--

John H

Harry's draft notice was signed by JFK.
That was a duty and an honor that no red blooded American could refuse.