MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the Galveston-Houston
area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or sailed
on the boat. Or, anyone else.

For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have some
advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and doing
some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can therefore
get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
than a fixed keel boat. This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests. Also, in view of the
hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the boat's
ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
islands, would be an obvious advantage. (The 40-foot Valiant, although
a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots under
motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina to
the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
finder.)

OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice. Also,
the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. - It
now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel (which
I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the years.
As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is clearly
much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the video.)
With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat; it
can reportedly plane under sail.

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used 30
- 32-foot boats.

Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring characteristics
of the new 26M would be appreciated.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Sounds like a 25 foot power boat with a small cabin might be the best choice
for your intended use. After the kids grow up and you get tired of fishing you
can sell the power boat without loosing your ass like you would on the Mac and
you can buy a real sailboat. This was not a flame.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

SAIL LOCO wrote:

Sounds like a 25 foot power boat with a small cabin might be the best choice
for your intended use. After the kids grow up and you get tired of fishing you
can sell the power boat without loosing your ass like you would on the Mac and
you can buy a real sailboat. This was not a flame.

Sure it is... just one with a healthy dose of reality. The Mac26X (or "M" if that's
what they are calling it now) PowR-SailR is a choice for people who can't make up
their minds and don't know much about either motorboats or sailing. First of all,
the advertising is very misleading. They will not go 24 mph under power, unless you
either put a bigger motor than it's rated for (and crack the transom open in 1
season) or strip the boat of all extraneous weight like passengers, cooler, mast,
etc etc. You're more likely to see 15 ~ 18 mph... which is still a lot faster than
most sailboats can go in most conditions. But much slower than a real motorboat,
and the PowR-SailR sails poorly at best... not enjoyable sport IMHO.

If the issue is distance to cover, then either get a boat to keep at a marina
closer to good sailing grounds and drive 65mph to there, thus saving large amounts
of time... or get a trailerable boat that can be trailered (again at 65mph)... with
the benefit that you can take it other places as well.

If you're not sure if you like sailing enough to go to all that trouble, you
probably won't. Get a motorboat (and this isn't intended as an insult, because I
have a motorboat myself... along with three sailboats).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

DSK wrote:

SAIL LOCO wrote:


Sounds like a 25 foot power boat with a small cabin might be the best choice
for your intended use. After the kids grow up and you get tired of fishing you
can sell the power boat without loosing your ass like you would on the Mac and
you can buy a real sailboat. This was not a flame.


Sure it is... just one with a healthy dose of reality. The Mac26X (or "M" if that's
what they are calling it now) PowR-SailR is a choice for people who can't make up
their minds and don't know much about either motorboats or sailing. First of all,
the advertising is very misleading. They will not go 24 mph under power, unless you
either put a bigger motor than it's rated for (and crack the transom open in 1
season) or strip the boat of all extraneous weight like passengers, cooler, mast,
etc etc. You're more likely to see 15 ~ 18 mph... which is still a lot faster than
most sailboats can go in most conditions. But much slower than a real motorboat,
and the PowR-SailR sails poorly at best... not enjoyable sport IMHO.

If the issue is distance to cover, then either get a boat to keep at a marina
closer to good sailing grounds and drive 65mph to there, thus saving large amounts
of time... or get a trailerable boat that can be trailered (again at 65mph)... with
the benefit that you can take it other places as well.

If you're not sure if you like sailing enough to go to all that trouble, you
probably won't. Get a motorboat (and this isn't intended as an insult, because I
have a motorboat myself... along with three sailboats).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


Thanks for the suggestions. As noted previously, most of my sailing
experience over the past 25 years has been on larger boats, in the 30-35
ft range, that we chartered for family vacations. We would live aboard
the boats for a week, sailing (sometimes in in some pretty high winds),
swimming, cooking meals and sleeping at anchor. I've had training from
several sailing "schools," including an Annapolis Sailing School nav and
heavy boat handling course. So, although I'm sure there are many more
experienced sailors on this ng, I'm well-aware that such heavier boats
are "better" than the MacGregor in a number of ways, particularly for
blue water sailing. The 40 foot Valiant, for example, had three
mainsail reefing lines led to the cockpit, color coded, such that you
could adjust the main to any desired reefing point without leaving the
cockpit, along with roller furling on the jib, plus a staysail.- It was
stable and fast and great for sailing in blue water, making some 9 knots
with the staysail and jib up. Also, of course, owning a larger,
traditional boat would certainly get me more respect from fellow
sailors, whereas sailing a Mac 26 will make me the subject of continued
ridicule and disdain (I should expect continued comments like: He
doesn't know enough about sailboats to realize what a mistake he
made...").

But for our area and conditions and the anticipated uses of the boat,
I'm not sure that these heavier boats would be the best choice or
provide the greatest enjoyment and satisfaction, which I suppose is the
ultimate criteria. (Remember that I can still charter a variety of
larger boats when desired.) In the Kehmah-Seabrook (Houston) area, we
have some huge marinas with thousands of beautiful sailboats of all
types and sizes. But most of these boats sit in their slips in the
marinas for 99.9 percent of the time. - I have had friends tell me
that, after the initial purchase, they had such difficulty in getting
time to go out and in getting crews to go with them, that the boat sat
there, with ongoing maintenance costs, bottom treatments, marina fees,
insurance, etc., so that they finally sold the boat. In my particular
situation, my former crew (my kids) is not available, and my wife
doesn't seem to be too keen on getting out in anything but ideal
weather. Maybe I could get some of my friends to go, but probably not on
the schedule or frequency I would prefer, and I'm not sure I want to go
out on a large boat by myself, even with roller furling, etc. As
mentioned, we have grandkids who I think would not enjoy the relatively
extended motoring and cruising time entailed in getting a heavy boat to
good sailing areas as is necessary in our area and then back to the
dock. For family outings, the Mac has the advantage that you can anchor
it in shallow water, or beach it on an island, etc. (I'll investigate
other marina choices, however.)

Regarding the new Mac model 26M, several pretty substantial changes have
been made as compared with the 26X model. They include a new hull
design entailing a deeper, heavier, 15 degree bottom, rounded corners at
the sides, a partial lead ballast rather than full water ballast, a
flatter hull, adjustable dagger board rather than pivotable fin keel,
rotatable mast, additional fiberglass and roving, etc. WHETHER OR NOT
these changes are going to be effective in improving the handling and
performance of the boat, they are significant, substantive changes, so I
don't think it is logical or reasonable to describe the handling and
performance of the new M model based on observations or (usually)
hearsay relating to the older models. The interior of the boat is open,
with lots of windows, and gives the impression that you are on a much
larger boat. (The Valiant 40 that we sailed in the gulf had a
traditional interior that was segregated into several cabins, and the
main salon was therefore not exceptionally roomy or bright and
"cheery.") (By the way, the Mac 26 can be powered with a much larger
motor if you want high speeds and water-skiing capability. - I don't
need or want to go over around 18-20mph, which is still three times
faster than most fixed keel boats.) On the other hand, I don't know how
the new boat sails or handles under power, which is why I posted my
questions. Their video of the M and S models saling side-by-side shows
the M model sailing by the older model as if it were standing still.
Again, I don't know if the "race" was rigged, etc. - You might want to
take a look at the video, that can be downloaded from the MacGregor
site.

Meanwhile, I'll also be looking at some of the larger used boats for
sale in our area. Apparently, I can get an older 30-32 Cal, Catalina,
C&C, etc., for about the same price as a fully equipped Mac 26.
Conditions and needed repairs and maintenance are another question, of
course.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jim Cate wrote in message ...
I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the Galveston-Houston
area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or sailed
on the boat. Or, anyone else.

Ive seen em and would not have one, BTW I live on ClearLake.


For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have some
advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and doing
some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can therefore
get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
than a fixed keel boat.

There are lots of places to do good fishing without going into the
gulf. You can catch Flounder right off the junction at Seabrook
shipyard, Speckeled trout RedFish ect can be had at the taylor lake
cut, Lots of redfish in trinity bay, Chocolate bay, ect.. If your just
have to have red Snapper there are many rigs just 10 miles offshore.


This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests.

With a nice sailboat your can keep em busy learning how to set the
sails, you can trool for fish going in and out. Teach them how to
navigate, Bring a shotgun along and shoot skeet, very challenging on a
rocking boat. And if they keep whining are we home yet just toss them
overboard. No body likes a whiner.



Also, in view of the
hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the boat's
ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
islands, would be an obvious advantage.

You can get into most areas here with a keel boat with a raisable
board. If you must fish the flats tow along a dink anchor out your
boat and row or walk onto the flats.



(The 40-foot Valiant, although
a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots under
motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina to
the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
finder.)

More like 3 and a half hours max, and its easy enogh to get to the
channel and then the channel is well marked and 50 foot deep in the
center.



OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice. Also,
the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. - It
now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel (which
I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the years.
As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is clearly
much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the video.)
With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat; it
can reportedly plane under sail.

Sounds like speed is your major concern. If so just get a stick pot.


A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area.

Yeah and if your dying to go offshore and fish there are many fishing
boats out of Galveston and freeport. I would not be caught dead
offshore in the gulf in a MAC morphadyte.


Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours on
a powered fishing boat.)

Bimini, wheelhose ect.... = shade

A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used 30
- 32-foot boats.

Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring characteristics
of the new 26M would be appreciated.

Jim

Never been on one but we love to laugh at the suckers that buy em.


Joe
MSV RedCloud

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Not to trumpet the successful redesign of Mac's, but the M is nothing like
the X. I have a friend who has one. I was not really all that embarrassed to
climb aboard. :-)

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Sure it is... just one with a healthy dose of reality. The Mac26X (or
"M" if that's
what they are calling it now) PowR-SailR is a choice for people who can't
make up
their minds and don't know much about either motorboats or sailing. First
of all,
the advertising is very misleading. They will not go 24 mph under power,
unless you
either put a bigger motor than it's rated for (and crack the transom open
in 1
season) or strip the boat of all extraneous weight like passengers,
cooler, mast,
etc etc. You're more likely to see 15 ~ 18 mph... which is still a lot
faster than
most sailboats can go in most conditions. But much slower than a real
motorboat,
and the PowR-SailR sails poorly at best... not enjoyable sport IMHO.

If the issue is distance to cover, then either get a boat to keep at a
marina
closer to good sailing grounds and drive 65mph to there, thus saving large
amounts
of time... or get a trailerable boat that can be trailered (again at
65mph)... with
the benefit that you can take it other places as well.

If you're not sure if you like sailing enough to go to all that trouble,
you
probably won't. Get a motorboat (and this isn't intended as an insult,
because I
have a motorboat myself... along with three sailboats).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Never been on one but we love to laugh at the suckers that buy em.


I have been on one, at a boat show. Special price of $30k, all up and brand
new.

I would not buy it at $3k, unless I knew someone I could lay the thing off on
for $4k.

That is one flimsy boat, and those I have seen on the water (in under 8 knots
of wind) never sailed well (maybe Mac owners could blame the sailor) nor
motored well (maybe Mac owners could blame the engine as too small).

Some people *do* buy them though and call them sailboats just as some people
buy Wasa Brot and call it dessert.

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

whereas sailing a Mac 26 will make me the subject of continued
ridicule and disdain (I should expect continued comments like: He
doesn't know enough about sailboats to realize what a mistake he
made...").

Kinda goes along with something I read/heard a long time ago. "Never buy a
boat that you wouldn't want to be seen arriving on"
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

From: "Jonathan Ganz"
Date: 3/1/2004 12:09 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

I have a friend who has one. I was not really all that embarrassed to
climb aboard. :-)

says something, doesn't it.

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Yep. It says you have no idea what the differences are,
and you're an idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
From: "Jonathan Ganz"
Date: 3/1/2004 12:09 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

I have a friend who has one. I was not really all that embarrassed to
climb aboard. :-)

says something, doesn't it.

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Yep. It says you have no idea what the differences are,
and you're an idiot.


What is the point of this, Jonathan? I think we all agree that the Mac26 is a
poor sailing boat and that Jim would probably do better to reaccess his needs
and limitations before buying one.
There's a Mac26X at my club. The two owners appear to be very unhappy with it.
Perhaps it's not "the boat." I've asked them about it and they seem none to
excited to "brag" about it as most owners do. Whenever I show various boats to
interested folks, the mac always brings about something like "What the hell is
that?" Few are impressed. My Hoover has nicer lines.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

My Hoover has nicer lines.

RB

I thought you had a C&C. Hoovers SUCK!


LOL, Bill.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Oh please. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

I think I'll post whatever I want to post.

While the M isn't the best boat out there, it's more a factor of
who's sailing it and for what purpose than it's obviously lacking
quality.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Yep. It says you have no idea what the differences are,
and you're an idiot.


What is the point of this, Jonathan? I think we all agree that the Mac26
is a
poor sailing boat and that Jim would probably do better to reaccess his
needs
and limitations before buying one.
There's a Mac26X at my club. The two owners appear to be very unhappy with
it.
Perhaps it's not "the boat." I've asked them about it and they seem none
to
excited to "brag" about it as most owners do. Whenever I show various
boats to
interested folks, the mac always brings about something like "What the
hell is
that?" Few are impressed. My Hoover has nicer lines.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

joony wrote:

While the M isn't the best boat out there, it's more a factor of
who's sailing it and for what purpose than it's obviously lacking
quality.

what joony is saying is that given his skills the Mac is a better boat than he
is a sailor.

kinda sad, that is.

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

While the M isn't the best boat out there, it's more a factor of
who's sailing it and for what purpose than it's obviously lacking
quality.


The Mac is a horriblly cheap boat. To say it isn't "the best boat out there" is
overselling it in the extreme.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Oh please. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.


What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Are you supporting the
Mac26X as a viable vessel?

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Better still, Jonathan...can you explain to us under what circumstances YOU
would buy a Mac26X?
I can't think of ANY for myself. I'd rather have a sailboat or a
powerboat...never the Mac.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Not to trumpet the successful redesign of Mac's, but the M is nothing like
the X. I have a friend who has one. I was not really all that embarrassed to
climb aboard. :-)

It's not all that different. In fact the basic hull & deck molding appears to be
99% identical. We have a couple of the new models at our marina. They still
don't sail very well.

However, they are relatively inexpensive for their accomodation, and make a
great boat-shaped camper trailer.

DSK

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Kinda sad that you're an idiot, but I guess that balances
out the geniuses in the world.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
joony wrote:

While the M isn't the best boat out there, it's more a factor of
who's sailing it and for what purpose than it's obviously lacking
quality.

what joony is saying is that given his skills the Mac is a better boat
than he
is a sailor.

kinda sad, that is.

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

The M isn't anything close to the X, but I see your point.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
While the M isn't the best boat out there, it's more a factor of
who's sailing it and for what purpose than it's obviously lacking
quality.


The Mac is a horriblly cheap boat. To say it isn't "the best boat out
there" is
overselling it in the extreme.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Not at all. I think the X version are trash. The M isn't as bad as
that and is capable of sailing on the bay (for example) without
compromising one's safety. It's a different boat.
"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Oh please. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.


What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Are you supporting the
Mac26X as a viable vessel?

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

No. I can't. Perhaps if I was stupid like Jax....

Again, I'm talking about the M, which doesn't have the huge engine
as is a "sailboat" not a horrible compromise.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Better still, Jonathan...can you explain to us under what circumstances
YOU
would buy a Mac26X?
I can't think of ANY for myself. I'd rather have a sailboat or a
powerboat...never the Mac.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

However, they are relatively inexpensive for their accomodation, and make a
great boat-shaped camper trailer.

DSK

doug, they are $30k at boatshow special prices.

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

yeah, but thirty GRAND???


For once, I have to agree with Jonathan. Perhaps we all tend to approach
such questions from our own parochial view of what a "real" boat should be,
not realizing that a boat should fit the desires and needs of its owner, not
some pre-conceived notion of an ideal boat in the sky.

I'd say that if the Mac M does what you want it to do better than the
alternatives, and suits the way you intend to use it, go for it and have the
self-confidence to give the finger to those who presume to look down on you
for choosing what suits your needs.


Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

However, they are relatively inexpensive for their accomodation, and make a
great boat-shaped camper trailer.


JAXAshby wrote:
doug, they are $30k at boatshow special prices.

You don't get out much, do you? That's not very expensive for either a new boat
or a new camper trailer in that size range. But maybe $30K is a horrendous lot
of money to you, Jax?

DSK

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

For half of $30k one can buy a lot of fine, fine, fine used 26 foot sailboats.

the word "horrendous" is normally used not in the context of absolute dollars,
but rather in the context of what one gets for the dollars.

What you get for your money is a brand new Mac 26.

Is Mac the only choice for those who wish a 26 foot boat bought brand new?


That's not very expensive for either a new boat
or a new camper trailer in that size range. But maybe $30K is a horrendous
lot
of money to you, Jax?

DSK

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

For once I have to agree with Jax... $30K is way too much. Even
if you want to stick with a Mac (not the X, not the X), then you
can get a model just before the M (I forget the model name), for
1/3 of that.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
yeah, but thirty GRAND???


For once, I have to agree with Jonathan. Perhaps we all tend to approach
such questions from our own parochial view of what a "real" boat should
be,
not realizing that a boat should fit the desires and needs of its owner,
not
some pre-conceived notion of an ideal boat in the sky.

I'd say that if the Mac M does what you want it to do better than the
alternatives, and suits the way you intend to use it, go for it and have
the
self-confidence to give the finger to those who presume to look down on
you
for choosing what suits your needs.


Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

I'd say it's more like 75% the same. There are differences that appear to
make
it a better sailor.

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Not to trumpet the successful redesign of Mac's, but the M is nothing
like
the X. I have a friend who has one. I was not really all that
embarrassed to
climb aboard. :-)

It's not all that different. In fact the basic hull & deck molding appears
to be
99% identical. We have a couple of the new models at our marina. They
still
don't sail very well.

However, they are relatively inexpensive for their accomodation, and make
a
great boat-shaped camper trailer.

DSK

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

That's the first I've seen the 'M' model. Looks like they took a big step
backwards re the cabin, which looks exactly like the old (pre 'X') 26'. The
hull still has that ugly step in it, and the gross power-boat type
'windows'.
I've seen a few Xs sailing and talked to a few owners who really love them.
They're not bad boats for their purpose (shallow draft/power/sailboat) if
you can get past the look. Not for ocean sailing, though.
If you really want to talk to owners, Sailnet has a Mac mailing list, and
one just for X owners.

It sounds like you're worried what others will think. In that case, stay
away from the Mac.

S.Vernon

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:

SAIL LOCO wrote:


Sounds like a 25 foot power boat with a small cabin might be the best
choice
for your intended use. After the kids grow up and you get tired of
fishing you
can sell the power boat without loosing your ass like you would on the
Mac and
you can buy a real sailboat. This was not a flame.


Sure it is... just one with a healthy dose of reality. The Mac26X (or
"M" if that's
what they are calling it now) PowR-SailR is a choice for people who
can't make up
their minds and don't know much about either motorboats or sailing.
First of all,
the advertising is very misleading. They will not go 24 mph under power,
unless you
either put a bigger motor than it's rated for (and crack the transom
open in 1
season) or strip the boat of all extraneous weight like passengers,
cooler, mast,
etc etc. You're more likely to see 15 ~ 18 mph... which is still a lot
faster than
most sailboats can go in most conditions. But much slower than a real
motorboat,
and the PowR-SailR sails poorly at best... not enjoyable sport IMHO.

If the issue is distance to cover, then either get a boat to keep at a
marina
closer to good sailing grounds and drive 65mph to there, thus saving
large amounts
of time... or get a trailerable boat that can be trailered (again at
65mph)... with
the benefit that you can take it other places as well.

If you're not sure if you like sailing enough to go to all that trouble,
you
probably won't. Get a motorboat (and this isn't intended as an insult,
because I
have a motorboat myself... along with three sailboats).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


Thanks for the suggestions. As noted previously, most of my sailing
experience over the past 25 years has been on larger boats, in the 30-35
ft range, that we chartered for family vacations. We would live aboard
the boats for a week, sailing (sometimes in in some pretty high winds),
swimming, cooking meals and sleeping at anchor. I've had training from
several sailing "schools," including an Annapolis Sailing School nav and
heavy boat handling course. So, although I'm sure there are many more
experienced sailors on this ng, I'm well-aware that such heavier boats
are "better" than the MacGregor in a number of ways, particularly for
blue water sailing. The 40 foot Valiant, for example, had three
mainsail reefing lines led to the cockpit, color coded, such that you
could adjust the main to any desired reefing point without leaving the
cockpit, along with roller furling on the jib, plus a staysail.- It was
stable and fast and great for sailing in blue water, making some 9 knots
with the staysail and jib up. Also, of course, owning a larger,
traditional boat would certainly get me more respect from fellow
sailors, whereas sailing a Mac 26 will make me the subject of continued
ridicule and disdain (I should expect continued comments like: He
doesn't know enough about sailboats to realize what a mistake he
made...").

But for our area and conditions and the anticipated uses of the boat,
I'm not sure that these heavier boats would be the best choice or
provide the greatest enjoyment and satisfaction, which I suppose is the
ultimate criteria. (Remember that I can still charter a variety of
larger boats when desired.) In the Kehmah-Seabrook (Houston) area, we
have some huge marinas with thousands of beautiful sailboats of all
types and sizes. But most of these boats sit in their slips in the
marinas for 99.9 percent of the time. - I have had friends tell me
that, after the initial purchase, they had such difficulty in getting
time to go out and in getting crews to go with them, that the boat sat
there, with ongoing maintenance costs, bottom treatments, marina fees,
insurance, etc., so that they finally sold the boat. In my particular
situation, my former crew (my kids) is not available, and my wife
doesn't seem to be too keen on getting out in anything but ideal
weather. Maybe I could get some of my friends to go, but probably not on
the schedule or frequency I would prefer, and I'm not sure I want to go
out on a large boat by myself, even with roller furling, etc. As
mentioned, we have grandkids who I think would not enjoy the relatively
extended motoring and cruising time entailed in getting a heavy boat to
good sailing areas as is necessary in our area and then back to the
dock. For family outings, the Mac has the advantage that you can anchor
it in shallow water, or beach it on an island, etc. (I'll investigate
other marina choices, however.)

Regarding the new Mac model 26M, several pretty substantial changes have
been made as compared with the 26X model. They include a new hull
design entailing a deeper, heavier, 15 degree bottom, rounded corners at
the sides, a partial lead ballast rather than full water ballast, a
flatter hull, adjustable dagger board rather than pivotable fin keel,
rotatable mast, additional fiberglass and roving, etc. WHETHER OR NOT
these changes are going to be effective in improving the handling and
performance of the boat, they are significant, substantive changes, so I
don't think it is logical or reasonable to describe the handling and
performance of the new M model based on observations or (usually)
hearsay relating to the older models. The interior of the boat is open,
with lots of windows, and gives the impression that you are on a much
larger boat. (The Valiant 40 that we sailed in the gulf had a
traditional interior that was segregated into several cabins, and the
main salon was therefore not exceptionally roomy or bright and
"cheery.") (By the way, the Mac 26 can be powered with a much larger
motor if you want high speeds and water-skiing capability. - I don't
need or want to go over around 18-20mph, which is still three times
faster than most fixed keel boats.) On the other hand, I don't know how
the new boat sails or handles under power, which is why I posted my
questions. Their video of the M and S models saling side-by-side shows
the M model sailing by the older model as if it were standing still.
Again, I don't know if the "race" was rigged, etc. - You might want to
take a look at the video, that can be downloaded from the MacGregor
site.

Meanwhile, I'll also be looking at some of the larger used boats for
sale in our area. Apparently, I can get an older 30-32 Cal, Catalina,
C&C, etc., for about the same price as a fully equipped Mac 26.
Conditions and needed repairs and maintenance are another question, of
course.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Did you sail on it? Always thought that tiny wheel would be awkward.

Scotty

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Not to trumpet the successful redesign of Mac's, but the M is nothing like
the X. I have a friend who has one. I was not really all that embarrassed
to
climb aboard. :-)

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Sure it is... just one with a healthy dose of reality. The Mac26X (or
"M" if that's
what they are calling it now) PowR-SailR is a choice for people who
can't
make up
their minds and don't know much about either motorboats or sailing.
First
of all,
the advertising is very misleading. They will not go 24 mph under power,
unless you
either put a bigger motor than it's rated for (and crack the transom
open
in 1
season) or strip the boat of all extraneous weight like passengers,
cooler, mast,
etc etc. You're more likely to see 15 ~ 18 mph... which is still a lot
faster than
most sailboats can go in most conditions. But much slower than a real
motorboat,
and the PowR-SailR sails poorly at best... not enjoyable sport IMHO.

If the issue is distance to cover, then either get a boat to keep at a
marina
closer to good sailing grounds and drive 65mph to there, thus saving
large
amounts
of time... or get a trailerable boat that can be trailered (again at
65mph)... with
the benefit that you can take it other places as well.

If you're not sure if you like sailing enough to go to all that trouble,
you
probably won't. Get a motorboat (and this isn't intended as an insult,
because I
have a motorboat myself... along with three sailboats).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

How much is a new Hunter 26? BTW Mac is advertised at $18k +/- the buyer
drives the price up with BIG motors.

SV

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
yeah, but thirty GRAND???


For once, I have to agree with Jonathan. Perhaps we all tend to approach
such questions from our own parochial view of what a "real" boat should
be,
not realizing that a boat should fit the desires and needs of its owner,
not
some pre-conceived notion of an ideal boat in the sky.

I'd say that if the Mac M does what you want it to do better than the
alternatives, and suits the way you intend to use it, go for it and have
the
self-confidence to give the finger to those who presume to look down on
you
for choosing what suits your needs.


Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

I'd say it's more like 75% the same. There are differences that appear to
make
it a better sailor.

I think they changed the deck & cockpit layout some, and improved the heck out
of the steering & rudders (which needed it badly... out my several friends who
owned one of these, *all* of them broke their steering at one point or another).
But I'd be surprised if the sailing performance has improved very much.

There's a much-ballyhoo'ed PHRF rating on them of around 215, which was given to
a Mac dealer on the Chesapeake who sailed it with 3 guys on trapezes, a masthead
spinnaker, and no water ballast. But the stock boat probably deserves a PHRf
rating around 300.


JAXAshby wrote:

For half of $30k one can buy a lot of fine, fine, fine used 26 foot sailboats.

Yep. But why compare the prices of *new* boats to *used* ones? Surely your MENSA
intellect can distinguish the difference?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Mac is advertised at $18k +/- the buyer
drives the price up with BIG motors.

Last time I went to A/C boatshow, a Mac was sitting there with a sign on it
loudly proclaiming $29,xxx, a "boat show special". I seem recall that taxes
and title were not mentioned.

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

why compare the prices of *new* boats to *used* ones?

value.

Surely your MENSA
intellect can distinguish the difference?

yup, value. compare a brand new Mac 26 at $30k to a used Buccaneer 26 for
$950. Much the same space inside. compare a brand new Mac 26 $30k to a used
Contessa 26 at $10k. The Contessa has crossed oceans and you have twenty grand
left over.

but some people want to buy new.

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

if you go to the URL Jim posted you'll see the price I quoted. That's w/o
motor.

Can't you find the Hunter price?

SV


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Mac is advertised at $18k +/- the buyer
drives the price up with BIG motors.

Last time I went to A/C boatshow, a Mac was sitting there with a sign on
it
loudly proclaiming $29,xxx, a "boat show special". I seem recall that
taxes
and title were not mentioned.

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

You're a brave man to admit that here.

SV


"Dave" wrote

I'll admit to having briefly considered a Mac,

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

You're a brave man to admit that here.

hey, I was briefly considered a Hunter. But I was younger then.


I'll admit to having briefly considered a Mac,

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

But maybe $30K is a horrendous lot
of money to you, Jax?


It's a horendous amount for THAT boat. 30K can buy....

A J30 and a J24
Two Pearson 30s
A C&C 30 late model
A Catalina 30 late 80's
A Bristol 29.5

And so on....

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

None of those boats can do what the Mac can.


What's that? Flex the hull when you pull on the shrouds?

It's a horendous amount for THAT boat. 30K can buy....

A J30 and a J24
Two Pearson 30s
A C&C 30 late model
A Catalina 30 late 80's
A Bristol 29.5

And so on....

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

some of my non-sailing friends think Hunters are great boats with a great
rep. Name recognition, I guess.

Scotty

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
You're a brave man to admit that here.

hey, I was briefly considered a Hunter. But I was younger then.


I'll admit to having briefly considered a Mac,