wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to explain the process.
My comments are as follows;

2) Make an offer, which is PENDING SURVEY and SEA TRIAL.

This needs to be carefully worded. Brokers usually hand you
a standardized form, which is usually slanted in their (and
the sellers) favor. The phrase "subject to survey & sea
trial" is commonly used and it does NOT mean that the boat's
survey and sea trial must be satisfactory to YOU the buyer.

Don't be afraid to take the standardized contract and use it
as the basis to write up a contract that satisfies you.


That means that I will have to make a deposit of about 10%?

Depends. 10% used to be a standard but nowadays everything
is on a credit card. It needs to be a large enough amount
for the broker to take you seriously. You also need to find
out what he is going to do with the check (deposit it in a
business account, a NOW account, lock it in a bottom drawer,
or whatever).


The probability of buying a sailboat on the first look around is possible
but remote.

Agreed. If you know a particular type of boat you want, then
you can focus on what it's known issues are, look for
problems common to that type, and have a comparison to
sisterships on the market at the same time. If you're just
hunting in general, it's harder.


3) A licensed captain is often used for the sea trial at major brokers.
Once I buy the boat I will be the one handling the sailboat, setting sails,
trimming,docking, maintaining it and so on.
I am not a maverick but what does a licensed captain have that I do not
already have?

Insurance, and the permission of the seller (he does own the
boat, after all). It's not all bad, a licensed captain
usually has enough experience that he will be worth
listening as he puts the boat thru it's paces.

OTOH it is well within your rights to say "If I don't get to
try it, I'm not going to buy it." The seller shouldn't
refuse to let you work the boat thru normal evolutins that
have no potential harm impending (making sure the reefing
gear works, for example). But you can see why he might be
nervous to let you dock the boat.


I have never turned down good advises and suggestions.
This morning I have a mixed feeling about surveyors. I just learned that
one of my friend lost his rudder on his way to Bermuda and had to be rescued
by a container ship. I hope to get more details on that one.


I hope he gets his boat back.

DSK

Thanks for your feedback. I will use it in the very near future.

"I hope he gets his boat back.'

At first we tough he got rescued by a container ship. At supper it was
confirmed that the US Coast Guard did the rescue close to Bermuda.

The feedback we got at our club is that the rudder became non operational at
the high of the big storm.

He and his crew are presently resting in Bermuda.

We do not know where his boat is at this time. Surprisingly there are always
people listening on the radio during a rescue and May Day. Either the boat
is still floating freely or some towing companies have their eyes on it.
Time will tell.

A Canadian Navy frigate is presently on its way to rescue another Canadian
Sailboat at about 650 miles south of Yarmouth Nova Scotia. It is reported
that the winds are very strong and the sea rough enough for the Frigate to
use storm tactics and to proceed with caution. One of the tactics used is to
point into the wind with the engine geared at the proper speed until the
worst is over.

I'll be watching the news tonight!

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to explain the process.
My comments are as follows;

2) Make an offer, which is PENDING SURVEY and SEA TRIAL.

This needs to be carefully worded. Brokers usually hand you a standardized
form, which is usually slanted in their (and the sellers) favor. The
phrase "subject to survey & sea trial" is commonly used and it does NOT
mean that the boat's survey and sea trial must be satisfactory to YOU the
buyer.

Don't be afraid to take the standardized contract and use it as the basis
to write up a contract that satisfies you.


That means that I will have to make a deposit of about 10%?

Depends. 10% used to be a standard but nowadays everything is on a credit
card. It needs to be a large enough amount for the broker to take you
seriously. You also need to find out what he is going to do with the check
(deposit it in a business account, a NOW account, lock it in a bottom
drawer, or whatever).


The probability of buying a sailboat on the first look around is possible
but remote.

Agreed. If you know a particular type of boat you want, then you can focus
on what it's known issues are, look for problems common to that type, and
have a comparison to sisterships on the market at the same time. If you're
just hunting in general, it's harder.


3) A licensed captain is often used for the sea trial at major brokers.
Once I buy the boat I will be the one handling the sailboat, setting
sails, trimming,docking, maintaining it and so on.
I am not a maverick but what does a licensed captain have that I do not
already have?

Insurance, and the permission of the seller (he does own the boat, after
all). It's not all bad, a licensed captain usually has enough experience
that he will be worth listening as he puts the boat thru it's paces.

OTOH it is well within your rights to say "If I don't get to try it, I'm
not going to buy it." The seller shouldn't refuse to let you work the boat
thru normal evolutins that have no potential harm impending (making sure
the reefing gear works, for example). But you can see why he might be
nervous to let you dock the boat.


I have never turned down good advises and suggestions.
This morning I have a mixed feeling about surveyors. I just learned that
one of my friend lost his rudder on his way to Bermuda and had to be
rescued by a container ship. I hope to get more details on that one.


I hope he gets his boat back.

DSK

On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 23:37:38 GMT, wrote:

A Canadian Navy frigate is presently on its way to rescue another Canadian
Sailboat at about 650 miles south of Yarmouth Nova Scotia. It is reported
that the winds are very strong and the sea rough enough for the Frigate to
use storm tactics and to proceed with caution.

This is a really lousy time of year to be on the North Atlantic. I
can't understand why people do it. Taking the Chesapeake and ICW to
Beaufort, NC is a much safer route south, but you still need a decent
weather window to leave from there.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 23:37:38 GMT, wrote:


A Canadian Navy frigate is presently on its way to rescue another Canadian
Sailboat at about 650 miles south of Yarmouth Nova Scotia. It is reported
that the winds are very strong and the sea rough enough for the Frigate to
use storm tactics and to proceed with caution.


This is a really lousy time of year to be on the North Atlantic. I
can't understand why people do it. Taking the Chesapeake and ICW to
Beaufort, NC is a much safer route south, but you still need a decent
weather window to leave from there.


Nova Scotia is about equal distance from Bermuda as is the coastline of
the US. Simpliest and fastest way is just to sail due south....assuming
you don't run into heavy weather.

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 04:15:06 GMT, Don White
wrote:

Nova Scotia is about equal distance from Bermuda as is the coastline of
the US. Simpliest and fastest way is just to sail due south....assuming
you don't run into heavy weather.

Bad assumption this time of year. Those cold fronts and low pressure
systems keep rolling out of the north east just like clockwork. No
thanks, there's no where to hide once you're out there.

wrote:
....
A Canadian Navy frigate is presently on its way to rescue another Canadian
Sailboat at about 650 miles south of Yarmouth Nova Scotia. It is reported
that the winds are very strong and the sea rough enough for the Frigate to
use storm tactics and to proceed with caution. One of the tactics used is to
point into the wind with the engine geared at the proper speed until the
worst is over.

I just received this email from close friends who had spent the summer
in Shelburne, and sewed a new dodger for the boat:

News clipping from Canadian Globe and Mail which details the trial of
our friends from Shelburne. Rochelle 4 is the boat we did all the
sewing for.

According to our sources they were rolled and dismasted in winds 40-50
SE and seas to 24 ft. Sheila broke her arm in the rollover. The boat
was a 47 ft Erickson, flush deck, 80's era substantial IOR offshore
racer. All are experienced sailors. They had put a lot of work into
the boat it is sad to see them have to leave it but in the
circumstances I think it the correct decision.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

We learned of this as the rescue was happening. Very strange to be
enjoying a nice sail down the Chesapeake while our friends were in a
survival situation.

More later.

Just a little before was another Canadian sailboat Magique had to be
abandoned close to Bermuda. It lost its rudder during the height of the
storm and the crew was rescued by the US Coast Guard.

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
...
A Canadian Navy frigate is presently on its way to rescue another
Canadian Sailboat at about 650 miles south of Yarmouth Nova Scotia. It is
reported that the winds are very strong and the sea rough enough for the
Frigate to use storm tactics and to proceed with caution. One of the
tactics used is to point into the wind with the engine geared at the
proper speed until the worst is over.

I just received this email from close friends who had spent the summer in
Shelburne, and sewed a new dodger for the boat:

News clipping from Canadian Globe and Mail which details the trial of our
friends from Shelburne. Rochelle 4 is the boat we did all the sewing for.

According to our sources they were rolled and dismasted in winds 40-50
SE and seas to 24 ft. Sheila broke her arm in the rollover. The boat
was a 47 ft Erickson, flush deck, 80's era substantial IOR offshore racer.
All are experienced sailors. They had put a lot of work into the boat it
is sad to see them have to leave it but in the circumstances I think it
the correct decision.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

We learned of this as the rescue was happening. Very strange to be
enjoying a nice sail down the Chesapeake while our friends were in a
survival situation.

More later.

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:25:43 -0500, Jeff wrote:

We learned of this as the rescue was happening. Very strange to be
enjoying a nice sail down the Chesapeake while our friends were in a
survival situation.

Good decisions lead to good outcomes, and vice versa.

Sorry to hear about your friend's problem but what the heck were they
thinking of this time of year?

Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:25:43 -0500, Jeff wrote:

We learned of this as the rescue was happening. Very strange to be
enjoying a nice sail down the Chesapeake while our friends were in a
survival situation.

Good decisions lead to good outcomes, and vice versa.

Sorry to hear about your friend's problem but what the heck were they
thinking of this time of year?

Actually, my friends (the authors of the email) are the ones who took
the coastal route - I visited with them in Portsmouth and again in
Onset, now they're on the Chesapeake, headed towards South Carolina.
This is more my style of cruising nowadays.

Their friends, of whom they've often spoken but I've never met, are
the ones that got rescued. I'm sure I'll get a fuller story in the
coming weeks. In particular, I'm wondering if they had planned to go
earlier and got delayed, or were they waiting out the hurricane season.

Although not much could tempt me to do that trip this time of year,
there is a perception that mid-November to mid-December is a window
between the hurricanes and the winter storms, so there's always a few
boats that try. But it seems like a crap shoot to me, and every year
there's a story like this one.

I wonder if they scuttled the sailboat; it sounded like it was
floating well, and perhaps it will turn up somewhere.

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:18:18 -0500, Jeff wrote:

there is a perception that mid-November to mid-December is a window
between the hurricanes and the winter storms, so there's always a few
boats that try. But it seems like a crap shoot to me, and every year
there's a story like this one.

The risk of hurricanes and tropical storms is largely over by the end
of October but there are ferocious low pressure systems that sweep
through from Canada and the mid-west in November. It's much less
risky to take a coastal route as far south as possible before heading
east to Bermuda.

Leaving from Newport, RI instead of Nova Scotia saves 300 to 400
miles of open ocean exposure. Leaving from North Carolina saves no
distance but gets you quickly into somewhat more stable weather once
you clear Hatteras and the Gulf Stream.