On Wed, 16 Mar 2011 18:46:55 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 15:58:29 -0700, Jessica B
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 06:05:28 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 17:10:35 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 05:36:23 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:39:11 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Jessica B" wrote in message
news:9mqin6hvnl13a7irpbmqh0f221sq0419qe@4ax. com...
On Wed, 9 Mar 2011 22:39:40 -0800, Mark Borgerson
wrote:

In article s.com,
says...

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 09 Mar 2011 08:18:02 -0500, Gogarty
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011 16:37:19 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Bruce" wrote in message
m...
snip


Willie-boy, I keep telling you and telling you that you exhibit
your
lack of knowledge every time you open your mouth. My mate, the
Australian, is 76 years old and sails a 55 ft Ferro boat with a
mechanical anchor windless and gets along quite well single
handing
it.

Of course, he IS a sailor, not a wantabe.
Cheers,




Nothing looks quite a silly as an old man with skinny arms off of
which
the
skin hangs in folds standing on the bow of an overly large and
cumbersome
yacht pulling on the lever of a creaky old mechanical windlass,
slowly
stroking away with one inch of chain coming in at a pull.

If that isn't a good enough argument for downsizing then nothing
will
convince you.


Just goes to show you how little some people know about boats. People
who sail 50' ferro boats don't have an expensive lever operated
Simpson Lawrence winch. they have a geared two speed, local made,
fisherman windlass. the one with the exposed gears. See
http://motivationdocksupply.com/winc...nd-winches.php for an
example.

Wow! I will recommend those windlasses to my freind with the Endeavour
42.


Well... an Endeavour 42 IS a bit more upmarket then a ferrocement
boat, usually :-)


Those things are so S-L-O-W! (and ugly)

S-L-O-W and ugly are relative. Are you in such a big hurry that the
difference between 4Kt and 6Kt makea a big difference?

Mark Borgerson


I just did a simple calculation... say you wanted to go 1000 miles,
1000m/6mph = 7 days vs. 1000m/4mph = 10 days. This seems like a big
difference to me, but what do I know.


Right you are, Jessica. You sure have a good head on your shoulders (for a
girl, LOL!) Often overlooked is the fact that the longer the voyage takes
the greater the chances of experiencing storm conditions. If you have
already arrived and are safe and secure in port while a slower boat is still
two or three days from arriving that boat could get hit by severe weather in
an exposed environment while the faster boat will not be exposed.

That fact alone does not bode well for unnecessarily slow boats like the old
Colin Archer heavy-displacement slowcoaches (Westsail 32, for example). The
only thing that antique design has going for it is it's slow primarily
because it was built in such a way as to be heavy and deep draft and
short-sticked which allows it to better survive heavy weather. But, it's
really kind of stupid in that the very slowness that allows it to survive
heavy weather makes it that much more likely that it will be caught in heavy
weather.


Wilbur Hubbard

And Willie the dummy is heard from again.

You really aren't much of a cruiser are you? Worrying about your slow
boat exposing you to a storm? Oh Vey, and such a brave sailor; you
better stay home and read a book..... but of course that is what you
do.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Bruce it seems like it would make it more difficult to get places if
you have to go slowly. If there was a big storm coming in and it'll
arrive in 10 days, you could still go if you know you can make it in
7, but if it's close to the limit on how long it'll take, then you'd
have to sit and wait.

I don't know how tight a schedule you can make, but I think I'd want
more time vs less time.


You really don't know much about sailing, do you.

I thought I was Capt. Wil?


If you 'knew' that there was a big storm coming in ten days it would
have to be something pretty special as a depression which was called a
'storm' would have either worsened or decreased considerably in ten
days and if it were severe enough to be called a storm then I suspect
that any prudent sailor would wait it out.

I'm going by what I see on accuweather.com. They predict out to 15
days. Obviously it's not totally accurate, but it seems like it would
give you a good idea what's coming.

Fine, if you are out for the day, but what about a cruise, say from
San Diego to the Hawaiian Islands; or Singapore to India? A proper
voyage, one might say.

Don't know about sailing across an ocean... why would anyone want to
do that on a slow boat? Seems like that would be when you want a fast
boat (or a plane?) lol


Secondly if one were cruising any distance, say San Diego - Hawaii
one has little chance to out run any weather pattern. Of course if
one's "cruising' is a day trip down the bay it is a different story,
isn't it.

What about something shorter? How about a 6-day trip? Wouldn't you
want to be able to get there and back without worrying so much?

A six day trip to where? If it was a week "cruise" that I'm doing as
my annual holiday then I'd want to laze along and take my time. If I
have to lay over for weather then that's just the way it goes. If it
were a six day cruise to get somewhere I really want to get to then it
would depend on what was being forecast. But trying to sail in weather
windows and never seeing a "storm" is pretty much wishful thinking.

It seems like you're picking nits... I think you have a better chance
of making a trip in one piece if you can shorten the travel time. Even
if you want to "laze along" what if you need to step things up?

Just as a matter of idle interest a 10 ft. LWL boat has a hull speed
of 4.24 K, 20 ft. = 5.99, 30 = 7.34 and 40=8.47 and given that most
boats will be somewhat longer, on deck, then their water line, the
speeds that you are envisaging to out run your storm are simply not
there.

Assuming a 40 ft. (LOD) boat probably has a LWL of about 30 ft. then
it's probable maximum speed under sail is about 7.34. and 7.34 X 24
hours is abut 170 miles per day under perfect sailing conditions, a
highly unlikely enough condition that, as I've said, makes a good brag
in the pub.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Ok, but that wasn't what was being talked about. It was a comparison
between two different speeds.

I never said I don't think about out-running any storms.

"Two different speeds" on a small sailing yacht may be the difference
between 1 knot forward and two knots backward, depending on the tide.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Ok... so if you have boat that'll go 10 mph and the reverse tide is
pulling you at 5 mph vs. you have a boat that'll only go 5 mph....

We have a winner, folks!

212 lines

On Wed, 16 Mar 2011 16:02:48 -0700, Jessica B
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Mar 2011 18:46:55 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 15:58:29 -0700, Jessica B
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 06:05:28 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 17:10:35 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 05:36:23 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:39:11 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Jessica B" wrote in message
news:9mqin6hvnl13a7irpbmqh0f221sq0419qe@4ax .com...
On Wed, 9 Mar 2011 22:39:40 -0800, Mark Borgerson
wrote:

In article s.com,
says...

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 09 Mar 2011 08:18:02 -0500, Gogarty
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011 16:37:19 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Bruce" wrote in message
m...
snip


Willie-boy, I keep telling you and telling you that you exhibit
your
lack of knowledge every time you open your mouth. My mate, the
Australian, is 76 years old and sails a 55 ft Ferro boat with a
mechanical anchor windless and gets along quite well single
handing
it.

Of course, he IS a sailor, not a wantabe.
Cheers,




Nothing looks quite a silly as an old man with skinny arms off of
which
the
skin hangs in folds standing on the bow of an overly large and
cumbersome
yacht pulling on the lever of a creaky old mechanical windlass,
slowly
stroking away with one inch of chain coming in at a pull.

If that isn't a good enough argument for downsizing then nothing
will
convince you.


Just goes to show you how little some people know about boats. People
who sail 50' ferro boats don't have an expensive lever operated
Simpson Lawrence winch. they have a geared two speed, local made,
fisherman windlass. the one with the exposed gears. See
http://motivationdocksupply.com/winc...nd-winches.php for an
example.

Wow! I will recommend those windlasses to my freind with the Endeavour
42.


Well... an Endeavour 42 IS a bit more upmarket then a ferrocement
boat, usually :-)


Those things are so S-L-O-W! (and ugly)

S-L-O-W and ugly are relative. Are you in such a big hurry that the
difference between 4Kt and 6Kt makea a big difference?

Mark Borgerson


I just did a simple calculation... say you wanted to go 1000 miles,
1000m/6mph = 7 days vs. 1000m/4mph = 10 days. This seems like a big
difference to me, but what do I know.


Right you are, Jessica. You sure have a good head on your shoulders (for a
girl, LOL!) Often overlooked is the fact that the longer the voyage takes
the greater the chances of experiencing storm conditions. If you have
already arrived and are safe and secure in port while a slower boat is still
two or three days from arriving that boat could get hit by severe weather in
an exposed environment while the faster boat will not be exposed.

That fact alone does not bode well for unnecessarily slow boats like the old
Colin Archer heavy-displacement slowcoaches (Westsail 32, for example). The
only thing that antique design has going for it is it's slow primarily
because it was built in such a way as to be heavy and deep draft and
short-sticked which allows it to better survive heavy weather. But, it's
really kind of stupid in that the very slowness that allows it to survive
heavy weather makes it that much more likely that it will be caught in heavy
weather.


Wilbur Hubbard

And Willie the dummy is heard from again.

You really aren't much of a cruiser are you? Worrying about your slow
boat exposing you to a storm? Oh Vey, and such a brave sailor; you
better stay home and read a book..... but of course that is what you
do.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Bruce it seems like it would make it more difficult to get places if
you have to go slowly. If there was a big storm coming in and it'll
arrive in 10 days, you could still go if you know you can make it in
7, but if it's close to the limit on how long it'll take, then you'd
have to sit and wait.

I don't know how tight a schedule you can make, but I think I'd want
more time vs less time.


You really don't know much about sailing, do you.

I thought I was Capt. Wil?


If you 'knew' that there was a big storm coming in ten days it would
have to be something pretty special as a depression which was called a
'storm' would have either worsened or decreased considerably in ten
days and if it were severe enough to be called a storm then I suspect
that any prudent sailor would wait it out.

I'm going by what I see on accuweather.com. They predict out to 15
days. Obviously it's not totally accurate, but it seems like it would
give you a good idea what's coming.

Fine, if you are out for the day, but what about a cruise, say from
San Diego to the Hawaiian Islands; or Singapore to India? A proper
voyage, one might say.

Don't know about sailing across an ocean... why would anyone want to
do that on a slow boat? Seems like that would be when you want a fast
boat (or a plane?) lol

Because all sailboats, at least those that are of a size that Mr.
Average can own, are inherently slow. I previously posted you the hull
speeds of various water lengths, and even those are higher speeds then
the average speeds one is likely to encounter on a cruise of any
length.


Secondly if one were cruising any distance, say San Diego - Hawaii
one has little chance to out run any weather pattern. Of course if
one's "cruising' is a day trip down the bay it is a different story,
isn't it.

What about something shorter? How about a 6-day trip? Wouldn't you
want to be able to get there and back without worrying so much?

A six day trip to where? If it was a week "cruise" that I'm doing as
my annual holiday then I'd want to laze along and take my time. If I
have to lay over for weather then that's just the way it goes. If it
were a six day cruise to get somewhere I really want to get to then it
would depend on what was being forecast. But trying to sail in weather
windows and never seeing a "storm" is pretty much wishful thinking.

It seems like you're picking nits... I think you have a better chance
of making a trip in one piece if you can shorten the travel time. Even
if you want to "laze along" what if you need to step things up?

Frankly the opposite is more the truth. It is a very large storm that
is likely to overcome a normal sailing yacht so the "better chance" is
more a matter of how comfortable one wants to be. Very, very, few
yachts are actually sunk by storms. Even in the 1979 Fastnet disaster
when 25 racing boats were sunk or disabled, was primarily a matter of
attempting to race in force 6 - 7 winds. One of the rescue boats
reported encountering a cruising boat on its way to the Med that was
making reasonable progress under reefed sails with no difficulties.


Just as a matter of idle interest a 10 ft. LWL boat has a hull speed
of 4.24 K, 20 ft. = 5.99, 30 = 7.34 and 40=8.47 and given that most
boats will be somewhat longer, on deck, then their water line, the
speeds that you are envisaging to out run your storm are simply not
there.

Assuming a 40 ft. (LOD) boat probably has a LWL of about 30 ft. then
it's probable maximum speed under sail is about 7.34. and 7.34 X 24
hours is abut 170 miles per day under perfect sailing conditions, a
highly unlikely enough condition that, as I've said, makes a good brag
in the pub.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Ok, but that wasn't what was being talked about. It was a comparison
between two different speeds.

I never said I don't think about out-running any storms.

"Two different speeds" on a small sailing yacht may be the difference
between 1 knot forward and two knots backward, depending on the tide.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Ok... so if you have boat that'll go 10 mph and the reverse tide is
pulling you at 5 mph vs. you have a boat that'll only go 5 mph....

You are still looking at speeds in excess of what the "normal"
cruising boat is capable of sustaining for any cruise.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

OIC... well, I guess a really small boat going fast or slow wouldn't
be as safe as a bigger boat in bad weather?


Dear Jessibur B

Your a woman think of it in terms of a cock; really small going fast
or bigger and faster. What has your experince been my dear?

Robert Pennington Rexroth

"CaveLamb" wrote in message
m...
We have a winner, folks!

212 lines




We have a loser, folks! A net nanny loser.


Wilbur Hubbard

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Mar 2011 16:02:48 -0700, Jessica B
wrote:
snip


Ok... so if you have boat that'll go 10 mph and the reverse tide is
pulling you at 5 mph vs. you have a boat that'll only go 5 mph....

You are still looking at speeds in excess of what the "normal"
cruising boat is capable of sustaining for any cruise.


No Jessica is NOT. For example, my fast, blue water yacht, "Cut the Mustard"
made a passage from Mobile Bay to Egmont Key (Tampa Bay). The time from sea
buoy to sea buoy was 36 hours. The distance was 300 miles.

300 divided by 36 = 8.3 mph average! The LWL of my fine yacht is 22 feet.
Theoretical hull speed is only about seven knots. But, as you can see, the
theory doesn't always describe fact. So, Jessica is not talking speeds in
excess of normal. If my small yacht can average 8.3mph then imagine the
speeds a fast sailing yacht with a LWL of forty feet could average.

Now, Bruce, if you had ever sailed a real fast cruising boat and not that
big fat rotten old tub you live at the dock in you might have gotten around
the world in half the time it took you just to get to Thailand.


Wilbur Hubbard

"Bob" wrote in message
...
OIC... well, I guess a really small boat going fast or slow wouldn't
be as safe as a bigger boat in bad weather?


Dear Jessibur B

Your a woman think of it in terms of a cock; really small going fast
or bigger and faster. What has your experince been my dear?

Robert Pennington Rexroth





Jessica thinks that men who talk about cock size are not very evolved. I
have to agree with her.

Take a hike, Neanderthal!


Wilbur Hubbard

"Jessica B" wrote in message
...
snip

OIC... well, I guess a really small boat going fast or slow wouldn't
be as safe as a bigger boat in bad weather?

Depends on the seaworthiness of the boat. Any size boat can be seaworthy as
long as it is built stoutly and has a crew that knows how to handle her in a
blow. A ships life boat is a good example. The ship founders in a storm and
the crew takes to the life boats which are very small in comparison and
expects to survive the storm conditions in them. Sometimes small is better.

snip

I believe you. I just thought this was about sailing not using an
engine. What about on a slightly longer trip.. wouldn't you want to
use sail power as much as you can, so you don't run out?


One would think so, but . . .

Most of the people posting here NEVER sailed a boat that didn't have an
engine. An engine on a sailboat is supposed to be an auxiliary which means a
secondary means of power. Sadly, most of the Rubes here run their diesels
even when the sails are up. And should the wind die and they can't do hull
speed, they 'supplement' the sails with the diesel. It's shameful! Why don't
people like that just admit to themselves that they are not interested in
sailing and just sell the poor sailboat to somebody who would appreciate it
for what it was designed to do and buy a motorboat such as a trawler?


Wilbur Hubbard

On Mar 17, 10:11*am, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
"Bob" wrote in message

...

OIC... well, I guess a really small boat going fast or slow wouldn't
be as safe as a bigger boat in bad weather?

Dear Jessibur B
Your a woman think of it in terms of a cock; really small going fast
or bigger and faster. What has your experince been my dear?
Robert Pennington Rexroth

Jessica thinks that men who talk about cock size are not very evolved. I
have to agree with her.
Take a hike, Neanderthal!
Wilbur Hubbard



Dear Wilbur,

Your own insecurity about penis size is reflected in Jessibur/Willica
personona.
The thing many men dont want to know about is what women really thinnk
when it comes to cock size. Size DOES matter to a woman its just that
many woman will only admit it in very hushed conversations while
others, more confident and disclosive, will openly declair that a big
dick is a VERY interesting thing to contemplate...

Jessica apears to be a confident capable character.... therefore she
would be very open to a big cock. But there are regional valuse that
prohibit proper ladies from discussion such matters in an open
forum,,,,, butwhen be hind closed doors with a trusted girlfriend the
subtle cues of interest are obvious to those who care to take time and
hear.

My dear will bur, writing for a characte is a very dificult task
requiring a significan writing skills. A skills you are still
developing. The author must truely "become" the other person and that
is near impossible for you... Why? becaure you are an ill educated,
old white typical conservative male. Its not in your nature and you
lack the skills to actually want to learn about someone else. in other
words you can not walk a mile, let alone a few feet, in another
persons (notice i didnot use MAN'S) shoes. Christ man.... just look
what youve been doing here for so many years.... ranting venting
spewing, in an effort to show case your maritime knowledge BUT seldom
do I see any efort on your part to ask questions, seek information,
use those communication skills necessary to understand and learn from
another person. My dear sir yuo will never have a healty relationship
with another person because it is all about Willbur.

I emagin you were a single child maybe you had siblings but they were
much older than you or you were the "golden child" the spoiled
favorite. You were raised with a sense that you could do what you
wanted and that you were always right. You were also most likly one of
those bright nurdy kids in grade school. Smart but not popular and
when you graduated fro HS didnt attend college or if you did never
finished. That is why you are such a verbos know-it-all here..... THis
is your stage to scream: I AM WILLBUR! I AM SMARTER THAN YOU! Yup, u
got lots of frustration willbur. It must be a terible feeling
beleiving you are smarter thatn everyone else but no way to prove it
and no one to listen............................... except here


But Ill listen Willbur
Tell me how bad it feels...............

"Bob" wrote in message
...
On Mar 17, 10:11 am, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
"Bob" wrote in message

...

OIC... well, I guess a really small boat going fast or slow wouldn't
be as safe as a bigger boat in bad weather?

Dear Jessibur B
Your a woman think of it in terms of a cock; really small going fast
or bigger and faster. What has your experince been my dear?
Robert Pennington Rexroth

Jessica thinks that men who talk about cock size are not very evolved. I
have to agree with her.
Take a hike, Neanderthal!
Wilbur Hubbard



:: Dear Wilbur,
::
:: Your own insecurity about penis size is reflected in Jessibur/Willica
:: personona.
:: The thing many men dont want to know about is what women really thinnk
:: when it comes to cock size. Size DOES matter to a woman its just that
:: many woman will only admit it in very hushed conversations while
:: others, more confident and disclosive, will openly declair that a big
:: dick is a VERY interesting thing to contemplate...


What an idiot you are Bob! You're treating Jessica like she's some kind of
dumb bimbo and that's the very thing she hates the most. Get a clue. Pay
particular attention to the part not wanting to meet airheads. LOL!

From Jessica's MySpace page:

About me:
Single, White, Female, smart, sexy... Did I mention smart?

Who I'd like to meet:
No, I don't want to meet you if you're a muscle boy, an airhead, or you just
want to get laid. I'd like to meet someone who's polite, nice looking,
funny. Say something funny, and at least you'll get my attention instead of
a block. I'm still waiting for one actually funny or intelligent message...
so far, it's "you're cute" (so?) or "wassup?" (that's all you have to say?)
Where are the decent guys???

General
Guys (no I don't want to see your penis). Things that are important!
Reading! Being on the beach with a great book!

Music
Classic rock, Class jazz, Classic classical

Movies
You're not going to like it... I like old movies. Casablanca, The Maltese
Falcon, anything Bogart.

Television
Don't watch much...


:: Jessica apears to be a confident capable character.... therefore she
:: would be very open to a big cock. But there are regional valuse that
:: prohibit proper ladies from discussion such matters in an open
:: forum,,,,, but when behind closed doors with a trusted girlfriend the
:: subtle cues of interest are obvious to those who care to take time and
:: hear.

Read the part where she says she's smart (twice). She's way out of your
league, dummy!


:: My dear will bur, writing for a characte is a very dificult task
:: requiring a significan writing skills. A skills you are still
:: developing. The author must truely "become" the other person and that
:: is near impossible for you... Why? becaure you are an ill educated,
:: old white typical conservative male. Its not in your nature and you
:: lack the skills to actually want to learn about someone else. in other
:: words you can not walk a mile, let alone a few feet, in another
:: persons (notice i didnot use MAN'S) shoes. Christ man.... just look
:: what youve been doing here for so many years.... ranting venting
:: spewing, in an effort to show case your maritime knowledge BUT seldom
:: do I see any efort on your part to ask questions, seek information,
:: use those communication skills necessary to understand and learn from
:: another person. My dear sir yuo will never have a healty relationship
:: with another person because it is all about Willbur.

Says the moron who is too dumb to understand that Jessica B is a real girl,
not some sock puppet of mine. As for my seeking information and asking
quesions about sailing, I'll do that if and when somebody shows up around
here who is more experienced and knowlegeable - which will be a long time
coming. I am more in my element teaching than asking questions. Somebody has
got to push back all this liberal, feel good crap that has resulted in a
slovenly and irresponsible attitude toward sailing.

:: I emagin you were a single child maybe you had siblings but they were
:: much older than you or you were the "golden child" the spoiled
:: favorite. You were raised with a sense that you could do what you
:: wanted and that you were always right. You were also most likly one of
:: those bright nurdy kids in grade school. Smart but not popular and
:: when you graduated fro HS didnt attend college or if you did never
:: finished. That is why you are such a verbos know-it-all here..... THis
:: is your stage to scream: I AM WILLBUR! I AM SMARTER THAN YOU! Yup, u
:: got lots of frustration willbur. It must be a terible feeling
:: beleiving you are smarter thatn everyone else but no way to prove it
:: and no one to listen............................... except here
::


LOL! Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong. Boy, are you dumb. Did it ever occur to
you that it is your stupidity that makes others who are intelligent appear
to "know it all?"



Wilbur Hubbard