MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Total bs and, of course, a lie.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Alt.Sailing.Asa for some years now. It's up to you if you want to take
any
of
it seriously.

Which you are 85% responsible for yourself.

That's in the past. There are only a few trollers left in this NG now. I
was
not "warned by AOL" or contacted by them in any way. I just got stunningly
bored with it all; the same insults day after day. It was enough already.

RB

SPAM ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

I would never confirm or deny it.

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Spamming NG is frowned on, bob. You'd better hope Jon doesn't report you.

SV

"Bobsprit" wrote
Need any oars, Scotty? 20 bucks to Alt.Sailing.Asa members.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Sure is... SOCKPUPPET ALERT. Danger Will Robinson.

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
sniff, sniff.......kinda funny how 'Jim' and 'Bob' use the same phrases
and
misspell the same words.

SV

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Bobsprit wrote:
You need to read the notes you respond to more carefully. What I said
was:


Jim, while this group can offer valid and often helpful advice, they
soon tire
of a subject and turn to school yard in-fighting. It's been the nature
of
Alt.Sailing.Asa for some years now. It's up to you if you want to take
any of
it seriously.
The Mac line of power sailors is generally considered by MANY to be
ugly, cheap
and poor sailing boats. They are also expensive for what they are. I
was
aboard
a new M at the AC Boat show (I didn't even know it wasn't called the
26X
anymore). It was a laughable excuse for a power or sailboat. I was
told
it
could do nearly 25 knots, though 3 foot chop would cut that by a 3rd.
A
3rd?
Such a loss of performance from moderate chop is indicative of design
limits
too steep for my blood.
Few people, other than a Mac owner will encourage you to buy one.
While
it may
be the "best" compromise between power and sail, the trade offs are
downright
offensive to sailors. If you have sailed good sailboats, I seriously
think
you'll be dissapointed in the Mac and regret buying one.

Best of Luck,

Robert B
C&C 32, Alien
NY

Robert,
In any event, my notes apparently provide some entertainment value to
the group, since this seems to be one of the more active current
discussion topics. I was aware of the general reputation of the Mac
boats before posting my questions, but I was looking for information
about the new model, that includes significant mods that may have
resolved at least some of the limitations of previous models. Looking
for some "logical" and "rational" advice.

I appreciate your balanced and helpful comments. I'm aware that all
boats, including the Mac, would entail compromises for my particular
intended uses in the Galveston-Kemah environment. I'm not settled on a
trailorable boat, and there are lots of used, larger boats available in
our area. As mentioned previously, if I bought a fixed-keel boat I would
plan to leave it with a local charter company to minimize the time spent
in maintaining and checking on the boat. I wouldn't expect to get a
positive cash flow from the rentals, but my CPA mentioned that there may
be some tax benefits from such an arrangement. - It's largely a matter
of minimizing marina fees and being able to leave the boat with someone
who would keep an eye on it. I plan to meet with the charterer this
week and then check out some of the used boats they might accept.

Boats offered for sale in this area in the $20,000 - $30,000 price range
include 30 to 33-foot: Catalinas, S-2s, (older) Pearsons, Cals, C&Cs,
Siedlemanns, Hunters (nasty word - sorry), Columbias, Ericsons, and
several others that I wasn't familiar with. These boats vary in age
(1970 - 1985) and condition, but many of the ads claim that they have
been carefully maintained and upgraded. For more money, there are some
Tartans, O'Days, Sabres, Island Packets, etc. Although I would
obviously need to check out the condition and equipment of the boats and
obtain a survey if I were seriously considering one, do you have any
suggestions as to what to look for in this price range and venue?
Features that I think would be important a roller reefing and lines
led aft; wheel steering (required by the charter company); adequate sail
inventory in good condition; diesel engine in good condition; suitable
electronics; clean interior and recent bottom treatment; through-hull
valves, sump pumps, etc., in either new or good condition; no evidence
of water in the bilge; fun, fast, and exciting to sail, etc. For the
Houston weather, air conditioning would be nice, although few of the
boats also have an on-board generator to power it at anchor. Also, what
about one of the retractable-extendable keel boats, or the shoal draft
boats, for our shallow bay waters? - Would this mess up the offshore
sailing capabilities?

I would appreciate knowing what you and others recommend looking for
under these conditions and in this price range.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

It was originally intended to be a high quality, affordable boat.
It still is after 40 years.

No it wasn't.
No one in this newsgroup owns a high quality boat.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

No one in this newsgroup owns a high quality boat.


Hey!! That's not true. *I* own an Achilles dinghy!!

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Hey!! That's not true. *I* own an Achilles dinghy!!


A very good dinghy.


RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

wrote


My particular boat would go for above the average due to extremely
good condition and equipment due to no sailing.

BB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Wait till his kid does a Google and finds out how much of an asshole his ol
man is. :o

SV


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Total bs and, of course, a lie.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Alt.Sailing.Asa for some years now. It's up to you if you want to take
any
of
it seriously.

Which you are 85% responsible for yourself.

That's in the past. There are only a few trollers left in this NG now. I
was
not "warned by AOL" or contacted by them in any way. I just got
stunningly
bored with it all; the same insults day after day. It was enough
already.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

It kills him to see other people happy with their boats.

SV


"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
It was originally intended to be a high quality, affordable boat.
It still is after 40 years.

No it wasn't.
No one in this newsgroup owns a high quality boat.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

I resent that! My boat was chosen as "one of the world's best sailboats" by no less an authority
than Ferenc Mate! I'm sure there are others with high quality boats.
--
-jeff

"Bobsprit" wrote in message ...
It was originally intended to be a high quality, affordable boat.
It still is after 40 years.

No it wasn't.
No one in this newsgroup owns a high quality boat.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:50:50 -0500, "Jeff Morris"
wrote:

I resent that! My boat was chosen as "one of the world's best sailboats" by no less an authority
than Ferenc Mate! I'm sure there are others with high quality boats.

My boat was also built by one of the "best builders" according to
Mate. I consider it to be a "high quality" boat for my purposes,
though not a museum piece:)

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

No one in this newsgroup owns a high quality boat.....

LOL................. But you own a high stern ladder.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

It kills him to see other people happy with their boats.

Right. He wouldn't know a high quality boat if it T-Boned him.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

er, I'm sure you meant, if HE T-boned one.

SV

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
It kills him to see other people happy with their boats.

Right. He wouldn't know a high quality boat if it T-Boned him.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

I resent that! My boat was chosen as "one of the world's best sailboats" by no
less an authority
than Ferenc Mate!


Jeff, you have a fine boat, but a Swan or Shannon it aint. Maybe Loco thinks
his Express is on that level or maybe he's never been aboard a 1st class yacht,
which is more probable.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

My particular boat would go for above the average due to extremely
good condition and equipment.


C&C 27s are instant sellers if they're well kept. Even the older ones, and
Bill's is a late model. I have been unable to find a good C&C 30 or post 1980
C&C 29 for my friend. They have gone too high in price over the last few years.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

A Swan? Probably not. But a Shannon, sure. Shannons are very nice but they're
not museum quality, like Little Harbors and Hinckley's.


"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
I resent that! My boat was chosen as "one of the world's best sailboats" by
no
less an authority
than Ferenc Mate!


Jeff, you have a fine boat, but a Swan or Shannon it aint. Maybe Loco thinks
his Express is on that level or maybe he's never been aboard a 1st class
yacht,
which is more probable.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jeff Morris wrote:

A Swan? Probably not. But a Shannon, sure. Shannons are very nice but they're
not museum quality, like Little Harbors and Hinckley's.

Our Hunter 19 was greatly admired & praised one day a few years back, by the owner
of a ~ 50' Oyster. I had helped with his dock lines, and then later said hello to
him from our cockpit as he was walking ashore. My wife, friendly soul, struck up a
conversation with him & invited him aboard. She had no idea he was from the
capital-Y Yacht at the end of the pier! But we had a cup of coffee in our small
cabin and discussed sailing & cruising.

One comment he made I remember verbatim: "You could go *anywhere* in this boat!"
Kinda ironic, isn't it? Of course we were discussing draft at the time....

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Kinda ironic, isn't it?

yup

Of course we were discussing draft at the time....


and he was discussing the upper back creeks of the ICW.

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

the new reformed & warned "Bobsprit" wrote...


Jeff, you have a fine boat, but a Swan or Shannon it aint. Maybe Loco
thinks
his Express is on that level or maybe he's never been aboard a 1st class
yacht,
which is more probable.


or maybe he's happy with the boat he has and isn't worried about impressing
people with names.

SV

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

In article , Joe
wrote:

Jim Cate wrote in message
...

Translation of the below message:

I bought a Mac, and I need someone to tell me it's OK.

Yeah, that's what it reads like to me, too. I've never even seen one,
so have no opinion pro/con, but I see a made-up mind.

PDW

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jeff, you have a fine boat, but a Swan or Shannon it aint. Maybe Loco thinks
his Express is on that level or maybe he's never been aboard a 1st class yacht,
which is more probable. .

The Express isn't a Swan but it's a step up from a C&C.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

A big step? Is that why they have those huge ladders?

"SAIL LOCO" wrote

The Express isn't a Swan but it's a step up from a C&C.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Joe wrote:
Jim Cate wrote in message ...

Translation of the below message:

I bought a Mac, and I need someone to tell me it's OK.


Nope. I can afford a nice 32-ft. Catalina, Pearson, Cal, etc., but I'm
not sure whether I can afford the MacGregor 26M. I suppose it's a case
of you get what you pay for, particularly if you want current technology.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

And how many times have you sailed on the 26M, DK? - Was it five times,
ten times, fifteen? I seem to have forgotten.

Jim

DSK wrote:

SAIL LOCO wrote:


Sounds like a 25 foot power boat with a small cabin might be the best choice
for your intended use. After the kids grow up and you get tired of fishing you
can sell the power boat without loosing your ass like you would on the Mac and
you can buy a real sailboat. This was not a flame.


Sure it is... just one with a healthy dose of reality. The Mac26X (or "M" if that's
what they are calling it now) PowR-SailR is a choice for people who can't make up
their minds and don't know much about either motorboats or sailing. First of all,
the advertising is very misleading. They will not go 24 mph under power, unless you
either put a bigger motor than it's rated for (and crack the transom open in 1
season) or strip the boat of all extraneous weight like passengers, cooler, mast,
etc etc. You're more likely to see 15 ~ 18 mph... which is still a lot faster than
most sailboats can go in most conditions. But much slower than a real motorboat,
and the PowR-SailR sails poorly at best... not enjoyable sport IMHO.

If the issue is distance to cover, then either get a boat to keep at a marina
closer to good sailing grounds and drive 65mph to there, thus saving large amounts
of time... or get a trailerable boat that can be trailered (again at 65mph)... with
the benefit that you can take it other places as well.

If you're not sure if you like sailing enough to go to all that trouble, you
probably won't. Get a motorboat (and this isn't intended as an insult, because I
have a motorboat myself... along with three sailboats).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

I'm worried about what others will think? So I continue to defend the
MacGregor boats and respond to the cynics on ASA who have never sailed
the boat, but nevertheless, know all about it?

Interesting. For my information, just what would someone who DIDN'T
care what others think post on the ASA ng?

Jim



Scott Vernon wrote:

That's the first I've seen the 'M' model. Looks like they took a big step
backwards re the cabin, which looks exactly like the old (pre 'X') 26'. The
hull still has that ugly step in it, and the gross power-boat type
'windows'.
I've seen a few Xs sailing and talked to a few owners who really love them.
They're not bad boats for their purpose (shallow draft/power/sailboat) if
you can get past the look. Not for ocean sailing, though.
If you really want to talk to owners, Sailnet has a Mac mailing list, and
one just for X owners.

It sounds like you're worried what others will think. In that case, stay
away from the Mac.

S.Vernon

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:


SAIL LOCO wrote:



Sounds like a 25 foot power boat with a small cabin might be the best

choice

for your intended use. After the kids grow up and you get tired of

fishing you

can sell the power boat without loosing your ass like you would on the

Mac and

you can buy a real sailboat. This was not a flame.


Sure it is... just one with a healthy dose of reality. The Mac26X (or

"M" if that's

what they are calling it now) PowR-SailR is a choice for people who

can't make up

their minds and don't know much about either motorboats or sailing.

First of all,

the advertising is very misleading. They will not go 24 mph under power,

unless you

either put a bigger motor than it's rated for (and crack the transom

open in 1

season) or strip the boat of all extraneous weight like passengers,

cooler, mast,

etc etc. You're more likely to see 15 ~ 18 mph... which is still a lot

faster than

most sailboats can go in most conditions. But much slower than a real

motorboat,

and the PowR-SailR sails poorly at best... not enjoyable sport IMHO.

If the issue is distance to cover, then either get a boat to keep at a

marina

closer to good sailing grounds and drive 65mph to there, thus saving

large amounts

of time... or get a trailerable boat that can be trailered (again at

65mph)... with

the benefit that you can take it other places as well.

If you're not sure if you like sailing enough to go to all that trouble,

you

probably won't. Get a motorboat (and this isn't intended as an insult,

because I

have a motorboat myself... along with three sailboats).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


Thanks for the suggestions. As noted previously, most of my sailing
experience over the past 25 years has been on larger boats, in the 30-35
ft range, that we chartered for family vacations. We would live aboard
the boats for a week, sailing (sometimes in in some pretty high winds),
swimming, cooking meals and sleeping at anchor. I've had training from
several sailing "schools," including an Annapolis Sailing School nav and
heavy boat handling course. So, although I'm sure there are many more
experienced sailors on this ng, I'm well-aware that such heavier boats
are "better" than the MacGregor in a number of ways, particularly for
blue water sailing. The 40 foot Valiant, for example, had three
mainsail reefing lines led to the cockpit, color coded, such that you
could adjust the main to any desired reefing point without leaving the
cockpit, along with roller furling on the jib, plus a staysail.- It was
stable and fast and great for sailing in blue water, making some 9 knots
with the staysail and jib up. Also, of course, owning a larger,
traditional boat would certainly get me more respect from fellow
sailors, whereas sailing a Mac 26 will make me the subject of continued
ridicule and disdain (I should expect continued comments like: He
doesn't know enough about sailboats to realize what a mistake he
made...").

But for our area and conditions and the anticipated uses of the boat,
I'm not sure that these heavier boats would be the best choice or
provide the greatest enjoyment and satisfaction, which I suppose is the
ultimate criteria. (Remember that I can still charter a variety of
larger boats when desired.) In the Kehmah-Seabrook (Houston) area, we
have some huge marinas with thousands of beautiful sailboats of all
types and sizes. But most of these boats sit in their slips in the
marinas for 99.9 percent of the time. - I have had friends tell me
that, after the initial purchase, they had such difficulty in getting
time to go out and in getting crews to go with them, that the boat sat
there, with ongoing maintenance costs, bottom treatments, marina fees,
insurance, etc., so that they finally sold the boat. In my particular
situation, my former crew (my kids) is not available, and my wife
doesn't seem to be too keen on getting out in anything but ideal
weather. Maybe I could get some of my friends to go, but probably not on
the schedule or frequency I would prefer, and I'm not sure I want to go
out on a large boat by myself, even with roller furling, etc. As
mentioned, we have grandkids who I think would not enjoy the relatively
extended motoring and cruising time entailed in getting a heavy boat to
good sailing areas as is necessary in our area and then back to the
dock. For family outings, the Mac has the advantage that you can anchor
it in shallow water, or beach it on an island, etc. (I'll investigate
other marina choices, however.)

Regarding the new Mac model 26M, several pretty substantial changes have
been made as compared with the 26X model. They include a new hull
design entailing a deeper, heavier, 15 degree bottom, rounded corners at
the sides, a partial lead ballast rather than full water ballast, a
flatter hull, adjustable dagger board rather than pivotable fin keel,
rotatable mast, additional fiberglass and roving, etc. WHETHER OR NOT
these changes are going to be effective in improving the handling and
performance of the boat, they are significant, substantive changes, so I
don't think it is logical or reasonable to describe the handling and
performance of the new M model based on observations or (usually)
hearsay relating to the older models. The interior of the boat is open,
with lots of windows, and gives the impression that you are on a much
larger boat. (The Valiant 40 that we sailed in the gulf had a
traditional interior that was segregated into several cabins, and the
main salon was therefore not exceptionally roomy or bright and
"cheery.") (By the way, the Mac 26 can be powered with a much larger
motor if you want high speeds and water-skiing capability. - I don't
need or want to go over around 18-20mph, which is still three times
faster than most fixed keel boats.) On the other hand, I don't know how
the new boat sails or handles under power, which is why I posted my
questions. Their video of the M and S models saling side-by-side shows
the M model sailing by the older model as if it were standing still.
Again, I don't know if the "race" was rigged, etc. - You might want to
take a look at the video, that can be downloaded from the MacGregor
site.

Meanwhile, I'll also be looking at some of the larger used boats for
sale in our area. Apparently, I can get an older 30-32 Cal, Catalina,
C&C, etc., for about the same price as a fully equipped Mac 26.
Conditions and needed repairs and maintenance are another question, of
course.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

jim, buy the damn thing. nobody but nobody will laugh at you. why should
they?

I'm worried about what others will think? So I continue to defend the
MacGregor boats and respond to the cynics on ASA who have never sailed
the boat, but nevertheless, know all about it?

Interesting. For my information, just what would someone who DIDN'T
care what others think post on the ASA ng?

Jim



Scott Vernon wrote:

That's the first I've seen the 'M' model. Looks like they took a big step
backwards re the cabin, which looks exactly like the old (pre 'X') 26'. The
hull still has that ugly step in it, and the gross power-boat type
'windows'.
I've seen a few Xs sailing and talked to a few owners who really love them.
They're not bad boats for their purpose (shallow draft/power/sailboat) if
you can get past the look. Not for ocean sailing, though.
If you really want to talk to owners, Sailnet has a Mac mailing list, and
one just for X owners.

It sounds like you're worried what others will think. In that case, stay
away from the Mac.

S.Vernon

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:


SAIL LOCO wrote:



Sounds like a 25 foot power boat with a small cabin might be the best

choice

for your intended use. After the kids grow up and you get tired of

fishing you

can sell the power boat without loosing your ass like you would on the

Mac and

you can buy a real sailboat. This was not a flame.


Sure it is... just one with a healthy dose of reality. The Mac26X (or

"M" if that's

what they are calling it now) PowR-SailR is a choice for people who

can't make up

their minds and don't know much about either motorboats or sailing.

First of all,

the advertising is very misleading. They will not go 24 mph under power,

unless you

either put a bigger motor than it's rated for (and crack the transom

open in 1

season) or strip the boat of all extraneous weight like passengers,

cooler, mast,

etc etc. You're more likely to see 15 ~ 18 mph... which is still a lot

faster than

most sailboats can go in most conditions. But much slower than a real

motorboat,

and the PowR-SailR sails poorly at best... not enjoyable sport IMHO.

If the issue is distance to cover, then either get a boat to keep at a

marina

closer to good sailing grounds and drive 65mph to there, thus saving

large amounts

of time... or get a trailerable boat that can be trailered (again at

65mph)... with

the benefit that you can take it other places as well.

If you're not sure if you like sailing enough to go to all that trouble,

you

probably won't. Get a motorboat (and this isn't intended as an insult,

because I

have a motorboat myself... along with three sailboats).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


Thanks for the suggestions. As noted previously, most of my sailing
experience over the past 25 years has been on larger boats, in the 30-35
ft range, that we chartered for family vacations. We would live aboard
the boats for a week, sailing (sometimes in in some pretty high winds),
swimming, cooking meals and sleeping at anchor. I've had training from
several sailing "schools," including an Annapolis Sailing School nav and
heavy boat handling course. So, although I'm sure there are many more
experienced sailors on this ng, I'm well-aware that such heavier boats
are "better" than the MacGregor in a number of ways, particularly for
blue water sailing. The 40 foot Valiant, for example, had three
mainsail reefing lines led to the cockpit, color coded, such that you
could adjust the main to any desired reefing point without leaving the
cockpit, along with roller furling on the jib, plus a staysail.- It was
stable and fast and great for sailing in blue water, making some 9 knots
with the staysail and jib up. Also, of course, owning a larger,
traditional boat would certainly get me more respect from fellow
sailors, whereas sailing a Mac 26 will make me the subject of continued
ridicule and disdain (I should expect continued comments like: He
doesn't know enough about sailboats to realize what a mistake he
made...").

But for our area and conditions and the anticipated uses of the boat,
I'm not sure that these heavier boats would be the best choice or
provide the greatest enjoyment and satisfaction, which I suppose is the
ultimate criteria. (Remember that I can still charter a variety of
larger boats when desired.) In the Kehmah-Seabrook (Houston) area, we
have some huge marinas with thousands of beautiful sailboats of all
types and sizes. But most of these boats sit in their slips in the
marinas for 99.9 percent of the time. - I have had friends tell me
that, after the initial purchase, they had such difficulty in getting
time to go out and in getting crews to go with them, that the boat sat
there, with ongoing maintenance costs, bottom treatments, marina fees,
insurance, etc., so that they finally sold the boat. In my particular
situation, my former crew (my kids) is not available, and my wife
doesn't seem to be too keen on getting out in anything but ideal
weather. Maybe I could get some of my friends to go, but probably not on
the schedule or frequency I would prefer, and I'm not sure I want to go
out on a large boat by myself, even with roller furling, etc. As
mentioned, we have grandkids who I think would not enjoy the relatively
extended motoring and cruising time entailed in getting a heavy boat to
good sailing areas as is necessary in our area and then back to the
dock. For family outings, the Mac has the advantage that you can anchor
it in shallow water, or beach it on an island, etc. (I'll investigate
other marina choices, however.)

Regarding the new Mac model 26M, several pretty substantial changes have
been made as compared with the 26X model. They include a new hull
design entailing a deeper, heavier, 15 degree bottom, rounded corners at
the sides, a partial lead ballast rather than full water ballast, a
flatter hull, adjustable dagger board rather than pivotable fin keel,
rotatable mast, additional fiberglass and roving, etc. WHETHER OR NOT
these changes are going to be effective in improving the handling and
performance of the boat, they are significant, substantive changes, so I
don't think it is logical or reasonable to describe the handling and
performance of the new M model based on observations or (usually)
hearsay relating to the older models. The interior of the boat is open,
with lots of windows, and gives the impression that you are on a much
larger boat. (The Valiant 40 that we sailed in the gulf had a
traditional interior that was segregated into several cabins, and the
main salon was therefore not exceptionally roomy or bright and
"cheery.") (By the way, the Mac 26 can be powered with a much larger
motor if you want high speeds and water-skiing capability. - I don't
need or want to go over around 18-20mph, which is still three times
faster than most fixed keel boats.) On the other hand, I don't know how
the new boat sails or handles under power, which is why I posted my
questions. Their video of the M and S models saling side-by-side shows
the M model sailing by the older model as if it were standing still.
Again, I don't know if the "race" was rigged, etc. - You might want to
take a look at the video, that can be downloaded from the MacGregor
site.

Meanwhile, I'll also be looking at some of the larger used boats for
sale in our area. Apparently, I can get an older 30-32 Cal, Catalina,
C&C, etc., for about the same price as a fully equipped Mac 26.
Conditions and needed repairs and maintenance are another question, of
course.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

The "M" model has a new deep V- hull, an adjustable dagger board keel,
a rotatable mast, additional layers of fiberglass in the hull, SS chain
plates, partial fixed lead ballast, and a number of other changes. -
Whether these changes bring the boat up to acceptable off-shore sailing
standards or not, they ARE substantive differences relative to the
previous model. From discussing the boat with owners and previous
owners, it seems that it's speed and handling under both sail and motor
are significantly improved relative to the previous model. It is
apparently 20-30% faster under similar sails than the X model, and the
deep V hull seems to slice through waves smoothly with little braking or
bouncing, based on the video of the two boats.

My point is not that I know or have evidence to the effect that the M
model is a good sailing and/or motoring vessel. Not at all. It's that,
if we are going to give any consideration whatsoever to the most
fundamental principles of logic, reasoning, clear thinking, etc., then
those who criticize the new boat should preface their remarks by saying
"Jim, to be truthful, I haven't sailed the boat, and I haven't talked to
anyone who has, so actually you should understand that I really don't
know what the Hell I'm talking about."

In the interest of logic and rationality and intellectual honesty, I
think this would clear up most of the confusion and obfuscation that has
been involved in this discussion.

Jim


s I'vefor example,

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Not at all. I think the X version are trash. The M isn't as bad as
that and is capable of sailing on the bay (for example) without
compromising one's safety. It's a different boat.
"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...

Oh please. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.


What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Are you supporting the
Mac26X as a viable vessel?

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Bob,

Can you give me some hints as to which popular boats have good PHRF
ratings? Also, from their specs, it seems that the C&C's have a
relatively short water-line for their length. - Does this limit the hull
speed you get from your 32?

Jim


Bobsprit wrote:

I would appreciate knowing what you and others recommend looking for
under these conditions and in this price range.

Jim, as you can see there are a LOT of used boats around. I tend to follow the
idea that buying a reasonably respectable brand is a good idea. Without that
you could end up stuck with her.
My favorite used boats: Pearson, C&C, Tartan, bristol, Catalina and quite a few
more makes, models and odd designs. You need to get aboard and see what "fits"
and what pleases your eye first and foremost. Learn to read the numbers. Sail
area/Disp. and PHRF ratings are a good initial inidcator for how a design will
treat you under sail. Above all, take your time. There are always compromises,
but you can shave them down. If financial limits have you looking at lesser
boats, perhaps it's worth saving a bit longer. You never know when a magic deal
will float along. My wife and I sold our Pearson 30 when we were married. We
were going to wait 2 or 3 years and then buy a big boat. Then I had the chance
to buy a C&C 32 for 16K. So, while waiting for the "big" boat plan, we still
get to sail a nice boat. I think the watchword is patience. If you're in a
hurry the wrong boat may find YOU! That's happened to at least 2 people in this
group.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

jim, buy the damned thing. nobody is going to laugh at you, and those who do
are just jealous. be a man among men, jim. go for it.

The "M" model has a new deep V- hull, an adjustable dagger board keel,
a rotatable mast, additional layers of fiberglass in the hull, SS chain
plates, partial fixed lead ballast, and a number of other changes. -
Whether these changes bring the boat up to acceptable off-shore sailing
standards or not, they ARE substantive differences relative to the
previous model. From discussing the boat with owners and previous
owners, it seems that it's speed and handling under both sail and motor
are significantly improved relative to the previous model. It is
apparently 20-30% faster under similar sails than the X model, and the
deep V hull seems to slice through waves smoothly with little braking or
bouncing, based on the video of the two boats.

My point is not that I know or have evidence to the effect that the M
model is a good sailing and/or motoring vessel. Not at all. It's that,
if we are going to give any consideration whatsoever to the most
fundamental principles of logic, reasoning, clear thinking, etc., then
those who criticize the new boat should preface their remarks by saying
"Jim, to be truthful, I haven't sailed the boat, and I haven't talked to
anyone who has, so actually you should understand that I really don't
know what the Hell I'm talking about."

In the interest of logic and rationality and intellectual honesty, I
think this would clear up most of the confusion and obfuscation that has
been involved in this discussion.

Jim


s I'vefor example,

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Not at all. I think the X version are trash. The M isn't as bad as
that and is capable of sailing on the bay (for example) without
compromising one's safety. It's a different boat.
"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...

Oh please. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.


What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Are you supporting the
Mac26X as a viable vessel?

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

melges 24. mumm 30. j-22. j-29. j-30. Cape Dory Typhoon. venture 22.
Flicka.

Anything. Buy a boat!

which popular boats have good PHRF
ratings?

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

which popular boats have good PHRF
ratings?

MacGregor 65. An **incredible** PHRF, AND about the same price used as a Mac
26 new.

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Can you give me some hints as to which popular boats have good PHRF
ratings?

It really depends on what you think is "good." When I see a thirty to 33 foot
boat with a rating below 180 or so, I can expect reasonable sailing ability on
the LIS. As for waterlines, my C&C and Pearson have nearly the same WL, but the
C&C is quite a bit faster.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

or maybe he's happy with the boat he has and isn't worried about impressing
people with names

Doubtful.


RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jeff, you have a fine boat, but a Swan or Shannon it aint. Maybe Loco thinks
his Express is on that level or maybe he's never been aboard a 1st class yacht,
which is more probable. .

The Express isn't a Swan but it's a step up from a C&C.


Too bad no one else feels the way you do...and the market reflects it.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Don't pay no never mind to what Squathead Vermin writes. The fool
drives a Sidelmann.

JAX

"Jim Cate" wrote in message ...
I'm worried about what others will think? So I continue to defend the
MacGregor boats and respond to the cynics on ASA who have never sailed
the boat, but nevertheless, know all about it?

Interesting. For my information, just what would someone who DIDN'T
care what others think post on the ASA ng?

Jim



Scott Vernon wrote:

That's the first I've seen the 'M' model. Looks like they took a big step
backwards re the cabin, which looks exactly like the old (pre 'X') 26'. The
hull still has that ugly step in it, and the gross power-boat type
'windows'.
I've seen a few Xs sailing and talked to a few owners who really love them.
They're not bad boats for their purpose (shallow draft/power/sailboat) if
you can get past the look. Not for ocean sailing, though.
If you really want to talk to owners, Sailnet has a Mac mailing list, and
one just for X owners.

It sounds like you're worried what others will think. In that case, stay
away from the Mac.

S.Vernon

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:


SAIL LOCO wrote:



Sounds like a 25 foot power boat with a small cabin might be the best

choice

for your intended use. After the kids grow up and you get tired of

fishing you

can sell the power boat without loosing your ass like you would on the

Mac and

you can buy a real sailboat. This was not a flame.


Sure it is... just one with a healthy dose of reality. The Mac26X (or

"M" if that's

what they are calling it now) PowR-SailR is a choice for people who

can't make up

their minds and don't know much about either motorboats or sailing.

First of all,

the advertising is very misleading. They will not go 24 mph under power,

unless you

either put a bigger motor than it's rated for (and crack the transom

open in 1

season) or strip the boat of all extraneous weight like passengers,

cooler, mast,

etc etc. You're more likely to see 15 ~ 18 mph... which is still a lot

faster than

most sailboats can go in most conditions. But much slower than a real

motorboat,

and the PowR-SailR sails poorly at best... not enjoyable sport IMHO.

If the issue is distance to cover, then either get a boat to keep at a

marina

closer to good sailing grounds and drive 65mph to there, thus saving

large amounts

of time... or get a trailerable boat that can be trailered (again at

65mph)... with

the benefit that you can take it other places as well.

If you're not sure if you like sailing enough to go to all that trouble,

you

probably won't. Get a motorboat (and this isn't intended as an insult,

because I

have a motorboat myself... along with three sailboats).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

The new boat is probably only slightly less of a pig under sail than the old
boat, if you want to verify this, I'm sure you'll find at least one Mac
broker that has an M in stock and will be happy to take you out for a test
sail. I have one of the NE phrf lists, it rates this boat(26X) at 216 which
is probably charitable. You do the math. If it is indeed 20 to 30% faster
than the old model, what would it's rating be?
John Cairns

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
The "M" model has a new deep V- hull, an adjustable dagger board keel,
a rotatable mast, additional layers of fiberglass in the hull, SS chain
plates, partial fixed lead ballast, and a number of other changes. -
Whether these changes bring the boat up to acceptable off-shore sailing
standards or not, they ARE substantive differences relative to the
previous model. From discussing the boat with owners and previous
owners, it seems that it's speed and handling under both sail and motor
are significantly improved relative to the previous model. It is
apparently 20-30% faster under similar sails than the X model,

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

It's not my fault if you're an idiot.

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On 02 Mar 2004 17:52:24 GMT, (Bobsprit) said:

Dave, 5 years ago it was easy to get a C&C 32 for under 30K. They were
often
around for 25-28K. Check the average price now. Two sold on City Island
for mid
30's last season.

I'm not shocked to hear it. Jonathan just seems to have a problem
understanding your point, which I take it has nothing whatever to do with
what the boats cost when new.


Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Speak for yourself.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
It was originally intended to be a high quality, affordable boat.
It still is after 40 years.

No it wasn't.
No one in this newsgroup owns a high quality boat.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

I think a C&C in good condition is a quality boat. Many of the Cals are
quality
boats. I've seen some Swans that were crap boats. Horass' hunter is a crap
boat,
mostly because of him.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
I resent that! My boat was chosen as "one of the world's best sailboats"
by no
less an authority
than Ferenc Mate!


Jeff, you have a fine boat, but a Swan or Shannon it aint. Maybe Loco
thinks
his Express is on that level or maybe he's never been aboard a 1st class
yacht,
which is more probable.

RB