On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 07:20:53 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:47:56 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:26:47 -0400, Ernie wrote:

While you're on the subject of ecology Wilbur, would you mind telling us
why you think dumping your pee and turds into coastal waters is OK.


I believe he has a 2 cycle outboard also, talk about oil in the water.



The Tohatsu 6HP is a four-stroke motor and meets Ultra Low emission
standards.

Not only that, but it is rarely used - unlike your diesel boat which uses
the engine every time it gets underway. My sailing yacht moves about 98% of
the time under sail. Your diesel boat moves 100% of the time under the
pollution-making diesel. You should be ashamed of yourself.

And, probably even when you're not underway, you're running a diesel powered
generator. So, in effect, you pollute 24/7 when you're out cruising.

So, stop trying to change the subject. Just admit your irresponsible and
selfish attitude concerning your willingness to pollute the very air we
breathe just because you honestly feel your recreation is more important
than our health.


Wilbur Hubbard


Ah Willie-boy but you are rationalizing your need for a motor, aren't
you. A famous (armchair) sailor like you admitting that he needs a
motor. I'm ashamed of you.

Better read another book to teach you how to sail without a motor and
then you can be 100%.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

I didn't see him rationalizing anything like that. He said he uses it
rarely and appropriately. How is that a rationalization?

Jessica B wrote:
On Wed, 16 Mar 2011 18:50:24 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

We have a winner, folks!

212 lines

I have no idea what this means....


Nothing really.

Just a lot of bandwidth consumed on tiny farts...

--

Richard Lamb

Jessica B wrote:

Hmmm... well, I looked up theoretical boat speed... 1.34 x the root of
LWL. But, I read that when the boat leans (heels) then the LWL would
get longer, so the theoretical speed would go up right? Also, what
about the water moving. If it's going in the same direction, then that
would decrease the time you spend traveling.



But how MUCH longer does the waterline get?
Seldom more than a few inches at most.

As for the other, it's called current.
And if you are going against it, slower than the current is running,
you go backwards...
What fun, huh?



--

Richard Lamb

"Jessica B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Mar 2011 18:50:24 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

We have a winner, folks!

212 lines

I have no idea what this means....



He's whining about your not trimming outdated and irrelevant material from
your posts. That's why I called him a net nanny.

Wilbur Hubbard

"Jessica B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:07:57 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 16 Mar 2011 16:02:48 -0700, Jessica B
wrote:
snip


Ok... so if you have boat that'll go 10 mph and the reverse tide is
pulling you at 5 mph vs. you have a boat that'll only go 5 mph....

You are still looking at speeds in excess of what the "normal"
cruising boat is capable of sustaining for any cruise.


No Jessica is NOT. For example, my fast, blue water yacht, "Cut the
Mustard"
made a passage from Mobile Bay to Egmont Key (Tampa Bay). The time from
sea
buoy to sea buoy was 36 hours. The distance was 300 miles.

300 divided by 36 = 8.3 mph average! The LWL of my fine yacht is 22 feet.
Theoretical hull speed is only about seven knots. But, as you can see, the
theory doesn't always describe fact. So, Jessica is not talking speeds in
excess of normal. If my small yacht can average 8.3mph then imagine the
speeds a fast sailing yacht with a LWL of forty feet could average.

Now, Bruce, if you had ever sailed a real fast cruising boat and not that
big fat rotten old tub you live at the dock in you might have gotten
around
the world in half the time it took you just to get to Thailand.


Wilbur Hubbard


Hmmm... well, I looked up theoretical boat speed... 1.34 x the root of
LWL. But, I read that when the boat leans (heels) then the LWL would
get longer, so the theoretical speed would go up right? Also, what
about the water moving. If it's going in the same direction, then that
would decrease the time you spend traveling.


Ding, ding, ding!! You are correct, Jessica B (I guess the B stands for
'Brilliant'. But, it won't go up much as the multiplier is the square root
of the extra distance.

And, yes, currents can and do make a significant difference. Consider a
sailboat with a theoretical hull speed of five knots sailing north in the
axis of the Gulf Stream. Let's say it has a fair wind and is doing five
knots through the water. Now, the current in the axis sets north about 3-4
knots so that boat sailing north could well have a speed over the ground of
8-9 knots and if this keeps up for 24 hours the benefit of the current is
very apparent. So, unlike the motor heads who just plow through the water.
willy-nilly, full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes, ignoring the affects
of wind and current, a sailboat captain must be more aware and more
intelligent of all factors affecting course made good.

Wilbur Hubbard

"Jessica B" wrote in message
...
trimmed all of Bruce's gibberish

I can't imagine that having a good boat and proceeding at as fast as
possible to avoid bad weather would somehow be more dangerous.

Sorry, but I just don't understand the logic.


You don't understand it because it's ignorance that resides behind Bruce's
misconceptions. It's the old justification those who sail slowcoaches use so
they don't become upset at how they bought the wrong boat that is actually
less safe because it won't get out of its own way. While a fast boat like
mine is safe in a protected harbor a slowcoach like Bruce's will be in the
teeth of a storm and could well founder.

Wilbur Hubbard

"Jessica B" wrote in message
...
snip

The kind of language he used would be grounds for an immediate block
on myspace.


And, an immediate wash out of his mouth with a bar of soap if I ever got my
hands on the little boy. ;-)

Wilbur Hubbard

"Jessica B" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Mar 2011 07:20:53 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:47:56 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:26:47 -0400, Ernie wrote:

While you're on the subject of ecology Wilbur, would you mind telling
us
why you think dumping your pee and turds into coastal waters is OK.


I believe he has a 2 cycle outboard also, talk about oil in the water.



The Tohatsu 6HP is a four-stroke motor and meets Ultra Low emission
standards.

Not only that, but it is rarely used - unlike your diesel boat which uses
the engine every time it gets underway. My sailing yacht moves about 98%
of
the time under sail. Your diesel boat moves 100% of the time under the
pollution-making diesel. You should be ashamed of yourself.

And, probably even when you're not underway, you're running a diesel
powered
generator. So, in effect, you pollute 24/7 when you're out cruising.

So, stop trying to change the subject. Just admit your irresponsible and
selfish attitude concerning your willingness to pollute the very air we
breathe just because you honestly feel your recreation is more important
than our health.


Wilbur Hubbard


Ah Willie-boy but you are rationalizing your need for a motor, aren't
you. A famous (armchair) sailor like you admitting that he needs a
motor. I'm ashamed of you.

Better read another book to teach you how to sail without a motor and
then you can be 100%.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

I didn't see him rationalizing anything like that. He said he uses it
rarely and appropriately. How is that a rationalization?



Pssst! Bruce is clearly delusional. Either that, or he smokes a lot of those
excellent Thai sticks.

Wilbur Hubbard

"Jessica B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:19:55 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 19:38:06 -0700, Mark Borgerson
wrote:

However, part of the problem in that conversion is that you can
get a 36' sailboat in decent condition for about half the cost
of a 36' trawler.

Considering that the trawler probably has more than twice as much
livable space and a lot more comfortable, not such a bad deal. :-)




It's a bad deal for the environment as marine diesel engines are notorious
for the huge amounts of air pollution they spew. And, they drip oil and
fuel
and foul the bilges which foul bilge water and fuel dregs are then pumped
into the water.

I never could understand how anybody in their right mind could be
justified
in thinking that their fun takes precedence over folks who wish to breathe
clean air. It's such a me me me, selfish attitude. It reeks of elitism and
hypocrisy.

Really, it's no different than Al Gore flying all over the glove in his
private jet then complaining about how much pollution and CO2 other people
are responsible for.

Yah, right!


Wilbur Hubbard


I don't either... all that smell.. yuk!


Motor-head boaters seem to become immune to their own noise and air
pollution. I guess they smell the exhaust fumes and hear the cacophony so
often and so long that their sense of smell and their hearing modifies so
they can't smell or hear it anymore.

Why else would some of them be so rude as to arrive in an anchorage and
anchor UPWIND of everybody and then run a smelly diesel generator all day
and all night just so they can have plenty of electricity for all the
household crap they have on board. I just wish people like that would STAY
home. What's the use of sailing when you float the farm, so to speak? You
ruin the experience for most of the other travelers and are too selfish to
understand what you're doing?

Take an example a lubber might understand. A lubber goes to a campground in
a State Park and sets up his little tent in the woods and hopes to have a
good time cooking over the campfire, perhaps catching a fish in the stream
and enjoying the ambience. And, along comes a giant motor home that parks
right upwind from his campsite, blocks most of the view, runs a smelly,
noisy generator all night long, plays loud music, has a couple of dogs that
bark all night, throws his trash and cigarette butts all over the place,
empties his holding tank on the ground, disgorges a couple of motorbikes and
blasts them, without mufflers, through the woods around and around for hours
(equivalent to a jet-ski) etc. Would the tent camper want to shoot the
inconsiderate *******? You bet he would. Yet motor boaters and some of the
larger sail boaters seem to think this sort of crap is cool and other
boaters will envy them and enjoy their presence. Freaking LUNATICS!

Wilbur Hubbard

"Jessica B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:19:33 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Jessica B" wrote in message
. ..
snip

OIC... well, I guess a really small boat going fast or slow wouldn't
be as safe as a bigger boat in bad weather?

Depends on the seaworthiness of the boat. Any size boat can be seaworthy
as
long as it is built stoutly and has a crew that knows how to handle her in
a
blow. A ships life boat is a good example. The ship founders in a storm
and
the crew takes to the life boats which are very small in comparison and
expects to survive the storm conditions in them. Sometimes small is
better.

Ok. That makes sense. I read somewhere about big ships breaking up
because the weight of the boat is suspended between waves.


It can happen! Seas that can destroy a ship often succour a disgarded light
bult.



snip

I believe you. I just thought this was about sailing not using an
engine. What about on a slightly longer trip.. wouldn't you want to
use sail power as much as you can, so you don't run out?


One would think so, but . . .

Most of the people posting here NEVER sailed a boat that didn't have an
engine. An engine on a sailboat is supposed to be an auxiliary which means
a
secondary means of power. Sadly, most of the Rubes here run their diesels
even when the sails are up. And should the wind die and they can't do hull
speed, they 'supplement' the sails with the diesel. It's shameful! Why
don't
people like that just admit to themselves that they are not interested in
sailing and just sell the poor sailboat to somebody who would appreciate
it
for what it was designed to do and buy a motorboat such as a trawler?

That's what my friend with the Catalina said... an auxiliary powered
vessel... right when he started the engine!


I've seen way more sailors who use their engine as a crutch in lieu of
learning how to handle their boat under sail. I've even had some of the
Rubes in this very group try to say it's irresponsible to anchor under sail
if there are other boats anchored. They say such nonsense because they never
learned how to anchor under sail and if they tried they would most likely
ram somebody. If they weren't so inept or inexperienced they would discover
that a sailboat has better steering functionality under a balanced sailplan
than under engine power alone.

Wilbur Hubbard