MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

None of those boats can do what the Mac can.


"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
But maybe $30K is a horrendous lot
of money to you, Jax?


It's a horendous amount for THAT boat. 30K can buy....

A J30 and a J24
Two Pearson 30s
A C&C 30 late model
A Catalina 30 late 80's
A Bristol 29.5

And so on....

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

None of those boats can do what the Mac can.


Let's not turn this into a silly debate. We all know what the Mac26x is and
that a great many buyers are probably never fully aware of how poor a boat it
really is.
True, I've only been aboard two and only spoke to three different owners, but
none of them were overly pleased with the boat. I'm sure some people love them,
just like my dad loved his AMC Pacer. But he never thought it was really a
"good" car.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

that's 1


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
None of those boats can do what the Mac can.


What's that? Flex the hull when you pull on the shrouds?

It's a horendous amount for THAT boat. 30K can buy....

A J30 and a J24
Two Pearson 30s
A C&C 30 late model
A Catalina 30 late 80's
A Bristol 29.5

And so on....

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

some of my non-sailing friends think Hunters are great boats with a great
rep. Name recognition, I guess.


As Marc (He sails a Freedom) will attest, the newer DS models from Hunter are
okay looking and quite nice. The fit and finish is pretty good, a LOT better
than Beneteau. A lot of folks probaby dockside condoize them, but they actually
seem to sail reasonably well.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

So , I win?


"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
None of those boats can do what the Mac can.


Let's not turn this into a silly debate. We all know what the Mac26x is
and
that a great many buyers are probably never fully aware of how poor a boat
it
really is.
True, I've only been aboard two and only spoke to three different owners,
but
none of them were overly pleased with the boat. I'm sure some people love
them,
just like my dad loved his AMC Pacer. But he never thought it was really a
"good" car.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Stop it Bob, you're freaking me out.

SV

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
some of my non-sailing friends think Hunters are great boats with a great
rep. Name recognition, I guess.


As Marc (He sails a Freedom) will attest, the newer DS models from Hunter
are
okay looking and quite nice. The fit and finish is pretty good, a LOT
better
than Beneteau. A lot of folks probaby dockside condoize them, but they
actually
seem to sail reasonably well.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Hi Bob, congrats on the good news. Was out on my slip neighbors 426 DS
on Sunday. He has a FULL cockpit enclosure. It was like sailing a
solarium. Absolutely no sensation of movement until we had to reef as
the wind picked up off of the Ambrose racon. Broad reached back into
the harbor at 10 kn. These boats do move and sail well.



On 01 Mar 2004 23:36:20 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

some of my non-sailing friends think Hunters are great boats with a great
rep. Name recognition, I guess.


As Marc (He sails a Freedom) will attest, the newer DS models from Hunter are
okay looking and quite nice. The fit and finish is pretty good, a LOT better
than Beneteau. A lot of folks probaby dockside condoize them, but they actually
seem to sail reasonably well.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Hi Bob, congrats on the good news. Was out on my slip neighbors 426 DS
on Sunday. He has a FULL cockpit enclosure. It was like sailing a
solarium. Absolutely no sensation of movement until we had to reef as
the wind picked up off of the Ambrose racon. Broad reached back into
the harbor at 10 kn. These boats do move and sail well.


Thanks, Marc. We're dropping Alien in in about 4 weeks or so. You're welcome
aboard any time.
I still prefer your boat to the Hunter, but I can certainly see the DS appeal.
Are you all set for the new season?

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

I praised a hunter once, but that was because my old boss had
one and I was trying to suck up to him for a raise.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
You're a brave man to admit that here.

hey, I was briefly considered a Hunter. But I was younger then.


I'll admit to having briefly considered a Mac,

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Bob wins. You know that.

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
So , I win?


"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
None of those boats can do what the Mac can.


Let's not turn this into a silly debate. We all know what the Mac26x is
and
that a great many buyers are probably never fully aware of how poor a
boat
it
really is.
True, I've only been aboard two and only spoke to three different
owners,
but
none of them were overly pleased with the boat. I'm sure some people
love
them,
just like my dad loved his AMC Pacer. But he never thought it was really
a
"good" car.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


In my particular
situation, my former crew (my kids) is not available, and my wife
doesn't seem to be too keen on getting out in anything but ideal
weather. Maybe I could get some of my friends to go, but probably not on
the schedule or frequency I would prefer, and I'm not sure I want to go
out on a large boat by myself, even with roller furling, etc. As
mentioned, we have grandkids who I think would not enjoy the relatively
extended motoring and cruising time entailed in getting a heavy boat to
good sailing areas as is necessary in our area and then back to the
dock. For family outings, the Mac has the advantage that you can anchor
it in shallow water, or beach it on an island, etc. (I'll investigate
other marina choices, however.)

I changed from power to sail because I had young crew.

I found that high speed motoring only gave pleasure to the driver. The
initial thrill wears off very quickly for the rest of the crew.

With a sailing vessel, you can assign tasks to younger crew. They will be
able to excel at these tasks, and earn praise, which helps them to enjoy the
activity, and IMHO, is very good for them.

You may find that you can do this on a MAC 26M, but I suspect that you would
use the power to travel a bit further afield.

Also, are there usually waves in the area that you plan to use the boat?
I don't think that it would be very comfortable doing even 15 kts, in such a
light boat, unless the water was almost flat calm.


Regards


Donal
--

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

We looked at a few H25, & 27s, but decided the Mac (not an "X") was a better
boat for our needs, at the time.

Scotty


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
I praised a hunter once, but that was because my old boss had
one and I was trying to suck up to him for a raise.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
You're a brave man to admit that here.

hey, I was briefly considered a Hunter. But I was younger then.


I'll admit to having briefly considered a Mac,

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Not any more. I think AOL said he couldn't play anymore.

Scotty

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Bob wins. You know that.

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
So , I win?


"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
None of those boats can do what the Mac can.


Let's not turn this into a silly debate. We all know what the Mac26x
is
and
that a great many buyers are probably never fully aware of how poor a
boat
it
really is.
True, I've only been aboard two and only spoke to three different
owners,
but
none of them were overly pleased with the boat. I'm sure some people
love
them,
just like my dad loved his AMC Pacer. But he never thought it was
really
a
"good" car.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

"Dave" wrote

When you reach my age,

which is?


At the time I was thinking about how happy the wife would be to be able to
scoot back in ahead of a t'storm.

Yes, they sound like a good, does it all boat, on paper. But then when you
really see one. Ugh!

What's a CS?




Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

There's a much-ballyhoo'ed PHRF rating on them of around 215, which was
given to
a Mac dealer on the Chesapeake who sailed it with 3 guys on trapezes, a
masthead
spinnaker, and no water ballast.

You must be refering to that wack job Jim down in Mayo.


S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

That would be a HC.

You got Fs in English, right?

SV

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:57:11 -0500, "Scott Vernon"
wrote:


What's a CS?



Holy Crap!

BB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

I see your math is no better than your English.


wrote in message
...
On 01 Mar 2004 23:15:48 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

But maybe $30K is a horrendous lot
of money to you, Jax?


It's a horendous amount for THAT boat. 30K can buy....

A J30 and a J24
Two Pearson 30s
A C&C 30 late model
A Catalina 30 late 80's
A Bristol 29.5

And so on....

RB

or an even dozen Sidelmanns!

BB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

After reading the numerous responses to my note, I conclude that: (1) No
one has sailed the new 26M extensively, and no one so far has any real
experience with or knowledge about the 26M Model; and (2) This doesn't
stop most responders from confidently and dogmatically telling me abpit
all the shortcomings of the 26M (which they have never seen, much less
sailed). In contrast, those I have talked with elsewhere who HAVE
actually sailed and motered the boat are quite impressed with it. What
seems to be overlooked repeatedly is that if I bought the Mac, I could
still charter a number of larger vessels for offshore cruising. In
discussions such as this, it seems to me that it's important to approach
the issues logically and with balanced consideration of all the related
issues. - So far, I see very little logic and lots of emotional ranting
and raving and put-downs of someone some apparently percieved as as a
convenient (novice) target. Nevertheless, I appreciate the helpful
suggestions and comments of those who have some useful information for
me to consider. Again, I can still charter some fine, heavy boats when
going offshore. And one more time..... I can still charter a wide
selection of heavy boats when going offshore.
Jim

Jim Cate wrote:

I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the Galveston-Houston
area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or sailed
on the boat. Or, anyone else.

For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have some
advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and doing
some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can therefore
get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
than a fixed keel boat. This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests. Also, in view of the
hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the boat's
ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
islands, would be an obvious advantage. (The 40-foot Valiant, although
a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots under
motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina to
the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
finder.)

OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice. Also,
the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. - It
now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel (which
I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the years.
As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is clearly
much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the video.)
With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat; it
can reportedly plane under sail.

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used 30
- 32-foot boats.

Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring characteristics
of the new 26M would be appreciated.

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

I know it's a Candjun boat, but what does CS stand for?

Scotty


wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:52:07 -0500, "Scott Vernon"
wrote:

That would be a HC.

You got Fs in English, right?


You really don't know what a CS is? Again, I say Holy Crap!

BB


SV

wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:57:11 -0500, "Scott Vernon"
wrote:


What's a CS?



Holy Crap!

BB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Jim Cate wrote:

After reading the numerous responses to my note, I conclude that: (1) No
one has sailed the new 26M extensively, and no one so far has any real
experience with or knowledge about the 26M Model; and (2) This doesn't
stop most responders from confidently and dogmatically telling me abpit
all the shortcomings of the 26M (which they have never seen, much less
sailed).

Are you related to JAXAshby? Your reading comprehension is a bit dim.

At least two people told you that they had indeed seen them, including seeing
them sailing. Is real life good enough for you?

DSK

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

In that case.... he wins! (get the logic?)

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Not any more. I think AOL said he couldn't play anymore.

Scotty

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Bob wins. You know that.

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
So , I win?


"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
None of those boats can do what the Mac can.


Let's not turn this into a silly debate. We all know what the Mac26x
is
and
that a great many buyers are probably never fully aware of how poor
a
boat
it
really is.
True, I've only been aboard two and only spoke to three different
owners,
but
none of them were overly pleased with the boat. I'm sure some people
love
them,
just like my dad loved his AMC Pacer. But he never thought it was
really
a
"good" car.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

I've forgotten... what kind of boat do you own? Do you
think it'll go up in value?

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:52:45 -0500, "Scott Vernon"
wrote:

I see your math is no better than your English.



You are right! $30k would probably get you at least 15 or more Sidelmanns
in
today's market. They sure aren't ever going to go UP in value.

BB


wrote in message
.. .
On 01 Mar 2004 23:15:48 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

But maybe $30K is a horrendous lot
of money to you, Jax?


It's a horendous amount for THAT boat. 30K can buy....

A J30 and a J24
Two Pearson 30s
A C&C 30 late model
A Catalina 30 late 80's
A Bristol 29.5

And so on....

RB

or an even dozen Sidelmanns!

BB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Doug.. let him buy the damn thing. One learns best from experience.

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Jim Cate wrote:

After reading the numerous responses to my note, I conclude that: (1) No
one has sailed the new 26M extensively, and no one so far has any real
experience with or knowledge about the 26M Model; and (2) This doesn't
stop most responders from confidently and dogmatically telling me abpit
all the shortcomings of the 26M (which they have never seen, much less
sailed).

Are you related to JAXAshby? Your reading comprehension is a bit dim.

At least two people told you that they had indeed seen them, including
seeing
them sailing. Is real life good enough for you?

DSK

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

I've forgotten... what kind of boat do you own? Do you
think it'll go up in value?


C&Cs have, in fact, risen in value since the company's new incarnation took
flight.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Thank you. Nice looking boat.

SV

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:09:41 -0500, "Scott Vernon"
said:

I know it's a Candjun boat, but what does CS stand for?

Canadian Sailing.


Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

I kinda doubt that they've exceeded their original cost in today's dollars.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
I've forgotten... what kind of boat do you own? Do you
think it'll go up in value?


C&Cs have, in fact, risen in value since the company's new incarnation
took
flight.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

After reading the numerous responses to my note, I conclude that: (1) No
one has sailed the new 26M extensively,

That alone should tell you something.


S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

I kinda doubt that they've exceeded their original cost in today's dollars.

All I know is that they cost more now than they did 6 years ago on the used
market. In general I find C&Cs to be overpriced.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

DSK wrote:
Jim Cate wrote:


After reading the numerous responses to my note, I conclude that: (1) No
one has sailed the new 26M extensively, and no one so far has any real
experience with or knowledge about the 26M Model; and (2) This doesn't
stop most responders from confidently and dogmatically telling me abpit
all the shortcomings of the 26M (which they have never seen, much less
sailed).


Are you related to JAXAshby? Your reading comprehension is a bit dim.

At least two people told you that they had indeed seen them, including seeing
them sailing. Is real life good enough for you?

DSK


DSK,

You need to read the notes you respond to more carefully. What I said was:

After reading the numerous responses to my note, I conclude that: (1) No
one has sailed the new 26M extensively, and no one so far has any REAL
EXPERIENCE with or knowledge of the 26M MODEL; and (2) This doesn't stop
MOST responders from confidently and dogmatically telling me all about
the shortcomings of the 26M (which they have never seen, much less
sailed). In contrast, those I have talked with elsewhere who HAVE
actually sailed and motored the boat are quite impressed with it

DSK, note in particular the word "most" in the above sentence. Also note
my further statement, that you didn't quote, expressing apprecation for
the helpful information provided by some on the ng. (Incidentally, you
can get reading glasses at most pharmacies these days for under $20.)

Jim

Jim

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

I think the guy is bi-polar just like the boat he is asking about.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

SAIL LOCO wrote:
I think the guy is bi-polar just like the boat he is asking about.

The funny thing is, he came here to ask advice (more than once
actually), and is walking away thinking it's somebody else who's the
dummy in this picture.

DSK

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

You need to read the notes you respond to more carefully. What I said was:


Jim, while this group can offer valid and often helpful advice, they soon tire
of a subject and turn to school yard in-fighting. It's been the nature of
Alt.Sailing.Asa for some years now. It's up to you if you want to take any of
it seriously.
The Mac line of power sailors is generally considered by MANY to be ugly, cheap
and poor sailing boats. They are also expensive for what they are. I was aboard
a new M at the AC Boat show (I didn't even know it wasn't called the 26X
anymore). It was a laughable excuse for a power or sailboat. I was told it
could do nearly 25 knots, though 3 foot chop would cut that by a 3rd. A 3rd?
Such a loss of performance from moderate chop is indicative of design limits
too steep for my blood.
Few people, other than a Mac owner will encourage you to buy one. While it may
be the "best" compromise between power and sail, the trade offs are downright
offensive to sailors. If you have sailed good sailboats, I seriously think
you'll be dissapointed in the Mac and regret buying one.

Best of Luck,

Robert B
C&C 32, Alien
NY

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

What did Porta Scotty's Siedlemann go for new? What would it reasonably bring
today.


I know of two Siedlemann 30s that sold for 4 and 7K. The one for 4K was
actually pretty clean and had new electronics. The one for 7K had deck problems
($$) after a few years that left her high and dry. She's at Harlem YC if anyone
wants her. They are nearly impossible to sell. There's a larger model at
Styvesant Yacht club (33 or 34?) that simply can't be sold.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

What
did your Cal20 go for new? What would it resonably sell for today?


The Cal20 is a bargain basement boat, but it's also a minor classic that
deserves some respect, I think. It's value is well beyond it's cost and Cal was
a good builder much of the time.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

On 02 Mar 2004 00:15:41 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

This could be considered a classic definition of "Damning with Faint
Praise"
I still prefer your boat to the Hunter, but I can certainly see the DS appeal.
Are you all set for the new season?
Got a lot still to do. About a dozen technical items and then cleanup,
wax and paint. If the weather cooperates, I'll splash 1st week of
April.

The head project is finished. I rented a special electric hose end
heater from Sealand to facilitate the instalation of their "Odorsafe"
hose. Between that and barbless fittings, an impossible job was made
possible.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

This could be considered a classic definition of "Damning with Faint
Praise"
I still prefer your boat to the Hunter, but I can certainly see the DS appeal.

Are you all set for the new season?


Not at all. I don't really care for the Hunter line and probably would never
buy one. BUT...I think the newer boats have made a big jump up in quality and
have Beneteau and Catalina scrambling. Still, I rather have a Catalina.
Beneteau slaps boats together and I would sooner own a Siedlemann.
I have a nice new dodger coming for Alien and a Zip-On awning. I didn't go for
the bimini because it looked awful in the pics and sketches. Other than making
a new hatchboard, putting in a new depth sounder and a little teak work...all
set to go!

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

The new reformed & warned "Bobsprit" wrote


Jim, while this group can offer valid and often helpful advice, they soon
tire
of a subject and turn to school yard in-fighting. It's been the nature of
Alt.Sailing.Asa for some years now. It's up to you if you want to take any
of
it seriously.

Which you are 85% responsible for yourself.



The Mac line of power sailors is generally considered by MANY to be ugly,
cheap
and poor sailing boats. They are also expensive for what they are.


Yet they are the best selling sailboat in history.


I was aboard
a new M at the AC Boat show (I didn't even know it wasn't called the 26X
anymore). It was a laughable excuse for a power or sailboat.


You could tell this at the boat show?

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

Hey stupid, don't you know what I paid? Everybody else does. Do a Google,
if you're capable. And while you're at it, learn how to use a spell check.

Scotty

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:39:33 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"

wrote:

I've forgotten... what kind of boat do you own? Do you
think it'll go up in value?


My boat model's average retail is slightly higher today than the original
selling price... And don't worry about today's dollar versus 1986 dollars.
During those years, I've taken equity in the form of use out of the boat
that
more than makes up for inflation. Nobody goes sailing to save money,
anyway.

What did Porta Scotty's Siedlemann go for new? What would it reasonably
bring
today. Don't forget to factor in that Scotty probably paid too much for
it. What
did your Cal20 go for new? What would it resonably sell for today?

BB

wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:52:45 -0500, "Scott Vernon"
wrote:

I see your math is no better than your English.



You are right! $30k would probably get you at least 15 or more
Sidelmanns
in
today's market. They sure aren't ever going to go UP in value.

BB


wrote in message
.. .
On 01 Mar 2004 23:15:48 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

But maybe $30K is a horrendous lot
of money to you, Jax?


It's a horendous amount for THAT boat. 30K can buy....

A J30 and a J24
Two Pearson 30s
A C&C 30 late model
A Catalina 30 late 80's
A Bristol 29.5

And so on....

RB

or an even dozen Sidelmanns!

BB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

sniff, sniff, smells like a troll.........better be careful bob.

SV

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
What did Porta Scotty's Siedlemann go for new? What would it reasonably
bring
today.


I know of two Siedlemann 30s that sold for 4 and 7K. The one for 4K was
actually pretty clean and had new electronics. The one for 7K had deck
problems
($$) after a few years that left her high and dry. She's at Harlem YC if
anyone
wants her. They are nearly impossible to sell. There's a larger model at
Styvesant Yacht club (33 or 34?) that simply can't be sold.

RB

MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
 

sniff, sniff, smells like a troll.........better be careful bob.


Sorry, Scotty. When it comes to the Siedlemann's, the "truth" may sound like a
troll, but it sadly isn't.
I'm glad you're happy with your boat. I still think you'd have done well to
listen to the comments on the boat which pointed out that the line was poorly
regarded.
Maybe you have a "good one" and I certainly hope so. If you're seeking a larger
version of your boat, contact me direct. The one on City Island has been
sitting for years, unwanted. My J24 sailing friend, seeking a larger boat,
inquired about it and EVERYONE at the club warned her away from Siedlemanns.
They are not free or ultra cheap for no reason, Scotty.

RB