Terry Spragg wrote:

Skipper wrote:

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 12:19:02 +0100, Len
wrote:


The missus and I are preparing our boat and ourselves for a RTW-trip
in a few years. My attention was drawn to the story of the two yachts
that succesfully defended themselves from pirates in the Yemen area.

In the ever ongoing weapons discussion I take a moderate position.
I know I'll be on my own, in known risky places preferably accompanied
by a few other yachts in a convoy. SSB is your friend here...

But when problems do arise I want to have a choice.
Depending on the situation I want to make a choice between a)
waving/using a gun and b) let it lie in it's place...,


*snip!

Regards,
Len.



Len,
Never show a weapon. Never brandish or wave a weapon. It sounds
like you really need some defensive training.


Right on! Maintain surprise options. I still prefer the beer can full of
gas and zippo flame thrower for overall effect. Oh, and a kevlar life
jacket.

Terry K


Terry,

I like your "kevlar life jacket" idea, but its only good against pistol bullets
unless you get the really heavy ceramic internal plates. Then it might not
work as a life jacket ;-)

I like the idea of a steel boat with a steel door that latches on the inside. Most
rifles won't penetrate 3/8" steel, and you can make your windows and skylights mostly
bulletproof as well. Now all you need is an electrical system that can switch the
genset output to the right pre-selected portions of the deck/\railing, or deck/\door
handle and the bad guys are in for a real shock!

Of course, you have to keep that in mind when you've been out for a night drinking with
your buddies, and the missus is in one of _those_ moods ;-)

Later,

Don W.

Terry Spragg wrote in
:

Right on! Maintain surprise options. I still prefer the beer can
full of gas and zippo flame thrower for overall effect. Oh, and a
kevlar life jacket.

Terry K



I met a German in a beautiful yawl on the docks. His favorite is Russian
hand grenades available cheap. Nice looking bombs. He tossed one into a
speedboat just popping out of the dark cabin as they came alongside off
Indonesia.....Boom! Problem solved.....

Don W wrote in
:

we should have paid more
attention to the "energy crises" back in 1973 when it first reared
its ugly head] \OT


There was no crises in '73. It was contrived. Every abandoned service
station in SC was overflowing with excess gas/diesel. They just refused to
SELL it to us except to parcel it out a little at a time. A total lie, all
of it.

My uncle in PA flys light planes. He took pictures of loaded oil tankers
offshore of NJ, loaded to the gunwales, long lines of them. All the tanks
ashore were full and it just piled up at sea.

Once Americans got a taste of the power of big oil, big oil could jack up
the prices, a little at a time, and the public just accepted it. We have
no choice, just like Europe.

What ****es me off is my politicians allow Alaskan oil to go to JAPAN!!

Skipper wrote:

But when problems do arise I want to have a choice.
Depending on the situation I want to make a choice between a)
waving/using a gun and b) let it lie in it's place...,

Len,
Never show a weapon. Never brandish or wave a weapon. It sounds
like you really need some defensive training.

So when say two robbers, with a grown knife between their teeth, row
to your boat, you'd just shoot them by surprise instead of giving them
other thoughts by letting them take a look at your 12 ga.?
The term "warning shot" isn't in your vocabulary?
Being less of a wise guy I won't go in in what kind of training you
might need, but it's all in what you call "defensive" or "offensive".

For those of you who would pass out cookies and pictures of Hilary
Clinton..... from the SE ASIA Mobile Maritime Net::

Pirate Attack Reported to Yemen Officials

"On 8 March 2005, two sailing yachts, Mahdi & Gandalf, were moving SW
30 miles off the coast of Yemen proceeding to the port of Aden from
Salalah, Oman.

At about 0900 two outboard powered boats, about 25 feet long with 3 men
in each one, passed off our stern moving south at about 25 knots. An
hour or two later they returned, one coming quite close and looking us
over carefully. The second boat passed our bows but quite a ways away.
These boats were obviously not engaged in a normal activity such as
fishing, etc. At that time we were south of Al Mukalla, Yemen. The area
around Al Mukalla is well documented as being a piracy problem area and
we started watching carefully for anything out of the ordinary.

At about 1600 we observed two different boats approaching us head on
from the SW. These boats were 25-30 feet long, had higher freeboard and
diesel powered. They were coming very fast directly at us. There were 4
men in each boat. The boats separated at about 200 yards, one boat
ahead of the other, coming down Mahdi¹s port side and firing into the
cockpit. The other boat was firing an automatic weapon at both Gandalf
and Mahdi from ahead, more at Gandalf. These guys were shooting
directly at the cockpits, and obviously intended to kill us.

The first boat swung around behind Mahdi¹s stern to come up and board
us. At that point I, Rod Nowlin aboard Mahdi and armed with a 12 gage
shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot, started shooting into their boat. I
forced them to keep their heads down so that they could not shoot at
us. I am not sure I hit anyone at that point although I could see the
driver of the boat crouched down behind a steering console. After
firing 3 shots at them their engine started to smoke and I swung around
to shoot at the boat ahead. At that point, I saw Jay Barry on Gandalf
ram that boat amidships almost cutting it in two and turning it almost
completely over. I turned back around to shoot again at the boat behind
Mahdi and that is when they turned away from Mahdi and were heading
toward the stern of Gandalf. Gandalf was beside us, about 100 feet
away. The bow of the pirate¹s boat came right up against Gandalf¹s
stern and two men stood up on the bow to board Gandalf. That was a
serious and probably fateful error on their part. I shot both of them.
That boat then veered away and I shot the driver, although I am not
sure of the outcome because they were farther away and I did not knock
him down like the other two.

Mahdi and Gandalf kept going at full speed to put as much distance
between the pirates and us as possible. As soon as we were out of rifle
range we looked back and both boats were drifting and appeared to be
disabled.

If Jay on Gandalf had not had the presence of mind to veer over into
one boat and ram it, the outcome of this attack would have been totally
different. All they needed to do was stand off a ways and shoot us to
pieces with automatic weapons. We were extremely lucky.

We broadcast Mayday calls on all VHF and HF radio frequencies,
including two HF emergency frequencies supplied by the US Coast Guard a
few days before. The Coalition Forces in the area were supposed to be
monitoring these frequencies. There was no response except from a
commercial ship in the area on VHF 16 who approached and observed the
disabled pirates for a bit, then sailed along side of us for 2-4 hours
until dark to make sure we would be all right.

The pirates were well organized and well armed. There were at least 4
boats involved. They had set up a picket line out from the Yemen coast
probably at least for 50-75 miles, so if you transited the area during
the day they wouldn¹t miss you. The two boats that attacked us appeared
to have come from the south.

There has been speculation in the past that this ongoing piracy
problem off the Yemen coast was being carried out by Somali pirates.
Given the number, type of boats involved, and the direction the spotter
boats came from, this does not appear to be correct in this case. This
problem is getting worse and the pirate attacks are getting deadly. One
could only expect that the Yemen Government will take more direct
action. At the very least, allow yachts to group in Salalah, Oman and
at some point on the NW Yemen coast to request an escort along the
Yemen coast."

Rodney J. Nowlin, USN Retired
[b]S/V Mahdi

Larry W4CSC wrote:
There was no crises in '73. It was contrived.

To some extent I agree. But the political situation driving the
economics was quite real. Basically the Arab members of OPEC decided to
punish us for supporting Israel... an attitude that has not changed...


Once Americans got a taste of the power of big oil, big oil could jack up
the prices, a little at a time, and the public just accepted it. We have
no choice, just like Europe.


Problem with this... for most of the time frame between 1975 and today,
gas prices have lagged behind in inflation... until recently, far
behind. Look at average wages in 1975... a loaf of bread cost 35c, a new
release album $3.

What ****es me off is my politicians allow Alaskan oil to go to JAPAN!!


Why not? They hold a heck of a lot of our gov't debt, and they pay
higher prices for it than you & I.

DSK

In article 1111736083.af4857891b0ce7311315567dd6261fe2@teran ews,
says...
So when say two robbers, with a grown knife between their teeth, row
to your boat, you'd just shoot them by surprise instead of giving them
other thoughts by letting them take a look at your 12 ga.?
The term "warning shot" isn't in your vocabulary?



You've either have to be kidding or have watched way too much Mr.
Roger's neighborhood.

Along with the knife in the teeth maybe they will have a hook for a left
hand.

Does the term "AK47" ring any bells?

--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods

www.heirloom-woods.net

I can't imagine one would ever have an advantage on a sailboat vs a
local adversary, other than being prepared for any contingency. I do
know this quote "......And if in all respects unequal, be capable of
eluding him" -Sun Tzu. I'm not sure how one would be able to put it
into practice other than not going near any area which is rumored to
have pirates.

I guess that would be my question to the group, if you have no choice
but to travel through hostile waters, or your are travelling through
what could be hostile waters, how would you choose to "be capable of
eluding him"?

Doug dot vibbert at constellation dot com

On 25 Mar 2005 07:32:31 -0800, "boatgeek" wrote:

I guess that would be my question to the group, if you have no choice
but to travel through hostile waters, or your are travelling through
what could be hostile waters, how would you choose to "be capable of
eluding him"?

There's a guy in an otherwise unremarkable 30'(give-or-take) fiberglass
sailboat, who has blown by me on at least 3 occasions as I was sailing into
Boston Harbor in the evening. I don't know what kind of inboard power he has,
but his boat is way overpowered compared to any other sailboat I've seen. His
bow comes out of the water and he motors along at a comically high angle and at
a speed that seems unnatural for a sailboat. Probably inefficient as all hell,
and still can't outrun a serious motor boat, but could be capable of eluding
slower motor boats, at least for a while. So I offer a monster auxiliary motor
(and suitable prop) as a possible tool for eluding slower pirates. If nothing
else, the sight of a sailboat accelerating and planing should give them pause.
One disadvantage is that it is probably makes it harder to aim your own weapons.

--
Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems
, , www.synchro.com
(my email address is politician-proof, just remove the PORK)

Larry W4CSC wrote:

Terry Spragg wrote in
:


Right on! Maintain surprise options. I still prefer the beer can
full of gas and zippo flame thrower for overall effect. Oh, and a
kevlar life jacket.

Terry K




I met a German in a beautiful yawl on the docks. His favorite is Russian
hand grenades available cheap. Nice looking bombs. He tossed one into a
speedboat just popping out of the dark cabin as they came alongside off
Indonesia.....Boom! Problem solved.....


A grenade is a bomb. A bomb is a weapon of mass destruction.
Possessing bombs is a crime in most parts.

Possessing beer cans and gasoline and a yard sprayer and zippo
lighter is not.

Defense is 99% brains and ingenuity, and 1% mechanical assistance,
except with ballistic missiles. There is no reliable defense against
ballistic missiles, the only chance for "victory" is a deeper
capacity to absorb attrition, at least until the air is poisonous,
unless you consider prevention of the attack in the first place.

The best defense is to give no offense. What difference could I
possibly have with a Chinese peasant? Why must our sons fight to the
death? Let our leaders enter the ring first, naked and unarmed, if
they feel enough need to fight.

Get your head straight, man.

Terry K