MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jeff Morris wrote:

There's a long list of beautiful 26 footers.

Agreed. Here are some of my faves

Trying to find a good picture of the S-boat, which I'd pick over the
Alerion by a slight margin...
http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm
http://www.herreshoff.org/frames/membershipsframe.htm
http://www.herreshoff.org/frames/sitemapframe.htm

wait, here's a pretty good one... check out the tiny spinnaker and the
old fashioned boom vang
www.herreshoff.org/Tops/sboat.html

Then there's this one, which is a masterpiece, plus it's fast plus it's
trailerable... but it sure ain't cheap
http://www.hankhinckley.com/26top.html

Nice one... TransAtlantic capable, too
http://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/i...ke/gallery.htm

Now for something completely different
http://www.geocities.com/Lindenberg26/l26photos.html

I think these boats are pretty, too... maybe not as pretty as a Shields
or an Atlantic or a Dragon, and not as fast as an Etchells, but ther are
proof that it is possible to have a pretty 26' boat
http://www.soling.com/Pictures.asp

Here's a view you rarely see
http://www.ics.uci.edu/~truesdel/ima...n.50.knots.gif

DSK

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

They must be quite expensive. I believe the 26s are $80K new.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
The 38 is on their website. On second thought, I'd rather have that one.

There was one at the AC boat show a few years back.
Simply stunning and getting very little attention against the Catalina and
Hunters. The one I was on had a tiller.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Great Shots! I love the "S" boats. I would have included the Folkboat, but I
thought someone else had already mentioned it. And the Soling was also on my
short list, but without even a cuddy its strictly a daysailor. Beautiful shot
of the Soling in 50 knots. I actually had the experience of sailing one on the
Charles River in 45+ knots (max gust I think was 54). Definitely a handful!





"DSK" wrote in message
.. .


Jeff Morris wrote:

There's a long list of beautiful 26 footers.

Agreed. Here are some of my faves

Trying to find a good picture of the S-boat, which I'd pick over the
Alerion by a slight margin...
http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm
http://www.herreshoff.org/frames/membershipsframe.htm
http://www.herreshoff.org/frames/sitemapframe.htm

wait, here's a pretty good one... check out the tiny spinnaker and the
old fashioned boom vang
www.herreshoff.org/Tops/sboat.html

Then there's this one, which is a masterpiece, plus it's fast plus it's
trailerable... but it sure ain't cheap
http://www.hankhinckley.com/26top.html

Nice one... TransAtlantic capable, too
http://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/i...ke/gallery.htm

Now for something completely different
http://www.geocities.com/Lindenberg26/l26photos.html

I think these boats are pretty, too... maybe not as pretty as a Shields
or an Atlantic or a Dragon, and not as fast as an Etchells, but ther are
proof that it is possible to have a pretty 26' boat
http://www.soling.com/Pictures.asp

Here's a view you rarely see
http://www.ics.uci.edu/~truesdel/ima...n.50.knots.gif

DSK

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

They must be quite expensive. I believe the 26s are $80K new.

I (Think) remember it was around 180 or 190K. It was so damned beautiful, 100%
worth it.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Maybe instead of my next rental house.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com
"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
They must be quite expensive. I believe the 26s are $80K new.

I (Think) remember it was around 180 or 190K. It was so damned beautiful,
100%
worth it.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

$46k for that? I could by a fleet of Seidelmann 30s and start a charter co.
for that amount.

Scotty


"John Cairns" wrote in message
...
Scotty said size/price range. Though similar in size, the basic boat
package
for the Mast(sailaway, trailer, no motor) is almost $46k, which is nowhere
near the price of the 26X, which was priced well under $20k for the
boat/trailer minus motor. IIRC, the 26M was priced well under $20k also.
John Cairns

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
When are you going to answer Scotty's question about what trailerable
boats of
comparable size & price to the old Mac26 sail better & have more room?

Didn't you catch John's post? There IS another boat that does all the
Mac26X
and M and it's a better boat to boot.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jeff Morris wrote:
Great Shots! I love the "S" boats. I would have included the Folkboat, but I
thought someone else had already mentioned it. And the Soling was also on my
short list, but without even a cuddy its strictly a daysailor. Beautiful shot
of the Soling in 50 knots. I actually had the experience of sailing one on the
Charles River in 45+ knots (max gust I think was 54). Definitely a handful!

One of my pet theories is that is a threshold of wind power where any
given boat becomes unmanageable. This occurs when the max righting
moment is just barely enough to hold the rig up against it's own
windage, and there cannot be any useful power developed. In some small
racing classes, this occurs anywhere between 25 and 45+ knots, and boats
vary widely in their behavior at this threshold. Some get balky (the
Lightning at about 35), and some just suddenly go berserk (the 470 at
about 40). Others cross the threshold more smoothly, and simply let you
know that you are less & less in charge.

The Soling seemed to me to be a thoroughbred in this regard. Never
sailed one at 40+ but in the 30s they are still workable, but you have
to think ahead and they let you know that you're flirting with something
BIG. At an Olympic class regatta many moons ago, we took the 470 out on
a day of 45 - 50 knot winds, and the 470 would only go downwind (mostly
flipped). One of the few times I've had to be rescued. A couple of the
Soling guys went out and blasted back and forth, most of them tore sails
and one nearly sunk. There are reports of Solings going down, nowadays I
think they have airbag flotation.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

John Cairns wrote:
"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jim Cate wrote:



John Cairns wrote:


The new boat is probably only slightly less of a pig under sail than
the old
boat, if you want to verify this, I'm sure you'll find at least one Mac
broker that has an M in stock and will be happy to take you out for a
test
sail. I have one of the NE phrf lists, it rates this boat(26X) at 216
which
is probably charitable. You do the math. If it is indeed 20 to 30%

faster

than the old model, what would it's rating be?
John Cairns



John,

I suspect that you don't have much interest in the facts, but the 26X IS
the "old" model. The "new" model is the 26M. In other words, your stats
are either six years out of date or bass-ass-backwards.

Jim

No responses to this note?

Jim


Yes, read the post carefully. I think everyone here knows that the 26M is
the "new" model. I bracket the new, because for all intents and purposes,
this is the same boat as the 26X, regardless of all the clever advertising
blurbs. These are the specs for the 26X, at least 6 years old.
http://old.cruisingworld.com/ssbk/macgr26x.htm

Your note, to which I referred, stated that:

The new boat is probably only slightly less of a pig under sail than the
old boat, if you want to verify this, I'm sure you'll find at least one
Mac broker that has an M in stock and will be happy to take you out for
a test sail. I have one of the NE phrf lists, it rates THIS boat(26X) at
216 which is probably charitable. You do the math. If it is indeed 20 to
30% faster than the old model, what would it's rating be?
John Cairns

From your own note, your new NE phrf list rates THIS BOAT (the 26x) at
216.......... However, the NEW boat is the 26m, not the 26X. Also, the
new boat isn't just the old boat "for all intents and purposes" with
some "subtle changes." In fact, the hull is completely new, an
incorporates a bow section having a deep V design of 15 degrees, as
compared with the flatter, 8-degree hull of the 26X model. Secondly,
the boat incorporates a vertically displaceable dagger board instead of
the old pivotable centerboard. Accordingly, the 5-foot, 16" high
centerboard trunk that extended aft of the pivot point of the
centerboard in the X model is no longer necessary, and is therefore
eliminated, such that the contour of the hull aft of the dagger board
doesn't include the 16" recess or trunk. Other changes include an
additional layer of fiberglass and roving in the lower hull, softer
corners at the transom, etc. The mast is 2' higher than on the X model,
and the ballast is no longer an exclusively water ballast, but instead,
includes 300 lb.. of permanent ballast.

ONCE AGAIN, I'm not saying that these changes have solved all potential
deficiencies in the old models, or that the new boat sails or powers
superbly. But there can be no question that the M model incorporates
major, substantive changes, has an entirely different hull, and is not
the same boat as the previous models. As previously noted, I'm not
asking for acquiescence or agreement, I'm asking for some basic
INTELLECTUAL HONESTY in the discussion. - That would include your
admitting that you were wrong in stating that there are only "cosmetic"
differences between the new M boat and the older models. - A 15-degree
Hull IS NOT the same thing as a substantially flat, 8-degree hull.

As for your suggestion that I find a dealer with the new model in stock
who would be "happy" to take me out for a test sail, I haven't found
one. - Most of them tell me that the new model is in such demand and
scarce supply that they can't even keep one in stock for display. Of
course, I doubt that the owner of the 34-foot Cal I'm also looking at
would let me take that boat for a test sail either. - That's why I
posted my questions on this ng in the first place.

Jim





Now compare and contrast these numbers to the "new" 26M
http://www.macgregorsailboats.com/sa...fications.html

Hmm. Interesting. Roger must be the greatest NA in history if he got boat A
to go faster than boat B simply by making a few subtle design changes to the
underbody. But I digress. You think that it(26M) is a boat worthy of your
serious consideration, why don't you take one out for a test sail and give
us all of the details. I noticed that you never answered MY question, and it
wasn't rhetorical, it was a serious suggestion. And the other question was
serious also. If the (OLD) 26X is rated at 216 and the (NEW) 26M is 20-30%
faster (make it easier, say it's 20% faster) what would it's rating be?
Think carefully before you answer. And no, we won't discuss how fast or
stable or maneuverable it is under power, because, after all, this is a
SAILING newsgroup, if we really concerned about how our boats handled under
power we would own POWERBOATS.

John Cairns

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

This note concerns the issue of intellectual honesty.

As a follow-up to and summary of the many responses generated by this
question, several hundreds of usually negative, usually dogmatic
statements were posted regarding the MacGregor 26M, but none were posted
by anyone who had actually sailed the 26M. Also, as far as I can
determine, none were posted by anyone who had even spoken to someone who
had actually sailed the boat. (Correct me if I missed one.)
Additionally, there was a long string of comments by posters who had
obviousaly confused various previous MacGregor boats with the current
26M (which incorporates major, substantive changes from the previous
models). Additionally, most writers were not willing, even when
corrected by knowledgeable members of the group, to admit that they were
talking about another boat and didn't actually know what the 26M entailed.

In other words, as a summary of this long and convoluted series of
pontifications, few participants had the intellectual honesty to admit
that they really didn't know what the hell they were talking about in
the first place. - Of course, this doesn't meant that the 26M is a great
boat. - But it does say something about the character and (lack of)
intellectual honesty of many who posted under this subject string.

Jim


Jim Cate wrote:


I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the Galveston-Houston
area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or sailed
on the boat. Or, anyone else.

For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have some
advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and doing
some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can therefore
get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
than a fixed keel boat. This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests. Also, in view of the
hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the boat's
ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
islands, would be an obvious advantage. (The 40-foot Valiant, although
a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots under
motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina to
the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
finder.)

OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice. Also,
the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. - It
now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel (which
I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the years.
As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is clearly
much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the video.)
With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat; it
can reportedly plane under sail.

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used 30
- 32-foot boats.

Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring characteristics
of the new 26M would be appreciated.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jim...MacGregor's have a poor reputation. They have made some very bad
boats. Most of us here have experience sailing many different brands of
boats and have been around sailors and sailboats for years and years. Your
analogy about intellectual honesty is bunkum. Fact of the matter is, if a
product gets negative brand recognition because of lack of quality, it will
take 75% more effort to convince the knowledgeable that that company might
then, out of the blue, produce a good product. If you were in the market
for a subcompact car, and you read the history of the Yugo, spoke with
people who had purchased Yugo's, and seen the statistics about their rate of
repair and other problems, would you then include Yugo in the cars you are
planning to test drive? I think not. Time is money, and wating time is
wasting money. Yes, there are flukes...once in a while a company with a bad
reputation comes up with a single good item...Hunter comes to mind
here...but for the most part, Hunter's are crap, and that is based on
comparison of facts. macGregor's , for the most part, are crap. Now quit
wasting everyone's time with your specious arguments and go learn how to
sail.

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

It sounds to me like you're not really listening. Macs have a terrible
reputation. Having seen several of them around, seen them "sail" or
"motor," and talked to a few owners, I wouldn't consider getting any
of them. There are better boats for the same money. Several people
have said basically the same thing over and over.

Are you really that thick?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

This note concerns the issue of intellectual honesty.

As a follow-up to and summary of the many responses generated by this
question, several hundreds of usually negative, usually dogmatic
statements were posted regarding the MacGregor 26M, but none were posted
by anyone who had actually sailed the 26M. Also, as far as I can
determine, none were posted by anyone who had even spoken to someone who
had actually sailed the boat. (Correct me if I missed one.)
Additionally, there was a long string of comments by posters who had
obviousaly confused various previous MacGregor boats with the current
26M (which incorporates major, substantive changes from the previous
models). Additionally, most writers were not willing, even when
corrected by knowledgeable members of the group, to admit that they were
talking about another boat and didn't actually know what the 26M entailed.

In other words, as a summary of this long and convoluted series of
pontifications, few participants had the intellectual honesty to admit
that they really didn't know what the hell they were talking about in
the first place. - Of course, this doesn't meant that the 26M is a great
boat. - But it does say something about the character and (lack of)
intellectual honesty of many who posted under this subject string.

Jim


Jim Cate wrote:


I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the Galveston-Houston
area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or sailed
on the boat. Or, anyone else.

For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have some
advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and doing
some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can therefore
get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
than a fixed keel boat. This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests. Also, in view of the
hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the boat's
ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
islands, would be an obvious advantage. (The 40-foot Valiant, although
a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots under
motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina to
the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
finder.)

OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice. Also,
the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. - It
now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel (which
I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the years.
As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is clearly
much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the video.)
With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat; it
can reportedly plane under sail.

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used 30
- 32-foot boats.

Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring characteristics
of the new 26M would be appreciated.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

jim, buy the Mac and motor it to your heart's content. HOWEVER, you are
forbidden from buying an EPIRB. That would be unethetical on your part and
would doom you to Hell for eternity.



This note concerns the issue of intellectual honesty.

As a follow-up to and summary of the many responses generated by this
question, several hundreds of usually negative, usually dogmatic
statements were posted regarding the MacGregor 26M, but none were posted
by anyone who had actually sailed the 26M. Also, as far as I can
determine, none were posted by anyone who had even spoken to someone who
had actually sailed the boat. (Correct me if I missed one.)
Additionally, there was a long string of comments by posters who had
obviousaly confused various previous MacGregor boats with the current
26M (which incorporates major, substantive changes from the previous
models). Additionally, most writers were not willing, even when
corrected by knowledgeable members of the group, to admit that they were
talking about another boat and didn't actually know what the 26M entailed.

In other words, as a summary of this long and convoluted series of
pontifications, few participants had the intellectual honesty to admit
that they really didn't know what the hell they were talking about in
the first place. - Of course, this doesn't meant that the 26M is a great
boat. - But it does say something about the character and (lack of)
intellectual honesty of many who posted under this subject string.

Jim


Jim Cate wrote:


I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the Galveston-Houston
area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or sailed
on the boat. Or, anyone else.

For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have some
advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and doing
some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can therefore
get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
than a fixed keel boat. This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests. Also, in view of the
hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the boat's
ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
islands, would be an obvious advantage. (The 40-foot Valiant, although
a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots under
motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina to
the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
finder.)

OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice. Also,
the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. - It
now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel (which
I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the years.
As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is clearly
much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the video.)
With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat; it
can reportedly plane under sail.

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used 30
- 32-foot boats.

Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring characteristics
of the new 26M would be appreciated.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

heey, katies. way to go. dead bang on center.

Jim...MacGregor's have a poor reputation. They have made some very bad
boats. Most of us here have experience sailing many different brands of
boats and have been around sailors and sailboats for years and years. Your
analogy about intellectual honesty is bunkum. Fact of the matter is, if a
product gets negative brand recognition because of lack of quality, it will
take 75% more effort to convince the knowledgeable that that company might
then, out of the blue, produce a good product. If you were in the market
for a subcompact car, and you read the history of the Yugo, spoke with
people who had purchased Yugo's, and seen the statistics about their rate of
repair and other problems, would you then include Yugo in the cars you are
planning to test drive? I think not. Time is money, and wating time is
wasting money. Yes, there are flukes...once in a while a company with a bad
reputation comes up with a single good item...Hunter comes to mind
here...but for the most part, Hunter's are crap, and that is based on
comparison of facts. macGregor's , for the most part, are crap. Now quit
wasting everyone's time with your specious arguments and go learn how to
sail.

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jim, this troll is all used up. Move on.


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

This note concerns the issue of intellectual honesty.

As a follow-up to and summary of the many responses generated by this
question, several hundreds of usually negative, usually dogmatic
statements were posted regarding the MacGregor 26M, but none were posted
by anyone who had actually sailed the 26M. Also, as far as I can
determine, none were posted by anyone who had even spoken to someone who
had actually sailed the boat. (Correct me if I missed one.)
Additionally, there was a long string of comments by posters who had
obviousaly confused various previous MacGregor boats with the current
26M (which incorporates major, substantive changes from the previous
models). Additionally, most writers were not willing, even when
corrected by knowledgeable members of the group, to admit that they were
talking about another boat and didn't actually know what the 26M entailed.

In other words, as a summary of this long and convoluted series of
pontifications, few participants had the intellectual honesty to admit
that they really didn't know what the hell they were talking about in
the first place. - Of course, this doesn't meant that the 26M is a great
boat. - But it does say something about the character and (lack of)
intellectual honesty of many who posted under this subject string.

Jim


Jim Cate wrote:


I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the Galveston-Houston
area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or sailed
on the boat. Or, anyone else.

For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have some
advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and doing
some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can therefore
get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
than a fixed keel boat. This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests. Also, in view of the
hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the boat's
ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
islands, would be an obvious advantage. (The 40-foot Valiant, although
a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots under
motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina to
the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
finder.)

OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice. Also,
the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. - It
now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel (which
I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the years.
As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is clearly
much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the video.)
With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat; it
can reportedly plane under sail.

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used 30
- 32-foot boats.

Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring characteristics
of the new 26M would be appreciated.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Scott, you certainly don't have to read or respond to my notes.
It's rather easy to click the down arrow and move on to another topic.

Jim

Scott Vernon wrote:

Jim, this troll is all used up. Move on.


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

This note concerns the issue of intellectual honesty.

As a follow-up to and summary of the many responses generated by this
question, several hundreds of usually negative, usually dogmatic
statements were posted regarding the MacGregor 26M, but none were posted
by anyone who had actually sailed the 26M. Also, as far as I can
determine, none were posted by anyone who had even spoken to someone who
had actually sailed the boat. (Correct me if I missed one.)
Additionally, there was a long string of comments by posters who had
obviousaly confused various previous MacGregor boats with the current
26M (which incorporates major, substantive changes from the previous
models). Additionally, most writers were not willing, even when
corrected by knowledgeable members of the group, to admit that they were
talking about another boat and didn't actually know what the 26M entailed.

In other words, as a summary of this long and convoluted series of
pontifications, few participants had the intellectual honesty to admit
that they really didn't know what the hell they were talking about in
the first place. - Of course, this doesn't meant that the 26M is a great
boat. - But it does say something about the character and (lack of)
intellectual honesty of many who posted under this subject string.

Jim


Jim Cate wrote:


I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the Galveston-Houston
area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or sailed
on the boat. Or, anyone else.

For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have some
advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and doing
some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can therefore
get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
than a fixed keel boat. This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests. Also, in view of the
hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the boat's
ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
islands, would be an obvious advantage. (The 40-foot Valiant, although
a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots under
motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina to
the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
finder.)

OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice. Also,
the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. - It
now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel (which
I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the years.
As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is clearly
much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the video.)
With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat; it
can reportedly plane under sail.

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used 30
- 32-foot boats.

Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring characteristics
of the new 26M would be appreciated.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

katysails wrote:
Jim...MacGregor's have a poor reputation. They have made some very bad
boats. Most of us here have experience sailing many different brands of
boats and have been around sailors and sailboats for years and years. Your
analogy about intellectual honesty is bunkum. Fact of the matter is, if a
product gets negative brand recognition because of lack of quality, it will
take 75% more effort to convince the knowledgeable that that company might
then, out of the blue, produce a good product. If you were in the market
for a subcompact car, and you read the history of the Yugo, spoke with
people who had purchased Yugo's, and seen the statistics about their rate of
repair and other problems, would you then include Yugo in the cars you are
planning to test drive? I think not. Time is money, and wating time is
wasting money. Yes, there are flukes...once in a while a company with a bad
reputation comes up with a single good item...Hunter comes to mind
here...but for the most part, Hunter's are crap, and that is based on
comparison of facts. macGregor's , for the most part, are crap. Now quit
wasting everyone's time with your specious arguments and go learn how to
sail.

Katy, first regarding your comment that I need to go learn to sail, as
previously mentioned, I have sailed a 37-ft O'Day, 40-ft Valiant (weeks
charter), Cal 34, Cat 30 Endeavor 32, etc., etc. I'm seeking to extend
my sailing experience.

Regarding the reputation of the MacGregors, I realize that it isn't the
same type of boat as fixed keel boats such as the Valiant and the O'Day.
However, they entail certain obvious advantages for sailing in bay
areas and with respect to their ability to get to a desired sailing area
quickly, and to return quickly, and to getting through marginal channels
and limited deep water sailing areas such as we have in he Galveston bay
area. My note concerned the new model, in which the hull is
significantly different from previous models, as previously described. I
don't see news reports of hundreds of MacGregor sailors killed or
injured, actually. If someone who has actually sailed the 26M under
differing weather conditions tells me that it has minimal sailing
capability, or that it is likely to fall apart in a force three wind, or
that MacGregor owners are being routinely lost at sea because of defects
in the boat, then that information would be meaningful and relevant. But
so far I haven't seen such a report, and, from speaking with several who
have sailed it, the boat seems to be faster and more responsive and more
stable in chop under power than the previous models.

Whether or not the Valiant is a "better" boat depends on your particular
criteria, however. With respect to safety for coastal cruising, the Mac
seems to have several advantages. - If the lower hull is compromised,
the inner hull remains. If both hulls are compromised, or if the side
hull is penetrated as in a collision, the integrated flotation keeps the
Mac afloat. By contrast, if the hull of the Valiant (or other keep
boats) is compromised, or if the through-hulls leak, or if substantial
water enters the boat for some other reason, the keel of the Valiant
will quickly pull it to the bottom. In this respect, the MacGregor is a
"better" boat. (Galveston-Houston has its share of drunk red-necks
racing around the bays at 60 mph while downing another six-pack.)

Regarding access to good sailing areas, the MacGregor can plane out to
the desired sailing are at around 15-18 knots, whereas the Valiant,
while considered relatively fast, only make around 7-8 knots under
power. So, with respect to convenience, and ability to get to a
preferred sailing area within a given day or weekend, the MacGregor is a
"better" boat. The ability to return to port quickly, ahead of impending
weather, is also a safety factor in the Mac. When we sailed the Valiant,
there were several channels in the Galveston area that weren't clearly
marked and in which we could not maneuver safely at low tide. So, we
had to turn back from a preferred anchorage we were trying to reach. In
contrast, the dagger board of the MacGregor can be raised incrementally
as desired, with a minimum draft of around 18 inches. Again, with
respect to its ability to maneuver in shallow or unmarked channels, or
to anchor in shallow water, or beach on shore to permit grandkids to
play on the sand, the MacGregor is a "better" boat, since the Valiant
must be kept in much deeper water and doesn't have the versatility of
the Mac for such shallow water activities.

I have no doubt that the Valiant has better sailing characteristics,
will point higher, and would be more comfortable in heavy weather. - In
that sense, it is a "better" boat than the MacGregor (although I
understand that the MacGregor can actually plane under sail and may
therefore be faster under sail in some conditions). However, if I can't
get out to the blue water on weekends because of the requisite hours of
motoring time it takes to get from our area to the blue water, then the
fine sailing characteristics of the Valiant wouldn't be of much benefit
to me. (With the exception of being able to talk about it on the
newsgroup.) Under those circumstances, if I could only get out once or
twice a year, it may make more sense to charter a larger boat for
extended cruising when I can time off for a week or so.

Again, an evaluation of the quality of the boat depends on the criteria
used in the evaluation, and how the boat will be used.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

It sounds to me like you're not really listening.


It sounds to me like you're not really listening.

Jim




Macs have a terrible
reputation. Having seen several of them around, seen them "sail" or
"motor," and talked to a few owners, I wouldn't consider getting any
of them. There are better boats for the same money. Several people
have said basically the same thing over and over.

Are you really that thick?

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

JAXAshby wrote:

jim, buy the Mac and motor it to your heart's content. HOWEVER, you are
forbidden from buying an EPIRB. That would be unethetical on your part and
would doom you to Hell for eternity.





Would I be permitted to buy a chart plotter, depth-knot, autosteering,
or VHF?

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

As the NG moderator, I do.

SV

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
Scott, you certainly don't have to read or respond to my notes.
It's rather easy to click the down arrow and move on to another topic.

Jim

Scott Vernon wrote:

Jim, this troll is all used up. Move on.


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

This note concerns the issue of intellectual honesty.

As a follow-up to and summary of the many responses generated by this
question, several hundreds of usually negative, usually dogmatic
statements were posted regarding the MacGregor 26M, but none were posted
by anyone who had actually sailed the 26M. Also, as far as I can
determine, none were posted by anyone who had even spoken to someone who
had actually sailed the boat. (Correct me if I missed one.)
Additionally, there was a long string of comments by posters who had
obviousaly confused various previous MacGregor boats with the current
26M (which incorporates major, substantive changes from the previous
models). Additionally, most writers were not willing, even when
corrected by knowledgeable members of the group, to admit that they were
talking about another boat and didn't actually know what the 26M
entailed.

In other words, as a summary of this long and convoluted series of
pontifications, few participants had the intellectual honesty to admit
that they really didn't know what the hell they were talking about in
the first place. - Of course, this doesn't meant that the 26M is a great
boat. - But it does say something about the character and (lack of)
intellectual honesty of many who posted under this subject string.

Jim


Jim Cate wrote:


I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the Galveston-Houston
area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or sailed
on the boat. Or, anyone else.

For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have some
advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and
doing
some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can therefore
get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
than a fixed keel boat. This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests. Also, in view of the
hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the boat's
ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
islands, would be an obvious advantage. (The 40-foot Valiant, although
a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots
under
motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina
to
the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
finder.)

OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice. Also,
the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. - It
now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel
(which
I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the
years.
As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is clearly
much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the video.)
With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat; it
can reportedly plane under sail.

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the
Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used
30
- 32-foot boats.

Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring characteristics
of the new 26M would be appreciated.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

However, they (mac 26's) entail certain obvious advantages for sailing

not that anyone but you can see.

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

you are
forbidden from buying an EPIRB. That would be unethetical on your part and
would doom you to Hell for eternity.


Would I be permitted to buy a chart plotter, depth-knot, autosteering,
or VHF?


nope.


Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

C'mon Jax, give the pedant a break. I saw a mac motoring out the race
equipped with radar.Gave me pause. Kind of like a mouse crawling up an
elephants leg with rape on its mind.

On 01 Apr 2004 15:52:48 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

you are
forbidden from buying an EPIRB. That would be unethetical on your part and
would doom you to Hell for eternity.


Would I be permitted to buy a chart plotter, depth-knot, autosteering,
or VHF?


nope.


Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Exactly.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
However, they (mac 26's) entail certain obvious advantages for sailing

not that anyone but you can see.

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Ok. Well, I think we're pretty much finished with you. Just about
everyone, including Jax, has tried to be helpful. You're not having
any. And, I guess we'll just have to live with the fact that either you're
not too bright or an asshole who is not too bright.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jonathan Ganz wrote:

It sounds to me like you're not really listening.


It sounds to me like you're not really listening.

Jim




Macs have a terrible
reputation. Having seen several of them around, seen them "sail" or
"motor," and talked to a few owners, I wouldn't consider getting any
of them. There are better boats for the same money. Several people
have said basically the same thing over and over.

Are you really that thick?

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

That's right. The rest of us can just plonk him.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
As the NG moderator, I do.

SV

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
Scott, you certainly don't have to read or respond to my notes.
It's rather easy to click the down arrow and move on to another topic.

Jim

Scott Vernon wrote:

Jim, this troll is all used up. Move on.


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

This note concerns the issue of intellectual honesty.

As a follow-up to and summary of the many responses generated by this
question, several hundreds of usually negative, usually dogmatic
statements were posted regarding the MacGregor 26M, but none were
posted
by anyone who had actually sailed the 26M. Also, as far as I can
determine, none were posted by anyone who had even spoken to someone
who
had actually sailed the boat. (Correct me if I missed one.)
Additionally, there was a long string of comments by posters who had
obviousaly confused various previous MacGregor boats with the current
26M (which incorporates major, substantive changes from the previous
models). Additionally, most writers were not willing, even when
corrected by knowledgeable members of the group, to admit that they
were
talking about another boat and didn't actually know what the 26M
entailed.

In other words, as a summary of this long and convoluted series of
pontifications, few participants had the intellectual honesty to admit
that they really didn't know what the hell they were talking about in
the first place. - Of course, this doesn't meant that the 26M is a
great
boat. - But it does say something about the character and (lack of)
intellectual honesty of many who posted under this subject string.

Jim


Jim Cate wrote:


I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the
Galveston-Houston
area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or
sailed
on the boat. Or, anyone else.

For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have
some
advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and
doing
some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can
therefore
get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
than a fixed keel boat. This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests. Also, in view of the
hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the
boat's
ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
islands, would be an obvious advantage. (The 40-foot Valiant,
although
a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots
under
motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina
to
the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
finder.)

OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice.
Also,
the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. -
It
now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel
(which
I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the
years.
As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is
clearly
much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the
video.)
With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat;
it
can reportedly plane under sail.

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the
Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours
on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used
30
- 32-foot boats.

Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring
characteristics
of the new 26M would be appreciated.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

okay, a radar as long as it is at least 4kw and has a CRT screen rather than an
LCD.

C'mon Jax, give the pedant a break. I saw a mac motoring out the race
equipped with radar.Gave me pause. Kind of like a mouse crawling up an
elephants leg with rape on its mind.

On 01 Apr 2004 15:52:48 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

you are
forbidden from buying an EPIRB. That would be unethetical on your part
and
would doom you to Hell for eternity.


Would I be permitted to buy a chart plotter, depth-knot, autosteering,
or VHF?


nope.


Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

don't forget the sidescan sonar.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
okay, a radar as long as it is at least 4kw and has a CRT screen rather than
an
LCD.

C'mon Jax, give the pedant a break. I saw a mac motoring out the race
equipped with radar.Gave me pause. Kind of like a mouse crawling up an
elephants leg with rape on its mind.

On 01 Apr 2004 15:52:48 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

you are
forbidden from buying an EPIRB. That would be unethetical on your part
and
would doom you to Hell for eternity.


Would I be permitted to buy a chart plotter, depth-knot, autosteering,
or VHF?


nope.


Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


katysails wrote:
Jim...MacGregor's have a poor reputation. They have made some very bad
boats. Most of us here have experience sailing many different brands of
boats and have been around sailors and sailboats for years and years.
Your
analogy about intellectual honesty is bunkum. Fact of the matter is, if
a
product gets negative brand recognition because of lack of quality, it
will
take 75% more effort to convince the knowledgeable that that company
might
then, out of the blue, produce a good product. If you were in the
market
for a subcompact car, and you read the history of the Yugo, spoke with
people who had purchased Yugo's, and seen the statistics about their
rate of
repair and other problems, would you then include Yugo in the cars you
are
planning to test drive? I think not. Time is money, and wating time is
wasting money. Yes, there are flukes...once in a while a company with a
bad
reputation comes up with a single good item...Hunter comes to mind
here...but for the most part, Hunter's are crap, and that is based on
comparison of facts. macGregor's , for the most part, are crap. Now
quit
wasting everyone's time with your specious arguments and go learn how to
sail.

Katy, first regarding your comment that I need to go learn to sail, as
previously mentioned, I have sailed a 37-ft O'Day, 40-ft Valiant (weeks
charter), Cal 34, Cat 30 Endeavor 32, etc., etc. I'm seeking to extend
my sailing experience.

First, I'd like to point out that most of the replies have been genuine
attempts to be helpful.

Second, it doesn't really matter what boat you buy - at least for a few
years. You will probably get enjoyment from simply being "out there".





Regarding the reputation of the MacGregors, I realize that it isn't the
same type of boat as fixed keel boats such as the Valiant and the O'Day.
However, they entail certain obvious advantages for sailing in bay
areas and with respect to their ability to get to a desired sailing area
quickly, and to return quickly, and to getting through marginal channels

This is the heart of the matter.

You seem to want a sailing vessel. However, you also want to keep your
boat about 25 miles from your sailing area. If you really must keep your
boat so far from a sailing ground, then I think that you should tell us why.
Perhaps that will produce different responses from people.




Regards


Donal
--

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jim stated:
Again, an evaluation of the quality of the boat depends on the criteria
used in the evaluation, and how the boat will be used.

So the MacGregor obviously fits OYUR criteria...go buy one, but don't come
whining back here...but then, maybe you're like Horvath with his blind love
of Hunter's....
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

autosteering? Do they make one for the 'x' model. That steering wheel is
like, 14'' dia..

SV


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
okay, a radar as long as it is at least 4kw and has a CRT screen rather
than an
LCD.

C'mon Jax, give the pedant a break. I saw a mac motoring out the race
equipped with radar.Gave me pause. Kind of like a mouse crawling up an
elephants leg with rape on its mind.

On 01 Apr 2004 15:52:48 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

you are
forbidden from buying an EPIRB. That would be unethetical on your
part
and
would doom you to Hell for eternity.


Would I be permitted to buy a chart plotter, depth-knot, autosteering,
or VHF?


nope.


Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Unless it's a mere 'stepping stone'.

SV

"Donal" wrote
Second, it doesn't really matter what boat you buy - at least for a few
years. You will probably get enjoyment from simply being "out there".

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

In the interest of full disclosure, I recently placed an order for one
of the new 26M boats. Having carefully studied all the helpful advice
and unbiased evaluations posted on this and other newsgroups, it became
obvious to me that the Mac 26M was definitely the best choice in the
under $75,000 price range for my intended applications. So, I'm one of
the lucky few who will be able to take delivery of this wonderful new
model in the next few months, since demand far exeeds the supply, and
deliveries are normally several months behind schedule.

Thanks to all for the helpful and educational comments.

Jim

Jim Cate wrote:


I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the Galveston-Houston
area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or sailed
on the boat. Or, anyone else.

For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have some
advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and doing
some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can therefore
get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
than a fixed keel boat. This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests. Also, in view of the
hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the boat's
ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
islands, would be an obvious advantage. (The 40-foot Valiant, although
a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots under
motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina to
the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
finder.)

OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice. Also,
the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. - It
now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel (which
I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the years.
As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is clearly
much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the video.)
With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat; it
can reportedly plane under sail.

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used 30
- 32-foot boats.

Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring characteristics
of the new 26M would be appreciated.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

In our area, some of the many "obvious advantages" include the ability
to get out to good sailing waters, sail for half a day, and return to
port within a few hours. If you can only sail on weekends, that's an
"obvious advantage" over a boat that takes six hours to motor to a good
sailing area, and six hours to motor back.

Jim

JAXAshby wrote:

However, they (mac 26's) entail certain obvious advantages for sailing


not that anyone but you can see.

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Donal wrote:

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


katysails wrote:

Jim...MacGregor's have a poor reputation. They have made some very bad
boats. Most of us here have experience sailing many different brands of
boats and have been around sailors and sailboats for years and years.

Your

analogy about intellectual honesty is bunkum. Fact of the matter is, if

a

product gets negative brand recognition because of lack of quality, it

will

take 75% more effort to convince the knowledgeable that that company

might

then, out of the blue, produce a good product. If you were in the

market

for a subcompact car, and you read the history of the Yugo, spoke with
people who had purchased Yugo's, and seen the statistics about their

rate of

repair and other problems, would you then include Yugo in the cars you

are

planning to test drive? I think not. Time is money, and wating time is
wasting money. Yes, there are flukes...once in a while a company with a

bad

reputation comes up with a single good item...Hunter comes to mind
here...but for the most part, Hunter's are crap, and that is based on
comparison of facts. macGregor's , for the most part, are crap. Now

quit

wasting everyone's time with your specious arguments and go learn how to
sail.


Katy, first regarding your comment that I need to go learn to sail, as
previously mentioned, I have sailed a 37-ft O'Day, 40-ft Valiant (weeks
charter), Cal 34, Cat 30 Endeavor 32, etc., etc. I'm seeking to extend
my sailing experience.


First, I'd like to point out that most of the replies have been genuine
attempts to be helpful.

Second, it doesn't really matter what boat you buy - at least for a few
years. You will probably get enjoyment from simply being "out there".





Regarding the reputation of the MacGregors, I realize that it isn't the
same type of boat as fixed keel boats such as the Valiant and the O'Day.
However, they entail certain obvious advantages for sailing in bay
areas and with respect to their ability to get to a desired sailing area
quickly, and to return quickly, and to getting through marginal channels


This is the heart of the matter.

You seem to want a sailing vessel. However, you also want to keep your
boat about 25 miles from your sailing area. If you really must keep your
boat so far from a sailing ground, then I think that you should tell us why.
Perhaps that will produce different responses from people.

Regards

Donal
_______________________________

You asked why I wanted to keep the boat 25 miles from the sailing area.
What I meant was that it is 25 miles from the blue water sailing areas
in the Gulf, that I prefer. In our region, 95% of the marinas and slips
are in the Kemah-Seabrook area, located between Houston and Galveston.
I think the reason most people leave their boats here is that it is
some distance inland and considered safer from hurricanes and other
weather issues. There is a large bay near here in which we can sail for
the afternoon. As mentioned below, I recently placed an order for one
of the Mac 26M's. When it's delivered, I'll be able to motor down to
Galveston and to the offshore blue water in about two hours. Or, I can
tow the boat down to various points on the coast and launch it there. -
I'll try several sailing areas and see how they compare and report back
to the group.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jim Cate wrote:
In our area, some of the many "obvious advantages" include the ability
to get out to good sailing waters, sail for half a day, and return to
port within a few hours.

Umm, no. The "obvious advantage" here is that you can get shaken and
deafened while putt-putting out into more open water, then bobbing
around with (or without, doesn't make much difference) sail up, then
reversing the process.

A few days ago I went sailing around our marina. Slaloming among the
outer pilings is fun.

"Good sailing waters" is where good sailors sail.


... If you can only sail on weekends, that's an
"obvious advantage" over a boat that takes six hours to motor to a good
sailing area, and six hours to motor back.

You've been sold a bill of goods. You either should 1- keep the boat
closer to where you want to sail or 2- get a boat that can be enjoyably
sailed in waters a practical distance away. There are many solutions to
every problem, and the one you've fixed on is a rather poor one IMHO.

Meanwhile, you get to ride around on your new boat (did you get red or
blue?) while subsidizing your local Macgregor dealers lifestyle. Enjoy.

FB
Doug King

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

katysails wrote:

Jim stated:
Again, an evaluation of the quality of the boat depends on the criteria
used in the evaluation, and how the boat will be used.

So the MacGregor obviously fits OYUR criteria...go buy one, but don't come
whining back here...but then, maybe you're like Horvath with his blind love
of Hunter's....

1) As you suggested, I did place an order for one of the 26M's.

2) I won't come whining back to the group.

3) I'll be glad to report on my sailing experiences if anyone is
interested.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Ok. Well, I think we're pretty much finished with you. Just about
everyone, including Jax, has tried to be helpful. You're not having
any. And, I guess we'll just have to live with the fact that either you're
not too bright or an asshole who is not too bright.

Well, Johathan, if I'm that dumb, or that much of an asshole, I'm
assuming that you won't be reading any more of my notes or responding to
them. - In that case, all you have to do is to press the "down arrow"
(on the lower right side of your keyboard), and you can quickly
pass by my notes and move on to another topic. Or, even more convenient,
you can easily set up a filter that will filter out all my notes, and
all notes addressed to me, so that you don't even have to hit your
"down" arrow.

So your problems are solved, Johathan. - If you meant what you said,
that is.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Scott Vernon wrote:

autosteering? Do they make one for the 'x' model. That steering wheel is
like, 14'' dia..

SV


I'm not going to sit in that cockpit all the way from Galveston to the
Keys.

Jim


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...

okay, a radar as long as it is at least 4kw and has a CRT screen rather

than an

LCD.


C'mon Jax, give the pedant a break. I saw a mac motoring out the race
equipped with radar.Gave me pause. Kind of like a mouse crawling up an
elephants leg with rape on its mind.

On 01 Apr 2004 15:52:48 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:


you are

forbidden from buying an EPIRB. That would be unethetical on your

part

and

would doom you to Hell for eternity.


Would I be permitted to buy a chart plotter, depth-knot, autosteering,
or VHF?


nope.



Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Scott Vernon wrote:

As the NG moderator, I do.

For my information, what material are you moderating out? What's
permitted, and what isn't? And are the rules different for Mac owners
and fixed hull owners?

Jim



SV

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

Scott, you certainly don't have to read or respond to my notes.
It's rather easy to click the down arrow and move on to another topic.

Jim

Scott Vernon wrote:


Jim, this troll is all used up. Move on.


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


This note concerns the issue of intellectual honesty.

As a follow-up to and summary of the many responses generated by this
question, several hundreds of usually negative, usually dogmatic
statements were posted regarding the MacGregor 26M, but none were posted
by anyone who had actually sailed the 26M. Also, as far as I can
determine, none were posted by anyone who had even spoken to someone who
had actually sailed the boat. (Correct me if I missed one.)
Additionally, there was a long string of comments by posters who had
obviousaly confused various previous MacGregor boats with the current
26M (which incorporates major, substantive changes from the previous
models). Additionally, most writers were not willing, even when
corrected by knowledgeable members of the group, to admit that they were
talking about another boat and didn't actually know what the 26M

entailed.

In other words, as a summary of this long and convoluted series of
pontifications, few participants had the intellectual honesty to admit
that they really didn't know what the hell they were talking about in
the first place. - Of course, this doesn't meant that the 26M is a great
boat. - But it does say something about the character and (lack of)
intellectual honesty of many who posted under this subject string.

Jim


Jim Cate wrote:



I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the Galveston-Houston
area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or sailed
on the boat. Or, anyone else.

For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have some
advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and

doing

some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can therefore
get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
than a fixed keel boat. This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests. Also, in view of the
hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the boat's
ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
islands, would be an obvious advantage. (The 40-foot Valiant, although
a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots

under

motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina

to

the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
finder.)

OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice. Also,
the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. - It
now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel

(which

I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the

years.

As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is clearly
much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the video.)
With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat; it
can reportedly plane under sail.

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the

Mac.

(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used

30

- 32-foot boats.

Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring characteristics
of the new 26M would be appreciated.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

jim, how many boats do you expect to sell from this little piece of advertising
fluff you did here?

In the interest of full disclosure,

What full disclosure? That you sell these things? That this whole thread was
a piece of advertising fluff?

I recently placed an order for one
of the new 26M boats. Having carefully studied all the helpful advice
and unbiased evaluations posted on this and other newsgroups, it became
obvious to me that the Mac 26M was definitely the best choice in the
under $75,000 price range for my intended applications. So, I'm one of
the lucky few who will be able to take delivery of this wonderful new
model in the next few months, since demand far exeeds the supply, and
deliveries are normally several months behind schedule.

Thanks to all for the helpful and educational comments.

Jim

Jim Cate wrote:


I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the Galveston-Houston
area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or sailed
on the boat. Or, anyone else.

For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have some
advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and doing
some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can therefore
get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
than a fixed keel boat. This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests. Also, in view of the
hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the boat's
ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
islands, would be an obvious advantage. (The 40-foot Valiant, although
a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots under
motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina to
the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
finder.)

OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice. Also,
the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. - It
now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel (which
I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the years.
As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is clearly
much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the video.)
With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat; it
can reportedly plane under sail.

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used 30
- 32-foot boats.

Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring characteristics
of the new 26M would be appreciated.

Jim