Pony Express wrote:
The thing I don't understand is why our
highschoolers don't like the JY's. They want
420's or FJ's because they're 'faster'. Truth is
that the JY is faster than either of them.



Walt wrote:
The 420 and the FJ are standard collegiate racing boats. The JY is
not. I think that's part of the prejudice, even though as you correctly
state the JY is signifignantly faster than the 420 or the 14-foot sleep
aid known as the Flying Junior.

C'mon, I used to race FJs... the boat was designed as the "Flying
*Dutchman* Junior" and decided to drop the D-word. Back in it's day it
was a relatively fast boat. And to my eye, it's a better looking boat
than the 420 (which looks as though it should have ball claw feet on
each corner).



So, why isn't the JY a college racing boat? Part of it's tradition,
surely, but there's another piece of the puzzle that I just found out a
couple of weeks ago. A lot of college racing is team racing where boat
handling and tactics is more important than boat speed. The problem
with the JY is that it's hard to stop it cold in it's tracks. Now, you
might not think "stopping the boat" is all that important in racing, but
it is at the collegiate level.

I like it. We need a new ad campaign: "Sail the Club 420 and FJ...
they're easy to stop!"

It's a trivial point. If both teams were sailing JYs, then it would
still be equal. Another issue, real but relatively trivial, is that the
JY is not as sensitive to dirty air as either 420 or FJ.

It's also true that college racing emphasizes tactics, but even in a
fast boat, the issue is more boat handling & avoiding tactical errors
than putting on brilliant chessmaster moves. In a faster boat on a
shorter course, the only tactics that are diminished is the importance
of wind shifts. Everything else is still in play, with the added bonus
that teams falling behand can put on a burst of speed and get back in
the hunt... there is never a parade, never a safe lead.

OTOH in slower boats that stop easily, are tricky to get to point high,
don't accelerate well, and are sensitive to dirty air, 90% of the race
is decided at the start. Well OK, 70% decided at the start and 20%
decided in practice drills the month beforehand.

The real issue is that the Johnstones failed utterly at marketing the JY
to collegiate teams. And that's a shame IMHO. The JY has much better
longevity and is far more cost effective. Furthermore the economies of
scale that would kick in if they made a couple thousand of them a year,
instead of a couple hundred, would drop the price significantly.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:
much snippage

I like it. We need a new ad campaign: "Sail the Club 420 and FJ...
they're easy to stop!"

It's a trivial point. If both teams were sailing JYs, then it would
still be equal.

True enough. But you could say the same about whiskey barrels fitted
out with bedsheets and bromsticks...


It's also true that college racing emphasizes tactics, but even in a
fast boat, the issue is more boat handling & avoiding tactical errors
than putting on brilliant chessmaster moves.

Ever done any team racing, Doug? It's a bizarre sport. Very different
than fleet or match racing. For instance, in 3 on 3 team racing if your
team can block two of your opponents boats with one of your boats you're
almost sure to win that heat. There's a lot of "put yourself in front
of your opponent and put on the brakes" in team racing. The ability to
start and stop the boats on a dime makes this game more fun, hence the
preference for the 420 over the JY.


The real issue is that the Johnstones failed utterly at marketing the JY
to collegiate teams. And that's a shame IMHO. The JY has much better
longevity and is far more cost effective. Furthermore the economies of
scale that would kick in if they made a couple thousand of them a year,
instead of a couple hundred, would drop the price significantly.

Well, the JY beongs to Hunter now, so we'll see what they can do with it
marketing wise. There are many things I don't like about the JY, and
many things I do. On balance I think it's a very good choice for a club
or collegiate fleet or for anybody who wants to casually race
one-design.


--
//-Walt
//
//

Walt wrote:
True enough. But you could say the same about whiskey barrels fitted
out with bedsheets and bromsticks...

Aw shucks, now you want to bring Flying Scots into it


Ever done any team racing, Doug? It's a bizarre sport. Very different
than fleet or match racing.

Yes, it's a lot of fun and it *is* very different. It is essential to
thoroughly memorize the "winning combinations" and work together instead
of just concentrating on sailing.


... There's a lot of "put yourself in front
of your opponent and put on the brakes" in team racing. The ability to
start and stop the boats on a dime makes this game more fun, hence the
preference for the 420 over the JY.

There's also a lot of moves where you deliberately foul another boat and
then take a 720. A favorite back when I was doing it was to sail two
opposing boats the wrong side of the mark, which required a good bit of
bumping. Nowadays I think they don't allow contact between the boats
which must change the game.

Anyway, team racing is not all of collegiate racing and putting on the
brakes is not really that big a deal in team racing IMHO. The preference
for 420s and FJs (again MHO) is 1- inertia 2- a means for the big well
established programs to stay on top. Another point is that there is a
JY-15 class, while there is no FJ or 420 class activity in the US.





Well, the JY beongs to Hunter now, so we'll see what they can do with it
marketing wise. There are many things I don't like about the JY, and
many things I do. On balance I think it's a very good choice for a club
or collegiate fleet or for anybody who wants to casually race
one-design.

I doubt Hunter will do much with it, the profit margin isn't big enough.
Although it would be nice. I considered getting a JY-15 instead of the
Johnson 18 and the class seems to be doing OK.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King