On 20-Feb-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:

They PRESUMED that the vast majority of citizens would be armed, and would
in fact be carrying arms most of the time, and would therefore be able to
use those arms to keep the peace and defend against criminal assault.

Personal defense against criminal assault? That's what a "militia"
defending against tyranical government is in your mind? Bizarre!

Mike

"KMAN" wrote in message
...


snippage...


Who are they? When did they tell me this?
================
You tell me. Or, were you just making up the stuff you
claimed about getting in for any test right away?

What are you talking about? You can't get any test you want
right away.
================
Wellthere you go. Thanks for finally admitting there are wait
lists...


However, you can get excellent care most everywhere and in the
event of living in a geographically isolated area or some other
area where there is less equipment and doctors than the norm,
tests for non-emergencies might result in a long wait.
=======================
That's part of the point, idiot. How do you know if it's an
emergency without the test? You really are that stupid, aren't
you?



Take a look into low birth weight babies born in
Canada vs
the
US. Being born low weight to a Canadian family is a
greater
risk
that being born to a African-American family in the
US.
Where
does that fit in with your ill-concieved ideas that
the
'poor'
in
the US suffer, while no-one in Canada does?

Where are you getting that information?
=======================
Try getting it yourself. You're the one in canada....

As I suspected. More yakety yak by someone who has no
idea.
==========================
LOL Thanks for proving that you are ignorant of computer
use.

Your statement does not compute.
=======================
Of course not, not to someone that apparently dosen't know
how to use theirs, eh?

Logic system failure.
====================
Yes, you have failed at alot of things here.

Core logic meltdown.
==============
Yes, you are there.



As far as making ignorant claims, there are more than a
few that
you have never backed up.

This is a weasely way of admitting that you can't back up
your claim.
====================
Nopde. Try again fool. I've even given you the hints...

No hinting necessary weasel.
=================
Of couirse not. You knew you were spouting idiocy when you
started. You just weren't expecting to be called on your
stupidity.

You haven't called me on anything.
==================
Yes, your ignorant jingoistic chest-thumping, fool.




snippage...



How many? What are they coming for? Why?
=======================
Why do all yours allegedly prefer the canadian system? I've
answered one reason right off the bat. No waits. In a couple
of cases the treatments needed weren't life threatening, but
very painful joint problems. They decided that their wait
time, and being dosed with painkillers instead of treatment
was medically unsound.

They prefer the Canadian system because the standard of care is
not dependent upon your income and you don't have to mortgage
your house to get the treatment that you need.
====================
More strawmen, marching to the tune of your ideology, eh?


Yes, you might indeed have to wait longer than
you would like to treat something that is painful but not
life-threatening.
=====================
Again, that's the point idiot. You don't know what is and is not
life-threatening without some of these teats. And, what isn't
life-threatening at that very moment may be if you have to wait 2
years for the dianostic tests.



As to the 'anywhere else on the planet', Canada barely
ranks
better than the US

And yet, ranks better, by whatever standard you are
using.
================
LOL Where have I ever claimed the US had no problems?
You on
the other hand are trying to defend the indefenseble.

Not at all. So far you have pointed out that certain people
looking for a
very specific type of scan in a non-emergency situation in
Newfoundland are
having to wait a long time. This is a far cry from the
statements about
peopel dying in waiting lines that brought me into this
goofy discussion.
==========================
LOL That you have to fisate on one example says alot about
your brainwashing. That you believe that that is the one
and only case available to find is a hoot.

It was your example.
================
Yes, one example of many. Why do you try to deny the months
long wait lists acroos Canada? More chest thumping?

What wait lists across Canada? All you have talked about is one
isolated case in Newfoundland.

I got involved in this thread because it was alleged that
Canadians are dying in waiting lines. That is total crap.
================
Not according to som,e of your own media, unions, and
universities, fool.




And there hasn't been one piece
of evidence to support the allegation, nothing but a story
about Newfoundland, and nothing having to do with people dying
while waiting.
====================
LOL Because YOU are afraid to research the data. Your idiocy
would be exposed to yourself that way..



and both are in the 30s, from the top of best
care. Both have serious problems, and jingoistically
pounding
your chest about being #30 doesn't really mean anything,
does
it?


This means, logically,
at the other end of the scale a very rich person may
indeed
opt
to seek care
elsewhere.
================
Again, yes, rather than to wait until they are an
'emergency'
case.

You have no clue.
=====================
Yes, apparently more than you.

There is no evidence of that.
====================
I've posted real data, from real sites.

Perhaps so, but none to support your argument.
====================
LOL So, the sites I have posted have somehow said that there
are no wait times in canada? Man, you do have comprhension
problems, don't you?

There are wait times in every medical system.

Nobody in Canada is dying while waiting, as was alleged.
==================
Not according to sources in your own country.




You seem to be making it up as you go. Come on, provide
more than just your say-so that there are no waiting lines
for Canadian health-care.

If you mean that somewhere in a doctor's office or emergency
room someone is waiting, I have to agree.

But no one is dying in a waiting line.
======================
An assertion that is not backed up by canadian sources. And
for many, the decision is not to wait until then, but to go
elsewhere for treatment.

No one is dying in a waiting line as alleged.

==================
Not according to sources in your own country.





I went to the doctor just last Monday. I called on Friday.
Got an appointment Monday afternoon. Received excellent care.
Got a prescription, had it filled that day. What's the
problem?
======================
ummm, one example. Somehow I get the feeling that one exmple
for youis adequate, but I have to show that every Canadian is
waiting for specialized treatment. see your ideology is
still in control, rather that rationality.

You seem to have some bizarre notions about how things work
here, so I was sharing with you a real life example.
======================
LOL Yet when I shared 'one' example of the other extreme it was
somenow not pertenent. Seems you have a bizarre notion of 'real
life' examples. I gave you other real life examples as well.


The fact that there is no evidence to
sustantiate the allegation of people dying in waiting lines
should of course been enough for you.
==================
Not according to sources in your own country.






You are basing your ridiculous views on an isolated
situation
in
Newfoundland. That's like basing my view of US health
care on
some spot in
Alaska.
=====================
Isolated? What a hoot!!! Try some research fool.
Start at
the Fraser Institute. Surely you've heard of them.
They're in
Canada.

I know all about the Fraser Institute. LOL. Now perhaps I
have at least a
partial explanation of where you are getting these crazy
ideas. The
secondary name for the Fraser Institue is "I wish George W.
Bush was the
Prime Minister of Canada." Asking what the Fraser Institute
thinks about
Canadian Health Care is like asking the NRA for objective
advice on
handguns. Only worse! ROFL
====================
They are but one. But nice to see your ideology won't let
truth get in your way. Keep trying fool, maybe someday
you'll learn something other than your brainwashed opinion.

Heehee. You are so silly.
===============
Teehee, and you are still an ignorant buffoon.

At least I know that the Fraser Institute isn't the place to go
for objective information. You really looked pathetic spouting
off about that. You could just hear the collective guffaws!
=======================
The data is there. that you reject it because of the messenger
says more about your ideology than your intelligence.



All it manages to do is promote a
have vs have-not conflict.

?

"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...
On 20-Feb-2005, "rick" wrote:

Start at the Fraser Institute.

The Fraser Institute hardly constitutes an unbiased source.
Sort of like getting your news from Fox.
================
Then try CBC, unions, and Universities. That you want to kill
the messenger for putting all the data together says more about
your desire to disinform than to rationally look at the data.



Mike

On 20-Feb-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:

It's so much cheaper and more economical to
do it that way than to try to close the border.

But the solution you propose is for us to close our border.

Sorry, your problem - you fix it. Stop blaming everyone else.

Mike

On 20-Feb-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:

Doctors in the US don't go on strike because
they are not granted a government controlled monopoly.

Doctors in Canada have not been granted a government controlled
monopoly. Try again, only this time, deal with the facts.

Mike

On 20-Feb-2005, Scott Weiser wrote:

And you're a moron with an IQ of 40 who drools on his keyboard.

I'm sorry, you seem to have mistaken me for one of your friends.

Mike

rick says of KMAN:
==============
Again, that's the point idiot. You don't know what is and is not
life-threatening without some of these teats.
===============

No, you friggin' idiot, but our doctors DO KNOW whether these tests are
required for further diagnosis to continue. IF the tests are deemed to
be necessary, by medical professionals, I can assure you, they get
done.

Let's remember, many tests are in the "nice to have but not essential"
category. Further, let's not overlook the fact that American patients
are very often "over tested". Many tests done in the USA are done not
for diagnostic purposes but, rather, for "cover your ass against
possible future litigation" purposes.

Anecdotal: I took my daughter to the clinic in the nearby mall to have
a doctor look at her soccer injury. An X-Ray was recommended. Today,
after school, we went to the X-ray clinic, presented her medical plan
number (for billing purposes), took a number, sat down, "waited" 20
minutes, and had the X-ray taken. Next door, others were going through
the similar procedures for other diagnostic tests. No "waits"! Take a
number. Wait (usually less than 30 minutes). Many satisfied patients
every day.

You're always on about "straw men", but that's no wonder: you're the
one who constructs them.

frtzw906

rick says, in reference to healthcare systems:
=================
As does the Canadian one compared to many other systems.
=================

I think the "healthcare" debate is an important one. I'm open to your
input regarding what might be improvements to what Canada has. Or, in
your opinion, is there a national system which you think is worth
emulating?

I don't think we need to be calling one another idiots (unless it's for
guys who can't get past "if it's American it must be the best"
positions).

Anyway, I'm happy to explore alternate systems.

frtzw906

"BCITORGB" wrote in message
ups.com...
rick says, in reference to healthcare systems:
=================
As does the Canadian one compared to many other systems.
=================

I think the "healthcare" debate is an important one. I'm open
to your
input regarding what might be improvements to what Canada has.
Or, in
your opinion, is there a national system which you think is
worth
emulating?

I don't think we need to be calling one another idiots (unless
it's for
guys who can't get past "if it's American it must be the best"
positions).
================
LOL In this case it applies to those that can't accept the
problems in Canadian health care, and can't get passed the
"it's Canadian and not American, so it has to be the best."


Anyway, I'm happy to explore alternate systems.
=================
Not if, like kman, you refuse to even accept that there are wait
lists, and only 'localized' problems.



frtzw906

in article et, rick at
wrote on 2/21/05 8:52 PM:


"KMAN" wrote in message
...


snippage...


Who are they? When did they tell me this?
================
You tell me. Or, were you just making up the stuff you
claimed about getting in for any test right away?

What are you talking about? You can't get any test you want
right away.
================
Wellthere you go. Thanks for finally admitting there are wait
lists...

Huh? I never said nobody has to wait. I've mentioned at least a dozen times
that it is possible someone would have to wait for a certain procedure. But
so it is with any system.

What I said was no one is dying waiting for medical care as has been
alleged.

However, you can get excellent care most everywhere and in the
event of living in a geographically isolated area or some other
area where there is less equipment and doctors than the norm,
tests for non-emergencies might result in a long wait.
=======================
That's part of the point, idiot. How do you know if it's an
emergency without the test? You really are that stupid, aren't
you?

Don't be silly. We aren't talking about someone coming to the hospital and
not getting any tests done. The type of tests where someone is waiting is
where the medical issue is known and the situation is known to be non
life-threatening.

As far as making ignorant claims, there are more than a
few that
you have never backed up.

This is a weasely way of admitting that you can't back up
your claim.
====================
Nopde. Try again fool. I've even given you the hints...

No hinting necessary weasel.
=================
Of couirse not. You knew you were spouting idiocy when you
started. You just weren't expecting to be called on your
stupidity.

You haven't called me on anything.
==================
Yes, your ignorant jingoistic chest-thumping, fool.

More of your brilliance on display.

How many? What are they coming for? Why?
=======================
Why do all yours allegedly prefer the canadian system? I've
answered one reason right off the bat. No waits. In a couple
of cases the treatments needed weren't life threatening, but
very painful joint problems. They decided that their wait
time, and being dosed with painkillers instead of treatment
was medically unsound.

They prefer the Canadian system because the standard of care is
not dependent upon your income and you don't have to mortgage
your house to get the treatment that you need.
====================
More strawmen, marching to the tune of your ideology, eh?

No, that's one of the things that gets mentioned most often. You asked what
they say, and I told you.

Maybe at least as often they mention how in Canada the doctor and
institution are there to focus on your care, and in the US it feels like you
are just a commodity being used to generate as much cash as possible.

Yes, you might indeed have to wait longer than
you would like to treat something that is painful but not
life-threatening.
=====================
Again, that's the point idiot. You don't know what is and is not
life-threatening without some of these teats. And, what isn't
life-threatening at that very moment may be if you have to wait 2
years for the dianostic tests.

It's too bad you are so busy engaging in name-calling and propping up your
ego that you aren't willing to learn something. You obviously know nothing
about this, and you are making a joke of yourself. There is no one waiting
to have their health problems diagnosed. People who are waiting (I don't
know anyone myself who is waiting for any type of care, elective or
otherwise) have known medical issues that are continually monitored. Just
because someone has to wait for a certain type of scan doesn't mean they
aren't still receiving medical care.

As to the 'anywhere else on the planet', Canada barely
ranks
better than the US

And yet, ranks better, by whatever standard you are
using.
================
LOL Where have I ever claimed the US had no problems?
You on
the other hand are trying to defend the indefenseble.

Not at all. So far you have pointed out that certain people
looking for a
very specific type of scan in a non-emergency situation in
Newfoundland are
having to wait a long time. This is a far cry from the
statements about
peopel dying in waiting lines that brought me into this
goofy discussion.
==========================
LOL That you have to fisate on one example says alot about
your brainwashing. That you believe that that is the one
and only case available to find is a hoot.

It was your example.
================
Yes, one example of many. Why do you try to deny the months
long wait lists acroos Canada? More chest thumping?

What wait lists across Canada? All you have talked about is one
isolated case in Newfoundland.

I got involved in this thread because it was alleged that
Canadians are dying in waiting lines. That is total crap.
================
Not according to som,e of your own media, unions, and
universities, fool.

A fool makes an accusation without evidence to support it. If you are
alleging that Canadians are dying waiting to receive health care, prove it.
Otherwise, you know exactly what you are.

And there hasn't been one piece
of evidence to support the allegation, nothing but a story
about Newfoundland, and nothing having to do with people dying
while waiting.
====================
LOL Because YOU are afraid to research the data. Your idiocy
would be exposed to yourself that way..

Yawn. More weasel words. Let's face facts, if you could possible post
information to make you look a bit less stupid, you would do so. You can't
because it doesn't exist.

and both are in the 30s, from the top of best
care. Both have serious problems, and jingoistically
pounding
your chest about being #30 doesn't really mean anything,
does
it?


This means, logically,
at the other end of the scale a very rich person may
indeed
opt
to seek care
elsewhere.
================
Again, yes, rather than to wait until they are an
'emergency'
case.

You have no clue.
=====================
Yes, apparently more than you.

There is no evidence of that.
====================
I've posted real data, from real sites.

Perhaps so, but none to support your argument.
====================
LOL So, the sites I have posted have somehow said that there
are no wait times in canada? Man, you do have comprhension
problems, don't you?

There are wait times in every medical system.

Nobody in Canada is dying while waiting, as was alleged.
==================
Not according to sources in your own country.

You haven't shown us any.

You seem to be making it up as you go. Come on, provide
more than just your say-so that there are no waiting lines
for Canadian health-care.

If you mean that somewhere in a doctor's office or emergency
room someone is waiting, I have to agree.

But no one is dying in a waiting line.
======================
An assertion that is not backed up by canadian sources. And
for many, the decision is not to wait until then, but to go
elsewhere for treatment.

No one is dying in a waiting line as alleged.

==================
Not according to sources in your own country.

You haven't shown us any.





I went to the doctor just last Monday. I called on Friday.
Got an appointment Monday afternoon. Received excellent care.
Got a prescription, had it filled that day. What's the
problem?
======================
ummm, one example. Somehow I get the feeling that one exmple
for youis adequate, but I have to show that every Canadian is
waiting for specialized treatment. see your ideology is
still in control, rather that rationality.

You seem to have some bizarre notions about how things work
here, so I was sharing with you a real life example.
======================
LOL Yet when I shared 'one' example of the other extreme it was
somenow not pertenent.

It was "pertenent" in that it shows that in a geographically isolated area
of Canada with a small population the standard of care is a behind what is
available elsewhere. That's unfortunate, and it is something all Canadians
want improved. But your example does nothing to demonstrate that people in
Canada are dying waiting for treatment as has been alleged.

Seems you have a bizarre notion of 'real
life' examples. I gave you other real life examples as well.

I fully acknowledged your example.


The fact that there is no evidence to
sustantiate the allegation of people dying in waiting lines
should of course been enough for you.
==================
Not according to sources in your own country.

You haven't provided any. Thus far they are only in your mind.

You are basing your ridiculous views on an isolated
situation
in
Newfoundland. That's like basing my view of US health
care on
some spot in
Alaska.
=====================
Isolated? What a hoot!!! Try some research fool.
Start at
the Fraser Institute. Surely you've heard of them.
They're in
Canada.

I know all about the Fraser Institute. LOL. Now perhaps I
have at least a
partial explanation of where you are getting these crazy
ideas. The
secondary name for the Fraser Institue is "I wish George W.
Bush was the
Prime Minister of Canada." Asking what the Fraser Institute
thinks about
Canadian Health Care is like asking the NRA for objective
advice on
handguns. Only worse! ROFL
====================
They are but one. But nice to see your ideology won't let
truth get in your way. Keep trying fool, maybe someday
you'll learn something other than your brainwashed opinion.

Heehee. You are so silly.
===============
Teehee, and you are still an ignorant buffoon.

At least I know that the Fraser Institute isn't the place to go
for objective information. You really looked pathetic spouting
off about that. You could just hear the collective guffaws!
=======================
The data is there. that you reject it because of the messenger
says more about your ideology than your intelligence.

Christ, I can go to this or that institute that has data to prove that the
Holocaust never happened. The messenger is hardly irrelevant. This has
nothing to do with ideology for me. The Fraser Institute, on the other hand,
is well known and commonly ridiculed for their voracious right-wing
ideology.