Skipper wrote:

But when problems do arise I want to have a choice.
Depending on the situation I want to make a choice between a)
waving/using a gun and b) let it lie in it's place...,

Len,
Never show a weapon. Never brandish or wave a weapon. It sounds
like you really need some defensive training.

So when say two robbers, with a grown knife between their teeth, row
to your boat, you'd just shoot them by surprise instead of giving them
other thoughts by letting them take a look at your 12 ga.?
The term "warning shot" isn't in your vocabulary?
Being less of a wise guy I won't go in in what kind of training you
might need, but it's all in what you call "defensive" or "offensive".

For those of you who would pass out cookies and pictures of Hilary
Clinton..... from the SE ASIA Mobile Maritime Net::

Pirate Attack Reported to Yemen Officials

"On 8 March 2005, two sailing yachts, Mahdi & Gandalf, were moving SW
30 miles off the coast of Yemen proceeding to the port of Aden from
Salalah, Oman.

At about 0900 two outboard powered boats, about 25 feet long with 3 men
in each one, passed off our stern moving south at about 25 knots. An
hour or two later they returned, one coming quite close and looking us
over carefully. The second boat passed our bows but quite a ways away.
These boats were obviously not engaged in a normal activity such as
fishing, etc. At that time we were south of Al Mukalla, Yemen. The area
around Al Mukalla is well documented as being a piracy problem area and
we started watching carefully for anything out of the ordinary.

At about 1600 we observed two different boats approaching us head on
from the SW. These boats were 25-30 feet long, had higher freeboard and
diesel powered. They were coming very fast directly at us. There were 4
men in each boat. The boats separated at about 200 yards, one boat
ahead of the other, coming down Mahdi¹s port side and firing into the
cockpit. The other boat was firing an automatic weapon at both Gandalf
and Mahdi from ahead, more at Gandalf. These guys were shooting
directly at the cockpits, and obviously intended to kill us.

The first boat swung around behind Mahdi¹s stern to come up and board
us. At that point I, Rod Nowlin aboard Mahdi and armed with a 12 gage
shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot, started shooting into their boat. I
forced them to keep their heads down so that they could not shoot at
us. I am not sure I hit anyone at that point although I could see the
driver of the boat crouched down behind a steering console. After
firing 3 shots at them their engine started to smoke and I swung around
to shoot at the boat ahead. At that point, I saw Jay Barry on Gandalf
ram that boat amidships almost cutting it in two and turning it almost
completely over. I turned back around to shoot again at the boat behind
Mahdi and that is when they turned away from Mahdi and were heading
toward the stern of Gandalf. Gandalf was beside us, about 100 feet
away. The bow of the pirate¹s boat came right up against Gandalf¹s
stern and two men stood up on the bow to board Gandalf. That was a
serious and probably fateful error on their part. I shot both of them.
That boat then veered away and I shot the driver, although I am not
sure of the outcome because they were farther away and I did not knock
him down like the other two.

Mahdi and Gandalf kept going at full speed to put as much distance
between the pirates and us as possible. As soon as we were out of rifle
range we looked back and both boats were drifting and appeared to be
disabled.

If Jay on Gandalf had not had the presence of mind to veer over into
one boat and ram it, the outcome of this attack would have been totally
different. All they needed to do was stand off a ways and shoot us to
pieces with automatic weapons. We were extremely lucky.

We broadcast Mayday calls on all VHF and HF radio frequencies,
including two HF emergency frequencies supplied by the US Coast Guard a
few days before. The Coalition Forces in the area were supposed to be
monitoring these frequencies. There was no response except from a
commercial ship in the area on VHF 16 who approached and observed the
disabled pirates for a bit, then sailed along side of us for 2-4 hours
until dark to make sure we would be all right.

The pirates were well organized and well armed. There were at least 4
boats involved. They had set up a picket line out from the Yemen coast
probably at least for 50-75 miles, so if you transited the area during
the day they wouldn¹t miss you. The two boats that attacked us appeared
to have come from the south.

There has been speculation in the past that this ongoing piracy
problem off the Yemen coast was being carried out by Somali pirates.
Given the number, type of boats involved, and the direction the spotter
boats came from, this does not appear to be correct in this case. This
problem is getting worse and the pirate attacks are getting deadly. One
could only expect that the Yemen Government will take more direct
action. At the very least, allow yachts to group in Salalah, Oman and
at some point on the NW Yemen coast to request an escort along the
Yemen coast."

Rodney J. Nowlin, USN Retired
[b]S/V Mahdi

Rich Hampel wrote in
:

For those of you who would pass out cookies and pictures of Hilary
Clinton.....

Hermann says they **** their pants while frantically trying to get to the
Russian hand grenade rolling around under the seats....(c;

They don't expect the yachtie Clinton Lovers to put up any
fight....especially yachties unarmed by international laws and stupid
customs inspections.

In article 1111736083.af4857891b0ce7311315567dd6261fe2@teran ews,
says...
So when say two robbers, with a grown knife between their teeth, row
to your boat, you'd just shoot them by surprise instead of giving them
other thoughts by letting them take a look at your 12 ga.?
The term "warning shot" isn't in your vocabulary?



You've either have to be kidding or have watched way too much Mr.
Roger's neighborhood.

Along with the knife in the teeth maybe they will have a hook for a left
hand.

Does the term "AK47" ring any bells?

--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods

www.heirloom-woods.net

I can't imagine one would ever have an advantage on a sailboat vs a
local adversary, other than being prepared for any contingency. I do
know this quote "......And if in all respects unequal, be capable of
eluding him" -Sun Tzu. I'm not sure how one would be able to put it
into practice other than not going near any area which is rumored to
have pirates.

I guess that would be my question to the group, if you have no choice
but to travel through hostile waters, or your are travelling through
what could be hostile waters, how would you choose to "be capable of
eluding him"?

Doug dot vibbert at constellation dot com

On 25 Mar 2005 07:32:31 -0800, "boatgeek" wrote:

I guess that would be my question to the group, if you have no choice
but to travel through hostile waters, or your are travelling through
what could be hostile waters, how would you choose to "be capable of
eluding him"?

There's a guy in an otherwise unremarkable 30'(give-or-take) fiberglass
sailboat, who has blown by me on at least 3 occasions as I was sailing into
Boston Harbor in the evening. I don't know what kind of inboard power he has,
but his boat is way overpowered compared to any other sailboat I've seen. His
bow comes out of the water and he motors along at a comically high angle and at
a speed that seems unnatural for a sailboat. Probably inefficient as all hell,
and still can't outrun a serious motor boat, but could be capable of eluding
slower motor boats, at least for a while. So I offer a monster auxiliary motor
(and suitable prop) as a possible tool for eluding slower pirates. If nothing
else, the sight of a sailboat accelerating and planing should give them pause.
One disadvantage is that it is probably makes it harder to aim your own weapons.

--
Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems
, , www.synchro.com
(my email address is politician-proof, just remove the PORK)

Mike G wrote:

In article 1111736083.af4857891b0ce7311315567dd6261fe2@teran ews,
says...
So when say two robbers, with a grown knife between their teeth, row
to your boat, you'd just shoot them by surprise instead of giving them
other thoughts by letting them take a look at your 12 ga.?
The term "warning shot" isn't in your vocabulary?



You've either have to be kidding or have watched way too much Mr.
Roger's neighborhood.

Along with the knife in the teeth maybe they will have a hook for a left
hand.

Does the term "AK47" ring any bells?

Mike,

Take a look at the message I responded to. I just tried to picture a
hypothetical situation for sake of argument. I see no need to
ridiculize it, perhaps you could try to add something of value to the
discussion...

But I must say this thread is getting more and more informative... LOL

To me it looks like _some_ of the posters in favor of having a weapon
on board are incapable of proper reading, lack _any_ sensible empathy
or even the slightest bit of attention for the content of the
arguments they read, are agressively tense and trigger happy...
Hmm, what is that smell... fear ? xenophoby ? Anyway, it explains to
me to some extent the at times very uptight discussions typical for
this subject.

Len wrote in
news:1111782081.4515138e0f4014f7db098cab704cd6d7@t eranews:

Hmm, what is that smell... fear ?

Those will be the alive ones, after the firefight is over.....

In article 1111782081.4515138e0f4014f7db098cab704cd6d7@teran ews,
says...
perhaps you could try to add something of value to the
discussion..


Perhaps you missed or couldn't read my original post, which, I belive,
contained a bit more useful information for the OP then row boats and
knives in the teeth.

Let me summarize it for you in simpler terms.

If someone is so uninformed about fire arms, their various potentials,
and the kinds of people who use them for criminal purposes in truly
lawless area's of the world, the really bad bad guys, one would probably
be better off without one.

Really bad bad guys are very skeptical of good guys who stand around
waving a gun and firing warning shots rather then putting it to the use
it was intended for in those kind of situations. It's a morals thing.
They don't have any and count on the fact you do.

Too even suggest that giving away an advantage by waving a gun or firing
"warning shots" at really bad bad guys is a disserves to the OP and
deserves the reply I sent.

Making the decision to buy a firearm is a very serious one and the
person making it has to understand that by having it they must be up to
the task of taking a life or three. They also have to understand that
there are people out there that don't give a damn one way or another
whether they live or die and just waving it around and firing warning
shots will just lead to the bad guys backing off and blowing said fat
dumb and happy gun owner's ass off with an AK 47 or Browning MG. Sure,
they'd rather not, but only because it might mess up a nice boat they
can convert into money and not for any concern for the target of their
ire.

Just in case there is any doubt on this matter next time one of the
cable TV channels runs the tape of the L.A. bank hold up of several
years ago, Watch it.

--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods

www.heirloom-woods.net

Mike G wrote:

If someone is so uninformed about fire arms, their various potentials,
and the kinds of people who use them for criminal purposes in truly
lawless area's of the world, the really bad bad guys, one would probably
be better off without one.

Your premature and flawed conclusions are based on my picture of a
hypothetical situation you just don't want to address, cause it brings
up the need to think, to weigh your decisions and choose your conduct
with thought.

All you do in this discussion is avoid the nuances and refer to the
very easy situation in which really bad bad pirates should be shot
legitimetly by surprise.

Now let me put this in simple terms for you... Are you really too
simple to understand there are situations possible a) forcing you to
get your gun but b) do not legitimize blasting everyone around to
hell?

Well, if so good luck to us all then. Imo it's guys like you that are
better off without a gun.