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  #51   Report Post  
Flying Tadpole
 
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Default Any Dinghy Sailors Out There?



OzOne wrote:

snip the skills and sensitivity developed in a

dinghy would be less easily learned in a yacht. IMHO


When did your opinion become humble, Oz1?

(Sgd), "Curious"
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  #52   Report Post  
Donal
 
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Default Any Dinghy Sailors Out There?


OzOne wrote in message ...


That may be possible however the skills and sensitivity developed in a
dinghy would be less easily learned in a yacht. IMHO


I think that "sensitivity" hits the nail right on the head.

I did my first dinghy sailing two years ago. In two weeks I learned more
about the wind than in the previous 5 years of sailing a reasonably fast
yacht.

I became very "sensitive" to the visible signs of an approaching gust. I
also became "sensitive" to the fact that I had to bear off in sudden gusts,
instead of heading up.


Regards


Donal
--





  #53   Report Post  
Flying Tadpole
 
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Default Any Dinghy Sailors Out There?



OzOne wrote:

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:51:58 +0930, Flying Tadpole
scribbled thusly:



OzOne wrote:

snip the skills and sensitivity developed in a
dinghy would be less easily learned in a yacht. IMHO


When did your opinion become humble, Oz1?


Last week!

Oz1...of the 3 twins.


Ah. Registered a DNF, did we?
--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
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  #54   Report Post  
Flying Tadpole
 
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Default Any Dinghy Sailors Out There?



OzOne wrote:

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:42:57 +0930, Flying Tadpole
scribbled thusly:

When did your opinion become humble, Oz1?

Last week!


Ah. Registered a DNF, did we?


Bwaaaahahahahahhahaaaa!
Not far off the mark actually.
Stepped back over a decade, closer to two actually, into a class where
I'd been a guru and got my arse well and truly whipped.
I've been consoling myself with the fact that I'd been partying till
the wee small hours that morning and wasn't all that flash...the truth
just isn't bearable


Ozone, the way to do it is this:
1)appear from nowhere in an unknown boat
2)carefully select your races
3)enjoy a brief, meteoric career as a consistent winner
4)disappear from the racing while at the top, leaving no trace
other than a well-populated website
5)if you must still sail on your racing grounds, choose a vessel
so outre that no-one dares challenge you to anything.

That way, you leave behind a residue of fear and wonder, and
don't have young 45yo punks condescendingly muttering "yes, poor
old fella, I seem to remember he was pretty good once", or, "it's
sad, watching the once great scramble trying to retain their lost
youth" or worse, "y'know, those who were around then reckon he
used to be able to party all night and still take out line
honours next day"

I could give further examples if it might be useful for you?
--
Tim & Flying Tadpole
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  #55   Report Post  
Navigator
 
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Default Any Dinghy Sailors Out There?

Well if your winning tactics depend a skill base on the behaviour of a
dinghy they would not be much use in a big boat... The fact is that you
sail a big boat differently than a dinghy. I'd say there are far more
variables involved in racing big boats that are simply not there in
dinghies -not least more complicated crew communications, current/tide
etc and the fact that on a keel boat you don't trim in the same way
(note how Doug thinks no heel is the fastest trim).

I'd suggest the only reason this dinghy myth continues is the old "I've
spent my time cold and wet ('cos I'm poor) and so should you" ethos. I
maintain that if you taught someone to race a keeler for 5-10 years
properly and then matched them in a race with a pure dinghy sailor on a
keelboat the big boat trained will win every time. My view is supported
by the history of the squadron youth MRX training team and why they whip
everyone in the youth worlds. There arec also many round the world
sailors with relatively little dinghy racing experience. Of course in a
dinghy you can learn basics of sail trim but that is also true in big
boats...

Cheers


OzOne wrote:

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:56:52 +1200, Navigator
scribbled thusly:


A frequently stated but nevertheless illogical point.

Cheers

DSK wrote:



Agreed. Even the high performance keel boats cannot possibly duplicate
the responsiveness of small fast racing dinghy. That's probably why all
the world's best racing skippers earned their stripes in one or another
of the fast centerboard classes before moving into the high-dollar
sailing world.




Hmmm, Why illogical?
Unless you imply that if a sailor started sailing in yachts by the
time he was the same age as that at which most sailors move to "the
high-dollar sailing world" from dinghys then he would be as good as
the dinghy sailor..

That may be possible however the skills and sensitivity developed in a
dinghy would be less easily learned in a yacht. IMHO


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.




  #56   Report Post  
Navigator
 
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Default Any Dinghy Sailors Out There?

Perhaps you should have taken lessons?

Cheers

Donal wrote:

OzOne wrote in message ...


That may be possible however the skills and sensitivity developed in a
dinghy would be less easily learned in a yacht. IMHO



I think that "sensitivity" hits the nail right on the head.

I did my first dinghy sailing two years ago. In two weeks I learned more
about the wind than in the previous 5 years of sailing a reasonably fast
yacht.

I became very "sensitive" to the visible signs of an approaching gust. I
also became "sensitive" to the fact that I had to bear off in sudden gusts,
instead of heading up.


Regards


Donal
--






  #57   Report Post  
Navigator
 
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Default Any Dinghy Sailors Out There?

Oz! You forget many racing yachts have adjustable feet. Even our old
Dragon had one.

Cheers

OzOne wrote:

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:34:59 +1200, Navigator
scribbled thusly:


Well if your winning tactics depend a skill base on the behaviour of a
dinghy they would not be much use in a big boat... The fact is that you
sail a big boat differently than a dinghy. I'd say there are far more
variables involved in racing big boats that are simply not there in
dinghies -not least more complicated crew communications, current/tide
etc and the fact that on a keel boat you don't trim in the same way
(note how Doug thinks no heel is the fastest trim).



You've not done much dinghy sailing MC.Top linesailors in both yachts
and dinghy use pretty much the same communication, much is understood
and reflexive. A good trimmer on a yacht will instinctively trim with
very little needing to be said, same as a dinghy.
Spinnaker sets and drops are called just the same and again trimming
is instinctive or requires only a simple command like "bearing/pulling
away" or "heading up"


I'd suggest the only reason this dinghy myth continues is the old "I've
spent my time cold and wet ('cos I'm poor) and so should you" ethos



I hadn't realised you were a snob!
And BTW there is not a huge difference between maintaining a 35' yacht
in top race trim as against an 18' skiff or similar. The purchase
price is a little less for the skiff.
I

maintain that if you taught someone to race a keeler for 5-10 years
properly and then matched them in a race with a pure dinghy sailor on a
keelboat the big boat trained will win every time



Of course, the dinghy guy would require a year or so to adapt, though
I've seen some come from extensive competitive dinghy careers and step
straight onto a yach and perform extremely well.


My view is supported
by the history of the squadron youth MRX training team and why they whip
everyone in the youth worlds.


Your view is distorted.
Those in your training scheme have been selected from the ranks of
dinghys, same as the RSYS scheme.
You don't put green sailors in Elliotts and MRX (a really nice little
boat)


There arec also many round the world
sailors with relatively little dinghy racing experience



And conversely there are many with extensive dinghy racing experience
as there are in AmCup and the rest.
Hell, I've raced against some of the top yach skippers in dinghys at
one time or another.


Of course in a
dinghy you can learn basics of sail trim but that is also true in big
boats...



Quite true, most yachts require more tuning and control that most
dinghys mainly because of size. Some dinghys will have controls never
seen on yachts, mast blocks and rams, and adjustable mast foot so the
guys who move up have to contend with that lack of control and learn
another.




Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.


  #58   Report Post  
Donal
 
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Default Any Dinghy Sailors Out There?


"Navigator" wrote in message
...
Perhaps you should have taken lessons?


I did.

I took RYA Dinghy Sailing One. I learned a lot!


Regards


Donal
--



  #59   Report Post  
Donal
 
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Default Any Dinghy Sailors Out There?


OzOne wrote in message ...

I hadn't realised you were a snob!


Rich *******s complaining about snobs! Whatever next???

This is really a great ng.

Regards



Donal
--



  #60   Report Post  
Lady Pilot
 
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Default Any Dinghy Sailors Out There?


"Navigator" wrote in message
...

Good lord!


You sound just like Bertie, you never used that phrase until he did
repeatedly about a year ago. Even BB picked it up for a couple of months.

Cheers


Now you sound like CJS (Craig).

LP (great insights to a.s.a.)


 
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