"Gogarty" wrote in message
...
What has always astonished me is that evry dinky little motor boat of 16
feet or more has a windlass as standard equipment while sailboats as
large as over 40 feet do not. Our boat is 37'. I installed a windless.
Best $2,000 I ever spent on the boat.




There is ONE good thing that can be said about windlasses. They encourage
adequately-sized anchors for the boat in question.

Too often I have seen forty-footers anchoring up with a 25 pound imitation
Danforth or cheap imitation plow of similar weight or, worse yet, one of
those ten-pound aluminum anchors. Too often have I seen them dragging if the
wind blows more than 20 knots.

Since weight becomes less of a factor when a windlass is used, I notice how
properly-sized anchors for the size of the boat are more often in evidence
to the benefit of all concerned.

Wilbur Hubbard

On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 11:38:52 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Waldo" wrote in message
eb.com...
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
OK, I have not hauled my anchor in the last 6 months but then it was
not too hard (28' 8000lb boat). Am I missing something? Does hauling
the anchor (slowly) get that much harder as one gets older (I am 55).
Generally, I haul her in slowly allowing the boats momentum to do most
of the work until the rode is vertical. That is when it requires a
bit of pull. I also use 1/2" nylon rode with 30' of chain so I am not
hauling all chain.
Does it get that much harder with a larger boat?
In place of a windlass, why not mount an old manual winch on the bow
and use it to help haul it in?



If you find yourself actually needing an anchor windlass then it should
tell you that what you really need is a smaller boat with smaller ground
tackle. Or, you might need to examine your technique. If you can't brute
force something perhaps you can finesse it - like using the displacement
of your hull to break the anchor free or reducing the chain length or
using the (heaven forbid) the auxiliary. Just a thought.


Wilbur Hubbard


A windlass is standard equipment on all serious boats, but as you say, a
day sailor like yours can make do without one.



Windlass = big electrical consumption = big motor with big alternator or =
big, stand-alone generator = big wiring = big battery bank = big weight =
big expense = big complications = big nuisance = big headache, etc. Is that
what sailing is supposed to be all about?

Waldo, the biggest part of the discussion here concerns aging sailors. There
comes a time when we MUST recognize the limitations that age imposes upon
us. In the case of ground tackle, the limitations are mostly due to a
reduced capacity in the aged to handle heavy weights. Sure, a windlass can
substitute but what happens when the windlass fails? Then the aged sailor is
stuck with no viable options often in dangerous situations. Would it not be
better to avoid danger than ask for it?

That's exactly what I was thinking... what happens if it fails...
mechanical and electrical things fail all the time, sometimes because
of your own stupidity (like, ummm... running out of gas) or because
there's a flaw or it wears out. What if something gets jammed in it? I
don't really think this is so much an age thing as it is a brains
thing. I know some pretty tough people in their 60's and 70's.


Would it not be wise for aged sailors to consider downsizing? Is it not more
gratifying to sail something one can still handle instead of being at the
mercy of systems that often fail at the worst possible times?

Just a thought. This bigger is better attitude is just plain stupid.

I think if everyone downsized a little bit, this would be a better
place to live. Do we really need all those SUVs on the road??

On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 11:55:47 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Mar 7, 11:38 am, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
"Waldo" wrote in message

b.com...



"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
tanews.com...
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
OK, I have not hauled my anchor in the last 6 months but then it was
not too hard (28' 8000lb boat). Am I missing something? Does hauling
the anchor (slowly) get that much harder as one gets older (I am 55).
Generally, I haul her in slowly allowing the boats momentum to do most
of the work until the rode is vertical. That is when it requires a
bit of pull. I also use 1/2" nylon rode with 30' of chain so I am not
hauling all chain.
Does it get that much harder with a larger boat?
In place of a windlass, why not mount an old manual winch on the bow
and use it to help haul it in?

If you find yourself actually needing an anchor windlass then it should
tell you that what you really need is a smaller boat with smaller
ground
tackle. Or, you might need to examine your technique. If you can't
brute
force something perhaps you can finesse it - like using the
displacement
of your hull to break the anchor free or reducing the chain length or
using the (heaven forbid) the auxiliary. Just a thought.

Wilbur Hubbard

A windlass is standard equipment on all serious boats, but as you say, a
day sailor like yours can make do without one.

Windlass = big electrical consumption = big motor with big alternator or =
big, stand-alone generator = big wiring = big battery bank = big weight =
big expense = big complications = big nuisance = big headache, etc. Is
that
what sailing is supposed to be all about?

Waldo, the biggest part of the discussion here concerns aging sailors.
There
comes a time when we MUST recognize the limitations that age imposes upon
us. In the case of ground tackle, the limitations are mostly due to a
reduced capacity in the aged to handle heavy weights. Sure, a windlass can
substitute but what happens when the windlass fails? Then the aged sailor
is
stuck with no viable options often in dangerous situations. Would it not
be
better to avoid danger than ask for it?

Would it not be wise for aged sailors to consider downsizing? Is it not
more
gratifying to sail something one can still handle instead of being at the
mercy of systems that often fail at the worst possible times?

Just a thought. This bigger is better attitude is just plain stupid.

:: My 28' S2 is a day sailer? Then how on earth did I manage to sail so
:: much on overnight passages?
::



Waldo is a nut and an agitator! He's been on the rag since Jessica B gave
him his comeuppance.



LOL!!

On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 11:00:01 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
OK, I have not hauled my anchor in the last 6 months but then it was
not too hard (28' 8000lb boat). Am I missing something? Does hauling
the anchor (slowly) get that much harder as one gets older (I am 55).
Generally, I haul her in slowly allowing the boats momentum to do most
of the work until the rode is vertical. That is when it requires a
bit of pull. I also use 1/2" nylon rode with 30' of chain so I am not
hauling all chain.
Does it get that much harder with a larger boat?
In place of a windlass, why not mount an old manual winch on the bow
and use it to help haul it in?



If you find yourself actually needing an anchor windlass then it should tell
you that what you really need is a smaller boat with smaller ground tackle.
Or, you might need to examine your technique. If you can't brute force
something perhaps you can finesse it - like using the displacement of your
hull to break the anchor free or reducing the chain length or using the
(heaven forbid) the auxiliary. Just a thought.


Wilbur Hubbard


There speaks the man with the tiny boat. Exhibiting both his envy of
his betters and his stupidity.

Cheers,

Bruce

On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 11:38:52 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Waldo" wrote in message
eb.com...
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
OK, I have not hauled my anchor in the last 6 months but then it was
not too hard (28' 8000lb boat). Am I missing something? Does hauling
the anchor (slowly) get that much harder as one gets older (I am 55).
Generally, I haul her in slowly allowing the boats momentum to do most
of the work until the rode is vertical. That is when it requires a
bit of pull. I also use 1/2" nylon rode with 30' of chain so I am not
hauling all chain.
Does it get that much harder with a larger boat?
In place of a windlass, why not mount an old manual winch on the bow
and use it to help haul it in?



If you find yourself actually needing an anchor windlass then it should
tell you that what you really need is a smaller boat with smaller ground
tackle. Or, you might need to examine your technique. If you can't brute
force something perhaps you can finesse it - like using the displacement
of your hull to break the anchor free or reducing the chain length or
using the (heaven forbid) the auxiliary. Just a thought.


Wilbur Hubbard


A windlass is standard equipment on all serious boats, but as you say, a
day sailor like yours can make do without one.



Windlass = big electrical consumption = big motor with big alternator or =
big, stand-alone generator = big wiring = big battery bank = big weight =
big expense = big complications = big nuisance = big headache, etc. Is that
what sailing is supposed to be all about?

Waldo, the biggest part of the discussion here concerns aging sailors. There
comes a time when we MUST recognize the limitations that age imposes upon
us. In the case of ground tackle, the limitations are mostly due to a
reduced capacity in the aged to handle heavy weights. Sure, a windlass can
substitute but what happens when the windlass fails? Then the aged sailor is
stuck with no viable options often in dangerous situations. Would it not be
better to avoid danger than ask for it?

Would it not be wise for aged sailors to consider downsizing? Is it not more
gratifying to sail something one can still handle instead of being at the
mercy of systems that often fail at the worst possible times?

Just a thought. This bigger is better attitude is just plain stupid.


Wilbur Hubbard


Willie-boy, I keep telling you and telling you that you exhibit your
lack of knowledge every time you open your mouth. My mate, the
Australian, is 76 years old and sails a 55 ft Ferro boat with a
mechanical anchor windless and gets along quite well single handing
it.

Of course, he IS a sailor, not a wantabe.
Cheers,

Bruce

On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 08:50:36 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

On Mar 7, 11:38*am, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
"Waldo" wrote in message

b.com...



"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
tanews.com...
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
OK, I have not hauled my anchor in the last 6 months but then it was
not too hard (28' 8000lb boat). *Am I missing something? *Does hauling
the anchor (slowly) get that much harder as one gets older (I am 55).
Generally, I haul her in slowly allowing the boats momentum to do most
of the work until the rode is vertical. *That is when it requires a
bit of pull. *I also use 1/2" nylon rode with 30' of chain so I am not
hauling all chain.
Does it get that much harder with a larger boat?
In place of a windlass, why not mount an old manual winch on the bow
and use it to help haul it in?

If you find yourself actually needing an anchor windlass then it should
tell you that what you really need is a smaller boat with smaller ground
tackle. Or, you might need to examine your technique. If you can't brute
force something perhaps you can finesse it - like using the displacement
of your hull to break the anchor free or reducing the chain length or
using the (heaven forbid) the auxiliary. Just a thought.

Wilbur Hubbard

A windlass is standard equipment on all serious boats, but as you say, a
day sailor like yours can make do without one.

Windlass = big electrical consumption = big motor with big alternator or =
big, stand-alone generator = big wiring = big battery bank = big weight =
big expense = big complications = big nuisance = big headache, etc. Is that
what sailing is supposed to be all about?

Waldo, the biggest part of the discussion here concerns aging sailors. There
comes a time when we MUST recognize the limitations that age imposes upon
us. In the case of ground tackle, the limitations are mostly due to a
reduced capacity in the aged to handle heavy weights. Sure, a windlass can
substitute but what happens when the windlass fails? Then the aged sailor is
stuck with no viable options often in dangerous situations. Would it not be
better to avoid danger than ask for it?

Would it not be wise for aged sailors to consider downsizing? Is it not more
gratifying to sail something one can still handle instead of being at the
mercy of systems that often fail at the worst possible times?

Just a thought. This bigger is better attitude is just plain stupid.

Wilbur Hubbard

My 28' S2 is a day sailer? Then how on earth did I manage to sail so
much on overnight passages?

Probably, unlike some, you just go ahead and do it..... not sit at
home and talk about it :-)

By the way, I met a bloke in Singapore that bought a Cornish Crabber
and had it shipped from England to Singapore and then set out for
Bangkok never having sailed a boat before.

A year or so later I saw the boat in a marina near the mouth of the
Chao Phaya river and asked the Harbor Master about it and he said the
guy had sailed in one day, with his wife, about three months after he
left Singapore. No electrics, no fridge, no anchor winch, no compass,
no charts, no sextant. Just a guy and his wife and a one burner kero
stove.


Cheers,

Bruce

On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 12:36:54 -0500, Gogarty
wrote:

In article m,
says...

(Snip)


A windlass is standard equipment on all serious boats, but as you say, a day
sailor like yours can make do without one.

No. It's not. Walk through a marina one day and look at who has a standard
issue windlass and who has a retrofit if any at all. The motor boats all have
windlasses. The sailboats are mostly retrofit.

As a general statement I'm not sure that you are correct. I can walk
through "my" marina and note that every sailboat, other then a couple
of day-sailors, has an anchor winch mounted on it's nose although I
have no way of knowing how many were fitted after purchasing the boat.

Our boat is 37 feet. Came with a deck anchor locker and no windlass and no
obvious way to install one. But we did it. Our ground tackle is 150 feet chain
spliced to 250 feet of rope and a 35 lb Delta. We tend to stay put when we
anchor. I gave up manhandling the rode years ago.
Cheers,

Bruce

On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 19:52:41 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote:

OK, I have not hauled my anchor in the last 6 months but then it was
not too hard (28' 8000lb boat). Am I missing something? Does hauling
the anchor (slowly) get that much harder as one gets older (I am 55).
Generally, I haul her in slowly allowing the boats momentum to do most
of the work until the rode is vertical. That is when it requires a
bit of pull. I also use 1/2" nylon rode with 30' of chain so I am not
hauling all chain.
Does it get that much harder with a larger boat?
In place of a windlass, why not mount an old manual winch on the bow
and use it to help haul it in?

Somewhere around 35 to 40 ft of boat length the weight of a proper
cruising anchor and chain gets to be heavier than most people want to
deal with. Serious cruising boats in that size range will typically
have a 40 to 50 lb anchor and a mostly chain rode. Ideally the
windlass will be able to handle both chain and rope but at the very
least, chain.

On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 12:36:37 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

There is ONE good thing that can be said about windlasses. They encourage
adequately-sized anchors for the boat in question.

Too often I have seen forty-footers anchoring up with a 25 pound imitation
Danforth or cheap imitation plow of similar weight or, worse yet, one of
those ten-pound aluminum anchors. Too often have I seen them dragging if the
wind blows more than 20 knots.

Since weight becomes less of a factor when a windlass is used, I notice how
properly-sized anchors for the size of the boat are more often in evidence
to the benefit of all concerned.


Those are all excellent points.

On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 11:38:52 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

Windlass = big electrical consumption = big motor with big alternator or =
big, stand-alone generator = big wiring = big battery bank = big weight =
big expense = big complications = big nuisance = big headache, etc. Is that
what sailing is supposed to be all about?


No - a windlass is not really a big electrical load, although it does
need significant current when actually operating.

My windlass (31 ft power boat) draws about 60 amps, and will run for
about three minutes to raise the anchor - that's only 3 ampere-hours.
Of course, the battery must be large enough to deliver 60 amps without
much voltage drop, but the 3 AH used will be a fairly small portion of
the total daily electrical use.

--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca