I can't help but this odd melding between hate christianity and
corporate greed is some kind of natural order of things. When species
overpopulate they self destruct.

A world-wide killdown of perhaps 50% of all humans would certainly be a
positive step from an evolutionary standpoint.

I'm just glad that I don't have kids.

Let me pee on your parade.

Guys, I've grown up in the Bible Belt and have probably heard just
about every protestant religion at some point or another, and I have
never heard anyone in any of these religions spew such unadulterated
crap. In fact, quite the opposite, many protestant religions are quite
active in the environmental movement. I'm not talking about some wacko
the has a congregation of 6, but any viable and active large
congregation. Is this part of the creed of the Southern Baptist, the
largest single protestant group in the the US? I can tell you that it
isn't.

I've come to the conclusion that the current fad of the left of blaming
all the ills of the country on the Christian Right as an act of mental
masturbation of a group that lost contact with the mainstream in 1968
and never has caught up. Even in this election, the percentage of
"Christian" voters was nearly the same as in past elections. But it's
easier to blame the "Christians" than to admit that the party supported
unpopular social views while failing to articulate a clearly defined
alternative to the present administration.

I personally feel that mindless superstition and senseless rituals are
all that seperate us from the animals, but blaming the "Christians" for
the failure of the Democratic party and the percieved lack of
environmental concern of the present administration is laughable.

"Larry C" wrote in message
oups.com...
Let me pee on your parade.

Guys, I've grown up in the Bible Belt and have probably heard just
about every protestant religion at some point or another, and I have
never heard anyone in any of these religions spew such unadulterated
crap. In fact, quite the opposite, many protestant religions are quite
active in the environmental movement. I'm not talking about some wacko
the has a congregation of 6, but any viable and active large
congregation. Is this part of the creed of the Southern Baptist, the
largest single protestant group in the the US? I can tell you that it
isn't.

I've come to the conclusion that the current fad of the left of blaming
all the ills of the country on the Christian Right as an act of mental
masturbation of a group that lost contact with the mainstream in 1968
and never has caught up. Even in this election, the percentage of
"Christian" voters was nearly the same as in past elections. But it's
easier to blame the "Christians" than to admit that the party supported
unpopular social views while failing to articulate a clearly defined
alternative to the present administration.

I personally feel that mindless superstition and senseless rituals are
all that seperate us from the animals, but blaming the "Christians" for
the failure of the Democratic party and the percieved lack of
environmental concern of the present administration is laughable.


Larry, its your assertation that YOU know mindset of the 'mainstream' that
is precisely the core of what is so distasteful ABOUT the Christian right.
The 'moral majority' was neither moral nor in majority back in the 1970s,
nor is it today. And the entire 'we have Bush because of a failure of the
democratic party' line is precisely what your political leaders are telling
you to believe while they manipulate the media and the laws to their own
benefit, not yours. You'd be much more accurate to say "we have Bush because
a lot of gullible people voted without looking too deeply into the
situation, exactly as they were told to do."

Maybe mindless superstition and senseless rituals are all that separate YOU
from the animals, but I like to think that we have the ability to reason and
make judgements. Based on that last election, though, I'm not so sure.

--riverman

"riverman" wrote in message
...

"Larry C" wrote in message
oups.com...
Let me pee on your parade.

snip



Larry, its your assertation that YOU know mindset of the 'mainstream' that
is precisely the core of what is so distasteful ABOUT the Christian right.
The 'moral majority' was neither moral nor in majority back in the 1970s,
nor is it today. And the entire 'we have Bush because of a failure of the
democratic party' line is precisely what your political leaders are
telling you to believe while they manipulate the media and the laws to
their own benefit, not yours. You'd be much more accurate to say "we have
Bush because a lot of gullible people voted without looking too deeply
into the situation, exactly as they were told to do."

Maybe mindless superstition and senseless rituals are all that separate
YOU from the animals, but I like to think that we have the ability to
reason and make judgements. Based on that last election, though, I'm not
so sure.

--riverman


And here you have the arrogance of the democratic party. If you don't agree
with me, you must be "gullible", you must be dumb and you must must be
wrong.

Idiot.

If you were willing to get your head out of... the sand, you'd see that
there are extremists on both the left and the right. There are intelligent
well-meaning people on both sides. Unless you got your opinions from a
mountain top, they aren't perfect and subject to be dead wrong.

It is perfectly acceptable for others to look at the facts and come to
conclusions that differ with your point of view. No matter how precious it
is to you and no matter how sure you are that your opinion must be the Only
One, there must be room for disagreement in any great country.

Lord Monkey Fist wrote:
"riverman" wrote in message
...

"Larry C" wrote in message
oups.com...
Let me pee on your parade.

snip



Larry, its your assertation that YOU know mindset of the
'mainstream' that
is precisely the core of what is so distasteful ABOUT the Christian
right.
The 'moral majority' was neither moral nor in majority back in the
1970s,
nor is it today. And the entire 'we have Bush because of a failure
of the
democratic party' line is precisely what your political leaders are

telling you to believe while they manipulate the media and the laws
to
their own benefit, not yours. You'd be much more accurate to say
"we have
Bush because a lot of gullible people voted without looking too
deeply
into the situation, exactly as they were told to do."

Maybe mindless superstition and senseless rituals are all that
separate
YOU from the animals, but I like to think that we have the ability
to
reason and make judgements. Based on that last election, though,
I'm not
so sure.

--riverman


And here you have the arrogance of the democratic party. If you don't
agree
with me, you must be "gullible", you must be dumb and you must must
be
wrong.

Idiot.

If you were willing to get your head out of... the sand, you'd see
that
there are extremists on both the left and the right. There are
intelligent
well-meaning people on both sides. Unless you got your opinions from
a
mountain top, they aren't perfect and subject to be dead wrong.

It is perfectly acceptable for others to look at the facts and come
to
conclusions that differ with your point of view. No matter how
precious it
is to you and no matter how sure you are that your opinion must be
the Only
One, there must be room for disagreement in any great country.

And as long as they keep making the same conclusion about our
gullibility, they will keep seeing the same results. Out of touch, and
out of office! TnT

The reason that I assert that the the the liberal left has lost touch
with America is that they have consisitantly lost ground in recent
elections to the Republic/moderate/right. That's just simple math, look
at the makeup of Congress, the Governorships of the states, and the
trend in memberships in the state legislatures. I live in a state that
is HEAVILY democratic, to the tune of 3 to 1, yet we now have a
Republican legislature and governor. Manipulated the Media? The media
I saw were all heavily in favor of Kerry.

But to blame this swing on "fundamentalist christians" is stereotyping
and scapegoating, frankly it sounds like a bunch of Nazis blaming all
their troubles on the Jews, or the Klan on the Blacks. Moyer
stated that there is a anti environmental element in the Protestant
Christian Religion, I say that it is absolute bull****. I don't see
armies of Christans wacking down trees to hurry the END. I've had to
sit through many a sermon in my day, from Catholic to Pentecostal, and
I have never heard anything like that from any of the pulpits. Do the
"Christians" vote a more conservative social value than espoused by the
Democratic Party? Yes, but mainly on issues like abortion and gay
marriage. But this is America and they do have the right to speak and
vote for what they believe whether you agree with them or not.

Frankly, I find the idea that since my guy didn't win, the people that
supported the winner are stupid and gullible as elitist at best. It's a
big country out there and people have a lot of different priorities on
why they vote, many may not be yours. But it's pretty evident from
recent elections that the Republicans have presented a program more to
their liking than the Democrats.

A Usenet persona calling itself Larry C wrote:

The reason that I assert that the the the liberal left has lost touch
with America is that they have consisitantly lost ground in recent
elections to the Republic/moderate/right. That's just simple math, look
at the makeup of Congress, the Governorships of the states, and the
trend in memberships in the state legislatures. I live in a state that
is HEAVILY democratic, to the tune of 3 to 1, yet we now have a
Republican legislature and governor. Manipulated the Media? The media
I saw were all heavily in favor of Kerry.

Want to know why this is happening, and will only continue to happen?

It's because lefty liberals are (not) breeding themselves into extinction.

When liberals resolve to not have kids in order to save the planet, where is
the next generation of lefty liberal tree-huggers going to come from and
who's going to inculcate them into socialist dogma so they can take over the
world?

Conservatives, on the other hand, view children as a positive benefit to
society and they like making babies, who they then raise as conservatives,
who then vote the increasingly endangered liberal/socialists out of office.

It's the essence of "hoist on their own petard" for the liberals.


But to blame this swing on "fundamentalist christians" is stereotyping
and scapegoating, frankly it sounds like a bunch of Nazis blaming all
their troubles on the Jews, or the Klan on the Blacks.

Indeed. Particularly when they identify anyone who holds any sort of
religious Christian belief as "The Moral Majority" or the "Religious Right"
or "fundamentalist Christians."

I'm none of the above, but even I know that, for example, the Catholic
church (members of which comprise more than 20% of the US population...some
65 million citizens) is just about evenly split these days between liberals
and conservatives when it comes to politics.

Moyer
stated that there is a anti environmental element in the Protestant
Christian Religion, I say that it is absolute bull****.

I agree. He's a hack.

I don't see
armies of Christans wacking down trees to hurry the END. I've had to
sit through many a sermon in my day, from Catholic to Pentecostal, and
I have never heard anything like that from any of the pulpits. Do the
"Christians" vote a more conservative social value than espoused by the
Democratic Party? Yes, but mainly on issues like abortion and gay
marriage. But this is America and they do have the right to speak and
vote for what they believe whether you agree with them or not.

Well put.


Frankly, I find the idea that since my guy didn't win, the people that
supported the winner are stupid and gullible as elitist at best. It's a
big country out there and people have a lot of different priorities on
why they vote, many may not be yours. But it's pretty evident from
recent elections that the Republicans have presented a program more to
their liking than the Democrats.


Yup. Democrats have radicalized their way right out of the public favor.
--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser

Scott Weiser wrote:
A Usenet persona calling itself Larry C wrote:

The reason that I assert that the the the liberal left has lost
touch
with America is that they have consisitantly lost ground in recent
elections to the Republic/moderate/right. That's just simple math,
look
at the makeup of Congress, the Governorships of the states, and the
trend in memberships in the state legislatures. I live in a state
that
is HEAVILY democratic, to the tune of 3 to 1, yet we now have a
Republican legislature and governor. Manipulated the Media? The
media
I saw were all heavily in favor of Kerry.

Want to know why this is happening, and will only continue to happen?

It's because lefty liberals are (not) breeding themselves into
extinction.

When liberals resolve to not have kids in order to save the planet,
where is
the next generation of lefty liberal tree-huggers going to come from
and
who's going to inculcate them into socialist dogma so they can take
over the
world?

Conservatives, on the other hand, view children as a positive benefit
to
society and they like making babies, who they then raise as
conservatives,
who then vote the increasingly endangered liberal/socialists out of
office.

It's the essence of "hoist on their own petard" for the liberals.


But to blame this swing on "fundamentalist christians" is
stereotyping
and scapegoating, frankly it sounds like a bunch of Nazis blaming
all
their troubles on the Jews, or the Klan on the Blacks.

Indeed. Particularly when they identify anyone who holds any sort of
religious Christian belief as "The Moral Majority" or the "Religious
Right"
or "fundamentalist Christians."

I'm none of the above, but even I know that, for example, the
Catholic
church (members of which comprise more than 20% of the US
population...some
65 million citizens) is just about evenly split these days between
liberals
and conservatives when it comes to politics.

Moyer
stated that there is a anti environmental element in the Protestant
Christian Religion, I say that it is absolute bull****.

I agree. He's a hack.

I don't see
armies of Christans wacking down trees to hurry the END. I've had
to
sit through many a sermon in my day, from Catholic to Pentecostal,
and
I have never heard anything like that from any of the pulpits. Do
the
"Christians" vote a more conservative social value than espoused by
the
Democratic Party? Yes, but mainly on issues like abortion and gay
marriage. But this is America and they do have the right to speak
and
vote for what they believe whether you agree with them or not.

Well put.


Frankly, I find the idea that since my guy didn't win, the people
that
supported the winner are stupid and gullible as elitist at best.
It's a
big country out there and people have a lot of different priorities
on
why they vote, many may not be yours. But it's pretty evident from
recent elections that the Republicans have presented a program more
to
their liking than the Democrats.


Yup. Democrats have radicalized their way right out of the public
favor.
--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

=A9 2005 Scott Weiser

Not only have they radicalized themselves right out of public favor,
but ironically, if all the aborted babies had lived to vote, they
probably would have pulled this last election away from the Right, and
they also would not have antagonized all the FC's in their support of
abortion over the last 30 years in the process. They probably did more
to mobilize the FC's than any other single source to their own demise!
TnT

Larry C says:
===============
The reason that I assert that the the the liberal left has lost touch
with America is that they have consisitantly lost ground in recent
elections to the Republic/moderate/right.

Frankly, I find the idea that since my guy didn't win, the people that
supported the winner are stupid and gullible as elitist at best.

But it's pretty evident from
recent elections that the Republicans have presented a program more to
their liking than the Democrats.
==============

Clearly, for you Americans, it is YOUR election and your government.
Unfortunately, as a nation, you are so powerful and influential that
who you elect has an impact on virtually every other soul on this
planet. YOU may have decided that the Bush right-wing agenda is right
for America. Many (the vast majority) of us outside of the United
States do not agree.

I find it curious and disheartening that America can be so out of step
with prevailing global opinions. The rest of the western world is
clearly "blue". Likely we could color the prevailing
anti-intellectualism of places like Afghanistan and other
fundamentalist cultures "red".

frtzw906

BCITORGB wrote:


Clearly, for you Americans, it is YOUR election and your government.
Unfortunately, as a nation, you are so powerful and influential that
who you elect has an impact on virtually every other soul on this
planet. YOU may have decided that the Bush right-wing agenda is right
for America. Many (the vast majority) of us outside of the United
States do not agree.

Well said Wilf. It's funny to see people who are both politically almost
off the far right side of the political scale complain about their
differences. It's troubling to see the ones representing them not only
try to carry out those ideas inside the U.S. but also try to force them
onto the rest of the world. It's even more troubling to see that they
are trying to export that what they call "democracy".

I find it curious and disheartening that America can be so out of step
with prevailing global opinions. The rest of the western world is
clearly "blue". Likely we could color the prevailing
anti-intellectualism of places like Afghanistan and other
fundamentalist cultures "red".

It's very simple: the vast majority of the U.S. population just don't
care what anyone else outside the U.S. thinks. :-(
Being that out of touch with the rest of the world and behaving like it
doesn't matter what anyone else thinks has one drawback though: it does
have its consequences when other people get it in their heads to make it
painfully clear to you that they have a differing opinion. Still,
nothing that can't be hidden (for a while) from the population through a
thick layer of propaganda...

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/