A Usenet persona calling itself BCITORGB wrote:

Larry C says:
===============
The reason that I assert that the the the liberal left has lost touch
with America is that they have consisitantly lost ground in recent
elections to the Republic/moderate/right.

Frankly, I find the idea that since my guy didn't win, the people that
supported the winner are stupid and gullible as elitist at best.

But it's pretty evident from
recent elections that the Republicans have presented a program more to
their liking than the Democrats.
==============

Clearly, for you Americans, it is YOUR election and your government.
Unfortunately, as a nation, you are so powerful and influential that
who you elect has an impact on virtually every other soul on this
planet.

And we like it that way...and intend to keep it that way.

YOU may have decided that the Bush right-wing agenda is right
for America. Many (the vast majority) of us outside of the United
States do not agree.

Tough noogies. We are under no obligation to conform to your liberal
socialist agenda (or whatever dogma you prefer) merely because you don't
like our system of government.


I find it curious and disheartening that America can be so out of step
with prevailing global opinions.

Well, it's because we are smart enough to learn the lessons of history that
prove that socialism is an unworkable political concept and that
representative democracy and capitalism are the most effective way to ensure
liberty, freedom and justice for all.

The rest of the western world is
clearly "blue".

"Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm
not sure about the former." Albert Einstein

Hopefully the rest of the western world will come to their senses.

There's a reason that we're the most powerful and influential nation on the
face of the earth, and socialism is not it.


--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser

BCITORGB wrote:
Larry C says:
===============
The reason that I assert that the the the liberal left has lost touch
with America is that they have consisitantly lost ground in recent
elections to the Republic/moderate/right.

Frankly, I find the idea that since my guy didn't win, the people
that
supported the winner are stupid and gullible as elitist at best.

But it's pretty evident from
recent elections that the Republicans have presented a program more
to
their liking than the Democrats.
==============

Clearly, for you Americans, it is YOUR election and your government.
Unfortunately, as a nation, you are so powerful and influential that
who you elect has an impact on virtually every other soul on this
planet. YOU may have decided that the Bush right-wing agenda is right
for America. Many (the vast majority) of us outside of the United
States do not agree.

I find it curious and disheartening that America can be so out of
step
with prevailing global opinions. The rest of the western world is
clearly "blue". Likely we could color the prevailing
anti-intellectualism of places like Afghanistan and other
fundamentalist cultures "red".

frtzw906


frtzw906, I appreciate your starting statement - it is our election,
and our government. I would understand that you are not from the US, so
you do not find any obligation to identify personally with the results.


You say though that we are out of step with the prevailing global
position. Can you share what you feel that opinion generally would
amount to. I have heard so much scuttlebut about left and right, red an
blue, that I am interested in your fresh insight. That way we could
discuss specifics. Thankyou for your input, in advance. TnT

If the US was more like the rest of the world then we would not be
powerful and so influential in the world. If all the other countries in
the world was more like the US then we would not be the most powerful
and influential country in the world because they would be the US's equal.

The citizens of the United States should always vote what is best for
our country, not what is best for other countries. The world should not
dictate to the US what type of government we have. The Kyoto treaty is
an example of the world trying to stop our technological growth and our
strong economy.

lynn

BCITORGB wrote:
Larry C says:
===============
The reason that I assert that the the the liberal left has lost touch
with America is that they have consisitantly lost ground in recent
elections to the Republic/moderate/right.

Frankly, I find the idea that since my guy didn't win, the people that
supported the winner are stupid and gullible as elitist at best.

But it's pretty evident from
recent elections that the Republicans have presented a program more to
their liking than the Democrats.
==============

Clearly, for you Americans, it is YOUR election and your government.
Unfortunately, as a nation, you are so powerful and influential that
who you elect has an impact on virtually every other soul on this
planet. YOU may have decided that the Bush right-wing agenda is right
for America. Many (the vast majority) of us outside of the United
States do not agree.

I find it curious and disheartening that America can be so out of step
with prevailing global opinions. The rest of the western world is
clearly "blue". Likely we could color the prevailing
anti-intellectualism of places like Afghanistan and other
fundamentalist cultures "red".

frtzw906

Larry C wrote:

....stuff deleted
I've come to the conclusion that the current fad of the left of blaming
all the ills of the country on the Christian Right as an act of mental
masturbation of a group that lost contact with the mainstream in 1968
and never has caught up. Even in this election, the percentage of
"Christian" voters was nearly the same as in past elections. But it's
easier to blame the "Christians" than to admit that the party supported
unpopular social views while failing to articulate a clearly defined
alternative to the present administration.

I personally feel that mindless superstition and senseless rituals are
all that seperate us from the animals, but blaming the "Christians" for
the failure of the Democratic party and the percieved lack of
environmental concern of the present administration is laughable.


Larry,

Sadly, this agenda is real. It was first expounded by James Watt about
20 years ago, and there are individuals in Bush's cabinet who also hold
this view. Nobody said that this was a mainstream movement, nor that it
was the agenda of all protestent religions, just that it exists. Sadly,
these cultists are in positions of power in our government. Moyer is not
the only individual who has stated this, he is just one of many
competent journalists who have.

Rick

IAll this seems to attributed to two quotes

"My responsibility is to follow the Scriptures which call upon us to
occupy the land until Jesus returns." -- James Watt, The Washington
Post, May 24, 1981

The other is that "we don't need to protect the environment, the second
coming is near."

The first is out of a Washington Post interview, while it can be
constrewed to be pro developemental, it is hardly a statement that
endorses environmental destruction. BTW, the is no doubt that Watts was
pro developement.

I can't find the origin or context of the second statement, so I don't
know how serious or even how accurate that statement needs to be taken.
If you can find the full text, let me know.

I find nothing that ties Gale Norton to the same religious beliefs
other than working for James G Watts.

A Usenet persona calling itself Rick wrote:

Larry C wrote:

...stuff deleted
I've come to the conclusion that the current fad of the left of blaming
all the ills of the country on the Christian Right as an act of mental
masturbation of a group that lost contact with the mainstream in 1968
and never has caught up. Even in this election, the percentage of
"Christian" voters was nearly the same as in past elections. But it's
easier to blame the "Christians" than to admit that the party supported
unpopular social views while failing to articulate a clearly defined
alternative to the present administration.

I personally feel that mindless superstition and senseless rituals are
all that seperate us from the animals, but blaming the "Christians" for
the failure of the Democratic party and the percieved lack of
environmental concern of the present administration is laughable.


Larry,

Sadly, this agenda is real. It was first expounded by James Watt about
20 years ago,

Prove it.

and there are individuals in Bush's cabinet who also hold
this view.

Prove it.

Nobody said that this was a mainstream movement, nor that it
was the agenda of all protestent religions, just that it exists. Sadly,
these cultists are in positions of power in our government. Moyer is not
the only individual who has stated this, he is just one of many
competent journalists who have.

Moyers is not a competent journalist, he's a leftist propagandist opinion
columnist who repeated a blogger's lie about Watt. What Moyers claims Watt
said never happened.

--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser

On 6-Feb-2005, "Larry C" wrote:

I've come to the conclusion that the current fad of the left of blaming
all the ills of the country on the Christian Right as an act of mental
masturbation of a group that lost contact with the mainstream in 1968
and never has caught up.

And yet the anti-liberal stance is just the right blaming the left for
all the ills of the country.

Mike

A Usenet persona calling itself Michael Daly wrote:

On 6-Feb-2005, "Larry C" wrote:

I've come to the conclusion that the current fad of the left of blaming
all the ills of the country on the Christian Right as an act of mental
masturbation of a group that lost contact with the mainstream in 1968
and never has caught up.

And yet the anti-liberal stance is just the right blaming the left for
all the ills of the country.

Difference is, they're correct.

--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser

On 6 Feb 2005 07:29:22 -0800, "Larry C" vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Well that says it all about your opinions.

I personally feel that mindless superstition and senseless rituals are
all that seperate us from the animals,

On 6 Feb 2005 07:29:22 -0800, "Larry C" vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Let me pee on your parade.

Now _that's_ going to get you listened to!

Guys, I've grown up in the Bible Belt and have probably heard just
about every protestant religion at some point or another, and I have
never heard anyone in any of these religions spew such unadulterated
crap. In fact, quite the opposite, many protestant religions are quite
active in the environmental movement.

Well I have. I have heard from an otherwise quite sensible Catholic
that world population should not be controlled, because when the
crunch comes, it's simply God's will. ALl the suffereing (which we
already see) is OK. Watt's ideas are only just a bit further around
that bend.

I've come to the conclusion that the current fad of the left of blaming
all the ills of the country on the Christian Right as an act of mental
masturbation of a group that lost contact with the mainstream in 1968
and never has caught up. Even in this election, the percentage of
"Christian" voters was nearly the same as in past elections. But it's
easier to blame the "Christians" than to admit that the party supported
unpopular social views while failing to articulate a clearly defined
alternative to the present administration.


but blaming the "Christians" for
the failure of the Democratic party and the percieved lack of
environmental concern of the present administration is laughable.

Now here I agree with you. But I don't think the "Christians" are the
only ones being blamed. There are many at fault. Rampant greed is the
fault. But if a famous right Christian paints a target on the arse of
all of his ilk, they should blame _him_, not the people who talk
disparagingly about him.