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MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote... So you're not straight? Oh boy!! -- |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Jimbo, did you ask your silly questions on the Mac list, like I suggested?
SV "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jonathan Ganz wrote: Well, Jhim, the facts are that you already bought your boat, and were looking here for some sort of validation. Nope. I hadn't bought the boat until last week, and I was hoping to get some information from someone who had sailed the 26M, or who has spoken with someone who had sailed the 26M, or who knew someting about it. You didn't get it, decided no one responded properly, then decided to get on your high horse about lack of response. Wrong again! I read all the asinine, opinionated comments from contributors such as yourself and discovered that the Mac-bashers had very little of substance to to say. Lots of crap, lots of biased opinionating, but very little actual information. Sounds to me like you're the one who needs to press the down arrow. I mean the lever on the toilet. You're clearly dumb and an asshole, but not a winner there either. Since you don't like what I have to say, feel free to filter me out. I've been here a long time. I'll be here long after you're sick of your crackerjack box boat and have to sell it at a huge loss. It's your choice as to whether you want to continue reading or responding to my notes. But don't hold your breath expecting me to fold, or run away. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Scotty asked:
If *what* takes 2,3,6 months? For us to "accept" him and his Mac as viable alternatives to sailing.... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Oh. That will NEVER happen.
NEVER. SV "katysails" wrote in message ... Scotty asked: If *what* takes 2,3,6 months? For us to "accept" him and his Mac as viable alternatives to sailing.... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Scotty, it's time to stop drinking. You're starting to get confused.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... "Jonathan Ganz" wrote... So you're not straight? Oh boy!! -- |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Scott Vernon wrote: Can't you sail out to your ''blue water''? I have motored and sailed out to the blue water off Galveston, but it takes around five-six hours. Most of the distance is in the Houston ship channel, which isn't a pleasant sailing area. Most boat owners in this area (Kemah-Seabrook, located between Houston and Galveston) seem to prefer sailing in Galveston bay rather than going down to Galveston. - This area is the third most popular boating center in the country, in terms of vessels kept in marinas in the area. I understand that it's a matter of convenience, in that they can get to their boats more conveniently, and safety, in that the boats are more sheltered from weather extremes. Jim SV "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... DSK wrote: Jim Cate wrote: In our area, some of the many "obvious advantages" include the ability to get out to good sailing waters, sail for half a day, and return to port within a few hours. Umm, no. The "obvious advantage" here is that you can get shaken and deafened while putt-putting out into more open water, then bobbing around with (or without, doesn't make much difference) sail up, then reversing the process. So, it would be better for me to get a larger, keel boat that takes 5 hours to "ROAR" out to the good sailing water, and then another 5 hours to "ROAR" back to home port? Under that scenario, When do we start having fun? How long to I have to listen to that diesel? Jim A few days ago I went sailing around our marina. Slaloming among the outer pilings is fun. "Good sailing waters" is where good sailors sail. ... If you can only sail on weekends, that's an "obvious advantage" over a boat that takes six hours to motor to a good sailing area, and six hours to motor back. You've been sold a bill of goods. You either should 1- keep the boat closer to where you want to sail or 2- get a boat that can be enjoyably sailed in waters a practical distance away. There are many solutions to every problem, and the one you've fixed on is a rather poor one IMHO. Meanwhile, you get to ride around on your new boat (did you get red or blue?) while subsidizing your local Macgregor dealers lifestyle. Enjoy. Actually, I'm one of the fortunate few who will be able to get delivery of this spectacular new boat this year. Most of their production for the year has already been commited. (I'm getting the white model.) FBhis Doug King |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
katysails wrote: Scotty asked: If *what* takes 2,3,6 months? For us to "accept" him and his Mac as viable alternatives to sailing.... Nope. I'll be here for whatever time it takes for you to come to the realization that you aren't going to intimidate me or drive me away. Get used to the idea that not all Mac owners are easy targes who will cave under the usual Mac-Bashing. Give it up, Katy. You're just wasting everyone's time. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Jonathan Ganz wrote: Yes, Mac "enthusiasts" are easy targets, like shooting fish in a barrel, because anyone dumb enough to buy one isn't much of a sailor. I for one have no problem with you sticking around. Sometimes even shooting fish in a barrel is good, clean fun. Also, you might learn something and then decide to sell that piece of crap and get a real boat. Many of us have been here for years. So far, you haven't proven yourself to be anything more than a dummy, and a temporary one at that. Really? If I'm that stupid and my notes are that insignificant, why is this discussion string the most extensive on the ng, with over 400 responses? Why, after a few days of responses, would any rational person want to waste his time continuing to respond to a complete dummy, as you describe me, over and over again, ad nauseum? In case you hadn't noticed, your actions aren't consistent with your words. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
katysails wrote: Jim boasted: By May 10-15 I should be able to take her out under varying conditions, and I'll post sone further reports. I would suggest 30-40not conditions with some 15 footers....make sure you take a life raft.... Katy, what are 30-40not conditions? I don't think I've ever seen any of those "not" conditions. - But I'll keep an eye out for them. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Jonathan Ganz wrote: Well fool, since it was pretty clear that no one has the information you're looking for then I don't really understand why you keep posting about your bad purchase. Perhaps you can explain it? It seems to me you just type the same crap over and over, expecting to get a cordial response? Either you're stupid or a troll. You pick. ________________________________________-- As long as you keep posting the same crap over and over again, my responses will be also be rather repetitive. My response to your first stupid remarks remains appropriate for your more recent stupid remarks. (But, of course, there's no law requiring you to continue to read my notes or to respond to them.) As posted above, if I'm really that stupid and my notes are that insignificant, why is this discussion string the most extensive on the ng, with over 400 responses? Why, after a few days of responses, would any rational person want to waste his time continuing to respond to a complete dummy, as you describe me, over and over again, ad nauseum? In case you hadn't noticed, your actions aren't consistent with your words. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Jonathan Ganz wrote: Bull. You bought it weeks ago That's a God damned lie. and are now trying to justify the purchase. Don't start lying already. It's not worth it. If we have nothing of substance to say, then why are you still listening. I think you're going to stay around just long enough to pop a cork... look out folks, he's almost there! |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Scott Vernon wrote: Jimbo, did you ask your silly questions on the Mac list, like I suggested? SV Yes. The great majority on the Mac lists have one of the the older models. I did correspond with and speak with some 26M owners. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Yup.
"Jim Cate" wrote As long as I keep posting the same crap over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over 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and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and again, I'll look like a fool. Jim MacGregor |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
JAXAshby wrote: However, they (mac 26's) entail certain obvious advantages for sailing not that anyone but you can see. Whether or not the Valiant is a "better" boat depends on your particular criteria, however. With respect to safety for coastal cruising, the Mac seems to have several advantages. (1) - If the lower hull is compromised, the inner hull remains. (2) If both hulls are compromised, or if the side hull is penetrated as in a collision, the integrated flotation keeps the Mac afloat. By contrast, if the hull of the Valiant (or other keep boats) is compromised, or if the through-hulls leak, or if substantial water enters the boat for some other reason, the keel of the Valiant will quickly pull it to the bottom. In this respect, the MacGregor is a "better" boat. (Galveston-Houston has its share of drunk red-necks racing around the bays at 60 mph while downing another six-pack.) (3) Regarding access to good sailing areas, the MacGregor can plane out to the desired sailing are at around 15-18 knots, whereas the Valiant, while considered relatively fast, only make around 7-8 knots under power. So, with respect to convenience, and ability to get to a preferred sailing area within a given day or weekend, the MacGregor is a "better" boat. (4) The ability to return to port quickly, ahead of impending weather, is also a safety factor in the Mac. When we sailed the Valiant, there were several channels in the Galveston area that weren't clearly marked and in which we could not maneuver safely at low tide. So, we had to turn back from a preferred anchorage we were trying to reach. In contrast, the dagger board of the MacGregor can be raised incrementally as desired, with a minimum draft of around 18 inches. Again, with respect to its ability to maneuver in shallow or unmarked channels, or to anchor in shallow water, or beach on shore to permit grandkids to play on the sand, the MacGregor is a "better" boat, since the Valiant must be kept in much deeper water and doesn't have the versatility of the Mac for such shallow water activities. I have no doubt that the Valiant has better sailing characteristics, will point higher, and would be more comfortable in heavy weather. - In that sense, it is a "better" boat than the MacGregor (although I understand that the MacGregor can actually plane under sail and may therefore be faster under sail in some conditions). (5) However, if I can't get out to the blue water on weekends because of the requisite hours of motoring time it takes to get from our area to the blue water, then the fine sailing characteristics of the Valiant wouldn't be of much benefit to me. (With the exception of being able to talk about it on the newsgroup.) Under those circumstances, if I could only get out once or twice a year, it may make more sense to charter a larger boat for extended cruising when I can time off for a week or so. Again, an evaluation of the quality of the boat depends on the criteria used in the evaluation, and how the boat will be used. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
"Jim Cate" wrote I'll be here for whatever time it takes for you to come to the realization that you aren't going to intimidate me or drive me away. Then you'll die here. Get used to the idea that I'm just wasting everyone's time. Jim Yup. |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Sailors describe wind speed in 'knots', Mac 26M drivers use 'MPH'.
SV "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... I would suggest 30-40not conditions with some 15 footers....make sure you take a life raft.... Katy, what are 30-40not conditions? I don't think I've ever seen any of those "not" conditions. - But I'll keep an eye out for them. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Jonathan Ganz wrote: Nah, his ego is way too big for that. He bought a loser, now he has to justify it. Johathan, the following note lists five advantages of the Mac 26M, while recognizing some of its limitations and disadvantages. How about addressing some of such substantive issues, rather than posting more ridiculous personal attacks? Whether or not the Valiant is a "better" boat depends on your particular criteria, however. With respect to safety for coastal cruising, the Mac seems to have several advantages. (1) - If the lower hull is compromised, the inner hull remains. (2) If both hulls are compromised, or if the side hull is penetrated as in a collision, the integrated flotation keeps the Mac afloat. By contrast, if the hull of the Valiant (or other keep boats) is compromised, or if the through-hulls leak, or if substantial water enters the boat for some other reason, the keel of the Valiant will quickly pull it to the bottom. In this respect, the MacGregor is a "better" boat. (Galveston-Houston has its share of drunk red-necks racing around the bays at 60 mph while downing another six-pack.) (3) Regarding access to good sailing areas, the MacGregor can plane out to the desired sailing are at around 15-18 knots, whereas the Valiant, while considered relatively fast, only make around 7-8 knots under power. So, with respect to convenience, and ability to get to a preferred sailing area within a given day or weekend, the MacGregor is a "better" boat. (4) The ability to return to port quickly, ahead of impending weather, is also a safety factor in the Mac. When we sailed the Valiant, there were several channels in the Galveston area that weren't clearly marked and in which we could not maneuver safely at low tide. So, we had to turn back from a preferred anchorage we were trying to reach. In contrast, the dagger board of the MacGregor can be raised incrementally as desired, with a minimum draft of around 18 inches. Again, with respect to its ability to maneuver in shallow or unmarked channels, or to anchor in shallow water, or beach on shore to permit grandkids to play on the sand, the MacGregor is a "better" boat, since the Valiant must be kept in much deeper water and doesn't have the versatility of the Mac for such shallow water activities. I have no doubt that the Valiant has better sailing characteristics, will point higher, and would be more comfortable in heavy weather. - In that sense, it is a "better" boat than the MacGregor (although I understand that the MacGregor can actually plane under sail and may therefore be faster under sail in some conditions). (5) However, if I can't get out to the blue water on weekends because of the requisite hours of motoring time it takes to get from our area to the blue water, then the fine sailing characteristics of the Valiant wouldn't be of much benefit to me. (With the exception of being able to talk about it on the newsgroup.) Under those circumstances, if I could only get out once or twice a year, it may make more sense to charter a larger boat for extended cruising when I can time off for a week or so. Again, an evaluation of the quality of the boat depends on the criteria used in the evaluation, and how the boat will be used. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
katysails wrote: Jax cried: SPAM!! I'm of the opinion that the guy is a MacGregor infiltrate, sent by the company to turn the attention of the group on their sorry product... Katy, the following note lists five advantages of the Mac 26M, while recognizing some of its limitations and disadvantages. How about addressing some of these substantive issues, rather than posting more ridiculous, childish personal attacks? Whether or not the Valiant is a "better" boat depends on your particular criteria, however. With respect to safety for coastal cruising, the Mac seems to have several advantages. (1) - If the lower hull is compromised, the inner hull remains. (2) If both hulls are compromised, or if the side hull is penetrated as in a collision, the integrated flotation keeps the Mac afloat. By contrast, if the hull of the Valiant (or other keep boats) is compromised, or if the through-hulls leak, or if substantial water enters the boat for some other reason, the keel of the Valiant will quickly pull it to the bottom. In this respect, the MacGregor is a "better" boat. (Galveston-Houston has its share of drunk red-necks racing around the bays at 60 mph while downing another six-pack.) (3) Regarding access to good sailing areas, the MacGregor can plane out to the desired sailing are at around 15-18 knots, whereas the Valiant, while considered relatively fast, only make around 7-8 knots under power. So, with respect to convenience, and ability to get to a preferred sailing area within a given day or weekend, the MacGregor is a "better" boat. (4) The ability to return to port quickly, ahead of impending weather, is also a safety factor in the Mac. When we sailed the Valiant, there were several channels in the Galveston area that weren't clearly marked and in which we could not maneuver safely at low tide. So, we had to turn back from a preferred anchorage we were trying to reach. In contrast, the dagger board of the MacGregor can be raised incrementally as desired, with a minimum draft of around 18 inches. Again, with respect to its ability to maneuver in shallow or unmarked channels, or to anchor in shallow water, or beach on shore to permit grandkids to play on the sand, the MacGregor is a "better" boat, since the Valiant must be kept in much deeper water and doesn't have the versatility of the Mac for such shallow water activities. I have no doubt that the Valiant has better sailing characteristics, will point higher, and would be more comfortable in heavy weather. - In that sense, it is a "better" boat than the MacGregor (although I understand that the MacGregor can actually plane under sail and may therefore be faster under sail in some conditions). (5) However, if I can't get out to the blue water on weekends because of the requisite hours of motoring time it takes to get from our area to the blue water, then the fine sailing characteristics of the Valiant wouldn't be of much benefit to me. (With the exception of being able to talk about it on the newsgroup.) Under those circumstances, if I could only get out once or twice a year, it may make more sense to charter a larger boat for extended cruising when I can time off for a week or so. Again, an evaluation of the quality of the boat depends on the criteria used in the evaluation, and how the boat will be used. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
"Jim Cate" wrote
Really? If I'm that stupid and my notes are that insignificant, why is this discussion string the most extensive on the ng, with over 400 responses? The 'ol bobspit ploy, start a stupid troll, keep fueling it with dumber than **** remarks, then claim to 'WIN' because ''his thread'' has the most posts. Yup, you're a winner Jim, you and bob****, a couple of winners. SV |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Then why are you still here?
"Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Scott Vernon wrote: Jimbo, did you ask your silly questions on the Mac list, like I suggested? SV Yes. The great majority on the Mac lists have one of the the older models. I did correspond with and speak with some 26M owners. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
are you under the impression that a mac26 is double hulled?
SV "Jim Cate" wrote 6 times... (1) - If the lower hull is compromised, the inner hull remains. |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Sure, I'm bored Jhm.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jonathan Ganz wrote: Nah, his ego is way too big for that. He bought a loser, now he has to justify it. Johathan, the following note lists five advantages of the Mac 26M, while recognizing some of its limitations and disadvantages. How about addressing some of such substantive issues, rather than posting more ridiculous personal attacks? Whether or not the Valiant is a "better" boat depends on your particular criteria, however. With respect to safety for coastal cruising, the Mac seems to have several advantages. (1) - If the lower hull is compromised, the inner hull remains. Get a catamaran or trimaran. Not only will you sail faster on most points of sail, you can't sink them, you'll have the same if not more room below, they don't heel much, so guests will feel safe. They require less engine power to move, thus less fuel, noise, etc. Tris and some cats can be trailered. They cost a bit more, but you could easily find a used one in great shape for the same or less than a piece of junk Mac26(who cares). (2) If both hulls are compromised, or if the side hull is penetrated as in a collision, the integrated flotation keeps the Mac afloat. By contrast, if the hull of the Valiant (or other keep boats) is compromised, or if the through-hulls leak, or if substantial water enters the boat for some other reason, the keel of the Valiant will quickly pull it to the bottom. In this respect, the MacGregor is a "better" boat. (Galveston-Houston has its share of drunk red-necks racing around the bays at 60 mph while downing another six-pack.) See #1. (3) Regarding access to good sailing areas, the MacGregor can plane out to the desired sailing are at around 15-18 knots, whereas the Valiant, while considered relatively fast, only make around 7-8 knots under power. So, with respect to convenience, and ability to get to a preferred sailing area within a given day or weekend, the MacGregor is a "better" boat. See #1. (4) The ability to return to port quickly, ahead of impending weather, is also a safety factor in the Mac. When we sailed the Valiant, there were several channels in the Galveston area that weren't clearly marked and in which we could not maneuver safely at low tide. So, we had to turn back from a preferred anchorage we were trying to reach. In contrast, the dagger board of the MacGregor can be raised incrementally as desired, with a minimum draft of around 18 inches. Again, with respect to its ability to maneuver in shallow or unmarked channels, or to anchor in shallow water, or beach on shore to permit grandkids to play on the sand, the MacGregor is a "better" boat, since the Valiant must be kept in much deeper water and doesn't have the versatility of the Mac for such shallow water activities. See #1. I have no doubt that the Valiant has better sailing characteristics, will point higher, and would be more comfortable in heavy weather. - In that sense, it is a "better" boat than the MacGregor (although I understand that the MacGregor can actually plane under sail and may therefore be faster under sail in some conditions). (5) However, if I can't get out to the blue water on weekends because of the requisite hours of motoring time it takes to get from our area to the blue water, then the fine sailing characteristics of the Valiant wouldn't be of much benefit to me. (With the exception of being able to talk about it on the newsgroup.) Under those circumstances, if I could only get out once or twice a year, it may make more sense to charter a larger boat for extended cruising when I can time off for a week or so. See #1. Again, an evaluation of the quality of the boat depends on the criteria used in the evaluation, and how the boat will be used. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
I think he's already brain dead. Does anything else matter?
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... "Jim Cate" wrote I'll be here for whatever time it takes for you to come to the realization that you aren't going to intimidate me or drive me away. Then you'll die here. Get used to the idea that I'm just wasting everyone's time. Jim Yup. |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Nah, you're a piker. When you get the thread into the 1000s, let me
know. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jonathan Ganz wrote: Yes, Mac "enthusiasts" are easy targets, like shooting fish in a barrel, because anyone dumb enough to buy one isn't much of a sailor. I for one have no problem with you sticking around. Sometimes even shooting fish in a barrel is good, clean fun. Also, you might learn something and then decide to sell that piece of crap and get a real boat. Many of us have been here for years. So far, you haven't proven yourself to be anything more than a dummy, and a temporary one at that. Really? If I'm that stupid and my notes are that insignificant, why is this discussion string the most extensive on the ng, with over 400 responses? Why, after a few days of responses, would any rational person want to waste his time continuing to respond to a complete dummy, as you describe me, over and over again, ad nauseum? In case you hadn't noticed, your actions aren't consistent with your words. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
I think he's under the impression that his head is double hulled.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... are you under the impression that a mac26 is double hulled? SV "Jim Cate" wrote 6 times... (1) - If the lower hull is compromised, the inner hull remains. |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Keep posting the same crap over and over. Eventually, someone will
complain to your isp and you'll be toast. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... JAXAshby wrote: However, they (mac 26's) entail certain obvious advantages for sailing not that anyone but you can see. Whether or not the Valiant is a "better" boat depends on your particular criteria, however. With respect to safety for coastal cruising, the Mac seems to have several advantages. (1) - If the lower hull is compromised, the inner hull remains. (2) If both hulls are compromised, or if the side hull is penetrated as in a collision, the integrated flotation keeps the Mac afloat. By contrast, if the hull of the Valiant (or other keep boats) is compromised, or if the through-hulls leak, or if substantial water enters the boat for some other reason, the keel of the Valiant will quickly pull it to the bottom. In this respect, the MacGregor is a "better" boat. (Galveston-Houston has its share of drunk red-necks racing around the bays at 60 mph while downing another six-pack.) (3) Regarding access to good sailing areas, the MacGregor can plane out to the desired sailing are at around 15-18 knots, whereas the Valiant, while considered relatively fast, only make around 7-8 knots under power. So, with respect to convenience, and ability to get to a preferred sailing area within a given day or weekend, the MacGregor is a "better" boat. (4) The ability to return to port quickly, ahead of impending weather, is also a safety factor in the Mac. When we sailed the Valiant, there were several channels in the Galveston area that weren't clearly marked and in which we could not maneuver safely at low tide. So, we had to turn back from a preferred anchorage we were trying to reach. In contrast, the dagger board of the MacGregor can be raised incrementally as desired, with a minimum draft of around 18 inches. Again, with respect to its ability to maneuver in shallow or unmarked channels, or to anchor in shallow water, or beach on shore to permit grandkids to play on the sand, the MacGregor is a "better" boat, since the Valiant must be kept in much deeper water and doesn't have the versatility of the Mac for such shallow water activities. I have no doubt that the Valiant has better sailing characteristics, will point higher, and would be more comfortable in heavy weather. - In that sense, it is a "better" boat than the MacGregor (although I understand that the MacGregor can actually plane under sail and may therefore be faster under sail in some conditions). (5) However, if I can't get out to the blue water on weekends because of the requisite hours of motoring time it takes to get from our area to the blue water, then the fine sailing characteristics of the Valiant wouldn't be of much benefit to me. (With the exception of being able to talk about it on the newsgroup.) Under those circumstances, if I could only get out once or twice a year, it may make more sense to charter a larger boat for extended cruising when I can time off for a week or so. Again, an evaluation of the quality of the boat depends on the criteria used in the evaluation, and how the boat will be used. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
They also know how to spell knots, not?
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... Sailors describe wind speed in 'knots', Mac 26M drivers use 'MPH'. SV "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... I would suggest 30-40not conditions with some 15 footers....make sure you take a life raft.... Katy, what are 30-40not conditions? I don't think I've ever seen any of those "not" conditions. - But I'll keep an eye out for them. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
You missed one.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... Yup. "Jim Cate" wrote As long as I keep posting the same crap over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over 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and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and again, I'll look like a fool. Jim MacGregor |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Prove it. I think you bought it a few weeks ago. I have it on
good authority. Prove I'm wrong. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jonathan Ganz wrote: Bull. You bought it weeks ago That's a God damned lie. and are now trying to justify the purchase. Don't start lying already. It's not worth it. If we have nothing of substance to say, then why are you still listening. I think you're going to stay around just long enough to pop a cork... look out folks, he's almost there! |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Because he's either stupid, a troll, or trying to justify his poor choice.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... Then why are you still here? "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Scott Vernon wrote: Jimbo, did you ask your silly questions on the Mac list, like I suggested? SV Yes. The great majority on the Mac lists have one of the the older models. I did correspond with and speak with some 26M owners. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Jim boasted:
I'll be here for whatever time it takes for you to come to the realization that you aren't going to intimidate me or drive me away. Time to call in Bertie and troop..... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Jim, still not gettingIf I'm that stupid and my notes are that
insignificant, why is this discussion string the most extensive on the ng, SHADES OF LONG ISLANDWE HAVE A MACKEREL!!!!!!!! -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Jim claimed:
I don't think I've ever seen any of those "not" conditions. - But I'll keep an eye out for them. And that's another reason why you don't belong here...everyone else knew what that meant... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Jim Cate" wrote
As long as I keep posting the same crap over and over and over and over It really is time for Bertie..... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
I'm of the opinion that the guy is a MacGregor infiltrate, sent by the
company to turn the attention of the group on their sorry product... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Jonathan Ganz wrote:
Because he's either stupid, a troll, or trying to justify his poor choice. All three? Cheers Marty |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
wrote are you under the impression that a mac26 is double hulled? It is double hulled, but the space in between the layers is water ballast, which gives you a head start on filling up the rest of the boat with water. and the space in-between your ears is a vacuum if you think the Mac is double hulled. SV |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
I knew that.
Jim has an excuse, he's an idiot. You should know better. floor? Scotty wrote Scotty, There is a space between the bottom of the boat and the floor of the boat. It is a tank for water ballast. Jim thinks that means the same thing as double hulled. BB |
SPAM!! MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
SPAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
However, they (mac 26's) entail certain obvious advantages for sailing not that anyone but you can see. Whether or not the Valiant is a "better" boat depends on your particular criteria, however. With respect to safety for coastal cruising, the Mac seems to have several advantages. (1) - If the lower hull is compromised, the inner hull remains. (2) If both hulls are compromised, or if the side hull is penetrated as in a collision, the integrated flotation keeps the Mac afloat. By contrast, if the hull of the Valiant (or other keep boats) is compromised, or if the through-hulls leak, or if substantial water enters the boat for some other reason, the keel of the Valiant will quickly pull it to the bottom. In this respect, the MacGregor is a "better" boat. (Galveston-Houston has its share of drunk red-necks racing around the bays at 60 mph while downing another six-pack.) (3) Regarding access to good sailing areas, the MacGregor can plane out to the desired sailing are at around 15-18 knots, whereas the Valiant, while considered relatively fast, only make around 7-8 knots under power. So, with respect to convenience, and ability to get to a preferred sailing area within a given day or weekend, the MacGregor is a "better" boat. (4) The ability to return to port quickly, ahead of impending weather, is also a safety factor in the Mac. When we sailed the Valiant, there were several channels in the Galveston area that weren't clearly marked and in which we could not maneuver safely at low tide. So, we had to turn back from a preferred anchorage we were trying to reach. In contrast, the dagger board of the MacGregor can be raised incrementally as desired, with a minimum draft of around 18 inches. Again, with respect to its ability to maneuver in shallow or unmarked channels, or to anchor in shallow water, or beach on shore to permit grandkids to play on the sand, the MacGregor is a "better" boat, since the Valiant must be kept in much deeper water and doesn't have the versatility of the Mac for such shallow water activities. I have no doubt that the Valiant has better sailing characteristics, will point higher, and would be more comfortable in heavy weather. - In that sense, it is a "better" boat than the MacGregor (although I understand that the MacGregor can actually plane under sail and may therefore be faster under sail in some conditions). (5) However, if I can't get out to the blue water on weekends because of the requisite hours of motoring time it takes to get from our area to the blue water, then the fine sailing characteristics of the Valiant wouldn't be of much benefit to me. (With the exception of being able to talk about it on the newsgroup.) Under those circumstances, if I could only get out once or twice a year, it may make more sense to charter a larger boat for extended cruising when I can time off for a week or so. Again, an evaluation of the quality of the boat depends on the criteria used in the evaluation, and how the boat will be used. Jim |
SPAM!! MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
I'll be here for whatever time it takes for you to come to the
realization that you aren't going to intimidate me or drive me away. Get used to the idea that not all Mac owners are easy targes who will cave under the usual Mac-Bashing. Give it up, Katy. You're just wasting everyone's time. Jim |
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