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MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
I have an idea. When Jim's new boat is finally delivered, how's about we
all run down there to Galveston and do some testing on our own? Bring sharp implements, axes, adze, whatever you have, and we'll test his hull theory. He shouldn't mind at all since he has such great faith in his product and it would be doing a world of good since, of course, all of his claims would prove true. -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
I don't think you'd need all that hardware. All that we have to do
is to attempt to sail it. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "katysails" wrote in message ... I have an idea. When Jim's new boat is finally delivered, how's about we all run down there to Galveston and do some testing on our own? Bring sharp implements, axes, adze, whatever you have, and we'll test his hull theory. He shouldn't mind at all since he has such great faith in his product and it would be doing a world of good since, of course, all of his claims would prove true. -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
John Cairns wrote: Tadpole, I don't think this guy is an innocent. Either he's a troll or he's pimping for mac, no one could possibly be this gullible or stupid. He quotes mac sales literature like it came from a burning bush. It was slightly entertaining for a while but I notice when his statements get taken apart like an overdone piece of chicken, he doesn't respond. I would guess he's a pimp. John Cairns Well, I'm kind and generous, like I said, and I feel that even the lowest should be given their chance to redeem themselves. Besides, it _could_ have been Bobsprit trying out another script, and if so, deserving of applause for the longest troll for a long time, in which all have enjoyed themselves. But given the non-responses, you may be right, and Jim the Deafer is just a chicken past-its-date, going down. OTOH, would even a Macgregor pimp suggst taking a Mac 100 miles off-shore??? -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace! http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
In article ,
wrote: On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:23:05 -0400, "Jeff Morris" wrote: Its funny, the drawing on the web site don't show this to be "double hulled". The water ballast is on the center line, not around the chine - it would be easy to penetrate the hull with a glancing blow to a rock. BTW, what would happen to the daggerboard if it touched bottom? The daggerboard stays, and the rest of the boat keeps going. Other tidbits from Macgregor: The factory does not supply gas tank hold downs. If you wish to add your own, DO NOT drill any holes! You must glass in the hold downs. If you install a second battery, DO NOT put it next to the existing one. It will cause too much stress (what's that battery weigh? 50 pounds?) You must mount it on the opposite side of the boat. By the way, if you motor with the ballast tank empty, bear in mind that the boat is then VERY top heavy, and extremely prone to capsizing. Make all turns very slowly and gradually, and always avoid the wakes from other boats and large fish. I did wonder about that. Next question is, does the thing plane with the ballast tank full? If not, there goes the 18 knots..... PDW |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Mere nitpicking. _I_ want Jim to tell me how it copes with a 5
foot square chop, so I can rush down and tell the owners of one of the local X's what they're doing wrong, and that they're now free to get out on the lake (indeed, 100 miles out) in other than zero-wind conditions! -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace! http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com Peter Wiley wrote: In article , wrote: Other tidbits from Macgregor: The factory does not supply gas tank hold downs. If you wish to add your own, DO NOT drill any holes! You must glass in the hold downs. If you install a second battery, DO NOT put it next to the existing one. It will cause too much stress (what's that battery weigh? 50 pounds?) You must mount it on the opposite side of the boat. By the way, if you motor with the ballast tank empty, bear in mind that the boat is then VERY top heavy, and extremely prone to capsizing. Make all turns very slowly and gradually, and always avoid the wakes from other boats and large fish. I did wonder about that. Next question is, does the thing plane with the ballast tank full? If not, there goes the 18 knots..... PDW |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
In one place they say they lose 3 mph when the ballast if full. In another,
they say they lose one mph for every 100 pounds added. Also, the "22 mph" is with empty tanks, no rigging, one person, flat seas. They advise not running without ballast, but if you must, there's a long list of safety precautions, like not going on deck, staying seated, only do it if the seas are under one foot and the water is warm, etc. "Peter Wiley" wrote in message . .. In article , wrote: On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:23:05 -0400, "Jeff Morris" wrote: Its funny, the drawing on the web site don't show this to be "double hulled". The water ballast is on the center line, not around the chine - it would be easy to penetrate the hull with a glancing blow to a rock. BTW, what would happen to the daggerboard if it touched bottom? The daggerboard stays, and the rest of the boat keeps going. Other tidbits from Macgregor: The factory does not supply gas tank hold downs. If you wish to add your own, DO NOT drill any holes! You must glass in the hold downs. If you install a second battery, DO NOT put it next to the existing one. It will cause too much stress (what's that battery weigh? 50 pounds?) You must mount it on the opposite side of the boat. By the way, if you motor with the ballast tank empty, bear in mind that the boat is then VERY top heavy, and extremely prone to capsizing. Make all turns very slowly and gradually, and always avoid the wakes from other boats and large fish. I did wonder about that. Next question is, does the thing plane with the ballast tank full? If not, there goes the 18 knots..... PDW |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Peter Wiley wrote: In article , Jonathan Ganz wrote: Sure, I'm bored Jhm. Well, he's good for something, then. My thoughts on his list of points was exactly the same as yours - get a catamaran. As someone else said, let's see that thing plane or move at 18 knots in a nasty chop and 30 knot headwind. Isn't going to happen. PDW \ Actually, I would have reefed a long time before experiencing 30 knot winds in any direction. The Mac has some obvious advantages and also some obvious disadvantages. One of the disadvantages (with respect to sailing in heavy weather offshore) is that it isn't a heavy discplacement boat weighing over 15,000 pounds that can readily handle 30 knot winds. On the other hand, one of its advantages (with respect to 90% of the conditions I expect to sail in) is that it isn't a heavy displacment boat weighing over 15,000 pounds, but can still survive in heavy weather. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
felton wrote: On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:49:36 -0400, "Scott Vernon" wrote: are you under the impression that a mac26 is double hulled? SV He may be thinking that a liner is a second hull, which will prevent him from sinking if one of those drunken powerboaters hits him doing 60mph. Perhaps Macs have foam floatation, as most of them would otherwise be on the bottom. If I make it up to the Valiant yard in the next few days, perhaps I will suggest that they may want to "improve" their boats with some of these innovations:) Here is a question for Jim...a drunken powerboater is heading towards you. You can elect to be in a Valiant or a Mac. Which do you choose?:) If you are really so naive as to think that a Mac 26 is a more survivable boat in any scenario than a Valiant or any other "real" sailboat, then thanks for the comic relief. If I could anticipate that a drunken powerboater were going to hit me going 50 mph, I would prefer a Valiant, although even then, I don't think you could predict what would happen. (It's possible that the hull of the Valiant would be compromised, in which case its keel would quickly pull it to the bottom.) But a new Valiant would cost around $400,000, normally equiped, or more than 10 times the cost of the Mac loaded with navigation and autosteering. - You can't always get what you want, but sometimes, if you try real hard, you just might get what you need. - Which in my case is the 26M. Now, let me ask you a question. - If you were sailing in a displacemenet boat in unexpected high winds, and you had your son tethered to the boat for safety, and it became obvious that the boat was going to founder, would you prefer that the boat have positive foam flotation, as in the MacGregor, or would you prefer that your son be on a discplacement boat with a heavy keel that would drag the boat and its occupants to the bottom within a few minutes? The obvious solution to your dilemma was to have chosen a marina closer to where you wish to sail. You can drive a car faster than even the motorboat you have chosen will go. I will grant you that if your only criteria was how fast you can motor in your "sailboat", then you have probably chosen wisely. For $30k you could have bought a pretty decent powerboat instead. Live and learn. Felton, I don't like power boats. I want the power capabilities of the Mac because it will enable us to get to good blue water sailing areas more quickly, and also permit us to fish, and let our grandkids play safely in shallow water, or beach the boat. It will also permit us to motor out, do some sailing and some fishing and/or some swimming, and motor back within a few hours, rather than taking the entire weekend. Jim p, "Jim Cate" wrote 6 times... (1) - If the lower hull is compromised, the inner hull remains. |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
katysails wrote: I'm of the opinion that the guy is a MacGregor infiltrate, sent by the company to turn the attention of the group on their sorry product... Not at all. However, I am interested in maintaining some balance between differing points of view, and it's obvious that the Mac-Bashers have posted more than their share of notes ridiculing Mac owners in the past few years, despite the fact that most of them know little or nothing about the current model. Hopfully, I can help make up the difference. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
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MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
katysails wrote: Jim claimed: I don't think I've ever seen any of those "not" conditions. - But I'll keep an eye out for them. And that's another reason why you don't belong here...everyone else knew what that meant... Actually, I knew what you meant too, Katy. It was just too tempting. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
I'm still here because it's clear that the ng needs some balance and
fresh air and differing viewpoints on some issues. And also because some Mac owners have come on the group and been intimidated and driven off, and because I frankly don't like your attitude. What HASN'T been explained is why you and your buddies are so very concerned and stressed out about my remarks that you can't simply press the "down button" and move on to another topic. Why do you want to continue wasting time in this discussion if you REALLY think my comments are totally insignificant and absurd and without merit? It should be clear to you by now that you aren't going to drive me away. - So what's keeping you in this discussion? Why can't you just leave it alone? Jim Scott Vernon wrote: Yup. "Jim Cate" wrote As long as I keep posting the same crap over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over 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and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over 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and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and again, I'll look like a fool. Jim MacGregor |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Jonathan Ganz wrote: Prove it. I think you bought it a few weeks ago. I have it on good authority. Prove I'm wrong. I placed the order for the Mac on March 25. My initial note on this ng was posted February 25. Prior to ordering the Mac, I was seriously considering several other boats, as mentioned in some of my other notes posted in February and March. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Scott Vernon wrote: Then why are you still here? Because: there weren't very many owners of the new 26M, and I thought I might get some further substantive information from this group, which is larger than the Mac group. I'm remaining on the ng because it's become increasingly obvious that many on this ng have become opinionated, set in their ways and rigid in their views, and because the ng needs some new insights and some contributors who are willing to state and defend some differing points of view. Jim "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Scott Vernon wrote: Jimbo, did you ask your silly questions on the Mac list, like I suggested? SV Yes. The great majority on the Mac lists have one of the the older models. I did correspond with and speak with some 26M owners. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Jonathan Ganz wrote: Because he's either stupid, a troll, or trying to justify his poor choice. Then why are you sticking around in this discussion, John? Can't let it go? Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 20:16:19 -0500, Jim Cate wrote:
felton wrote: On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:49:36 -0400, "Scott Vernon" wrote: are you under the impression that a mac26 is double hulled? SV He may be thinking that a liner is a second hull, which will prevent him from sinking if one of those drunken powerboaters hits him doing 60mph. Perhaps Macs have foam floatation, as most of them would otherwise be on the bottom. If I make it up to the Valiant yard in the next few days, perhaps I will suggest that they may want to "improve" their boats with some of these innovations:) Here is a question for Jim...a drunken powerboater is heading towards you. You can elect to be in a Valiant or a Mac. Which do you choose?:) If you are really so naive as to think that a Mac 26 is a more survivable boat in any scenario than a Valiant or any other "real" sailboat, then thanks for the comic relief. If I could anticipate that a drunken powerboater were going to hit me going 50 mph, I would prefer a Valiant, although even then, I don't think you could predict what would happen. (It's possible that the hull of the Valiant would be compromised, in which case its keel would quickly pull it to the bottom.) But a new Valiant would cost around $400,000, normally equiped, or more than 10 times the cost of the Mac loaded with navigation and autosteering. - You can't always get what you want, but sometimes, if you try real hard, you just might get what you need. - Which in my case is the 26M. Hmmm. Moving the goalposts it would seem. Of course a Valiant is a vastly more expensive boat that frankly is "overkill" for the kind of sailing that you or I do. I am unclear why you keep choosing to compare the Mac to the Valiant, but since you do I keep pointing out the obvious. The fact that no Valiant has ever gone to the bottom but have logged many a circumnavigation should put your mind at ease, but yet the fact that you still cling to the belief that a 3500lb clorox bottle is somehow "safer" than a Valiant, or any "real" sailboat, speaks volumes to any real sailor. Now, let me ask you a question. - If you were sailing in a displacemenet boat in unexpected high winds, and you had your son tethered to the boat for safety, and it became obvious that the boat was going to founder, would you prefer that the boat have positive foam flotation, as in the MacGregor, or would you prefer that your son be on a discplacement boat with a heavy keel that would drag the boat and its occupants to the bottom within a few minutes? I would absolutely prefer to be on a displacement boat than rely on foam floatation in a lightly built clorox bottle. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind which would be the safer boat. My boat has a real rig, unlike the Mac. I can depower my rig, shorten sail, or even go bare poles if need be. Anyone on a Mac 26 is going to be SOL. It really doesn't give me much comfort knowing that there may be some foam floatation on which I can cling waiting for rescue. The obvious solution to your dilemma was to have chosen a marina closer to where you wish to sail. You can drive a car faster than even the motorboat you have chosen will go. I will grant you that if your only criteria was how fast you can motor in your "sailboat", then you have probably chosen wisely. For $30k you could have bought a pretty decent powerboat instead. Live and learn. Felton, I don't like power boats. I want the power capabilities of the Mac because it will enable us to get to good blue water sailing areas more quickly, and also permit us to fish, and let our grandkids play safely in shallow water, or beach the boat. It will also permit us to motor out, do some sailing and some fishing and/or some swimming, and motor back within a few hours, rather than taking the entire weekend. Jim While I am not a fan of powerboats either, given your objectives, you should have bought one. A Mac 26 is the worst of both worlds. Something for everyone, I suppose. Someone even married my ex-wife:) p, "Jim Cate" wrote 6 times... (1) - If the lower hull is compromised, the inner hull remains. |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Perhaps you should look at the drawings of your beloved boat - its doesn't have
a double hull either. The portion of the hull the is protected by the ballast tank is about a third of the underwater surface - and its the part least likely to be damaged in a collision. If you hit a log (especially at speed) you're going to need that foam flotation. And the boat will be a total loss, the engine certainly wasted. BTW, they never actually say that there is enough foam to float the boat if the engine is attached, do they? Do you think they destroyed a $8000 engine just to take that picture? And, if you have any damage to the ballast tank, it could lose water and the partially filled tank becomes dangerously unstable. This is not so bad if you're on a lake where the mac belongs, but offshore this becomes treacherous. So the question is, would you prefer a boat with a solid hull that can withstand a beating without being compromised, or one that is likely to be compromised by a minor collision? "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... wrote: On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:54:53 -0400, "Scott Vernon" wrote: wrote are you under the impression that a mac26 is double hulled? It is double hulled, but the space in between the layers is water ballast, which gives you a head start on filling up the rest of the boat with water. and the space in-between your ears is a vacuum if you think the Mac is double hulled. Scotty, There is a space between the bottom of the boat and the floor of the boat. It is a tank for water ballast. Jim thinks that means the same thing as double hulled. Whether or not you call it a second hull, it is a second wall that preents entry of water into the cabin if the lower hull is compromised. - Does the Valiant have one of these back-up walls? I didn't see one on the one we sailed. Jim barrier that would pre or not |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Jonathan Ganz wrote: I try not to speculate too much. Not so. You're willing to speculate all over the place about the 26M, despite the fact that you haven't sailed one or spoken with anyone who has. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
We're just trying to save others from the same fate that has befallen you.
Frankly, the mac is not a bad boat if you stay in a calm lake. It's pretty expensive, and it depreciates faster than any other boat made, but its does have some unique qualities. But claiming that the real advantage is that you can quickly get to "blue water" is just plain stupid. "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... I'm still here because it's clear that the ng needs some balance and fresh air and differing viewpoints on some issues. And also because some Mac owners have come on the group and been intimidated and driven off, and because I frankly don't like your attitude. What HASN'T been explained is why you and your buddies are so very concerned and stressed out about my remarks that you can't simply press the "down button" and move on to another topic. Why do you want to continue wasting time in this discussion if you REALLY think my comments are totally insignificant and absurd and without merit? It should be clear to you by now that you aren't going to drive me away. - So what's keeping you in this discussion? Why can't you just leave it alone? Jim Scott Vernon wrote: Yup. "Jim Cate" wrote As long as I keep posting the same crap over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and again, I'll look like a fool. Jim MacGregor |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Wally wrote: Jim Cate wrote: This isn't what happened at all. I posted my questions several times on this an on the cruising ng and scanned the reponses for over a month hoping to get some factual or substantive information regarding the 26M. It was only after weeks of "Mac bashings" ... What, you came into a sailing newsgroup to enquire about about a boat you knew little about, it's gets slagged off something rotten for a month... ...and then you go and *buy* one? Nobody is that stupid. You have it bass-ass backwards, Wally. I came onto this newsgroups hoping to get some substantive, factual information. Instead, I found out that most of the Mac-bashers have never sailed the current Mac 26, and don't know what the hell they are talking about, yet despite this, don't hesitate to pontificate and sneer and try to intimidate anyone who likes the boat. This reveals to me that the Mac-bashers are either: (1) stupid (2) incapable of rational thought, or (3) liar. In any event, it put my mind at ease with respect to what I thought might be some problems with the Mac, other than its inherent limitations that I already knew. Thus, my decision was simplified, and I proceeded to place my order. Because they are substantially sold out for the rest of the summer, I'll be one of the fortunate few who will be able to take delivery of this spectacular and innovated boat this season. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Wally wrote: Jim Cate wrote: Would I be permitted to buy a chart plotter, depth-knot, autosteering, or VHF? What's a "depth-knot"? It tells me when we have "40-not" winds. |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 21:01:44 -0500, Jim Cate wrote:
Wally wrote: Jim Cate wrote: This isn't what happened at all. I posted my questions several times on this an on the cruising ng and scanned the reponses for over a month hoping to get some factual or substantive information regarding the 26M. It was only after weeks of "Mac bashings" ... What, you came into a sailing newsgroup to enquire about about a boat you knew little about, it's gets slagged off something rotten for a month... ...and then you go and *buy* one? Nobody is that stupid. You have it bass-ass backwards, Wally. I came onto this newsgroups hoping to get some substantive, factual information. Instead, I found out that most of the Mac-bashers have never sailed the current Mac 26, and don't know what the hell they are talking about, yet despite this, don't hesitate to pontificate and sneer and try to intimidate anyone who likes the boat. This reveals to me that the Mac-bashers are either: (1) stupid (2) incapable of rational thought, or (3) liar. In any event, it put my mind at ease with respect to what I thought might be some problems with the Mac, other than its inherent limitations that I already knew. Thus, my decision was simplified, and I proceeded to place my order. Because they are substantially sold out for the rest of the summer, I'll be one of the fortunate few who will be able to take delivery of this spectacular and innovated boat this season. Jim Do you really believe that the "new" Mac 26 is some night and day different boat than the "old" Mac 26? P.T. Barnum was right. |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Jim Cate wrote:
What's a "depth-knot"? It tells me when we have "40-not" winds. Where does the depth bit fit into this? Faceitiousness aside, what sort of handling do you expect from the 26M in a 40kt wind? How much reef would you put in the main, and what size of jib would you use? How much heel would you expect when going to windward? -- Wally www.artbywally.com www.wally.myby.co.uk/music |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
In article , Jim Cate
wrote: Wally wrote: Jim Cate wrote: This isn't what happened at all. I posted my questions several times on this an on the cruising ng and scanned the reponses for over a month hoping to get some factual or substantive information regarding the 26M. It was only after weeks of "Mac bashings" ... What, you came into a sailing newsgroup to enquire about about a boat you knew little about, it's gets slagged off something rotten for a month... ...and then you go and *buy* one? Nobody is that stupid. You have it bass-ass backwards, Wally. I came onto this newsgroups hoping to get some substantive, factual information. Instead, I found out that most of the Mac-bashers have never sailed the current Mac 26, and don't know what the hell they are talking about, Ah, there's a telling point. Jim thinks that the only thing that counts is direct, personal experience. I guess he would have stuck his head in an oven to see how hot it was. That explains a lot. PDW |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Sort of leads to the obvious question, then. Can the thing plane with a sailing rig, full ballast tanks, fuel, water and a couple or 4 people aboard? If not, there goes any speed advantage over a displacement sailboat, but you keep the disadvantages quite nicely. Including the greater fuel consumption and the need to carry a much more flammable fuel to boot. There are advantages of outboards, no denying that. But to read an account of how they perform in any sort of sea on a displacement hull, try reading Fanny Hill's 'Brazil and Beyond'. They eventually replaced the outboard with a diesel inboard. Jim could have got a centreboard sharpie that draws bugger-all water with an outboard in a well. I was looking at a Cal 22 yesterday and it had an outboard on a set of parallelogram bars in a well - most of the advantages of a saildrive at a lot less cost, and fully retractable. A setup like that in a sharpie hull, you'd have something that sailed and had shoal draft. Course, it wouldn't plane at 18+ knots ot get to blue water fast, but let's see if this unstable Mac can do it except in ideal conditions. PDW In article , Jeff Morris wrote: In one place they say they lose 3 mph when the ballast if full. In another, they say they lose one mph for every 100 pounds added. Also, the "22 mph" is with empty tanks, no rigging, one person, flat seas. They advise not running without ballast, but if you must, there's a long list of safety precautions, like not going on deck, staying seated, only do it if the seas are under one foot and the water is warm, etc. "Peter Wiley" wrote in message . .. In article , wrote: On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:23:05 -0400, "Jeff Morris" wrote: Its funny, the drawing on the web site don't show this to be "double hulled". The water ballast is on the center line, not around the chine - it would be easy to penetrate the hull with a glancing blow to a rock. BTW, what would happen to the daggerboard if it touched bottom? The daggerboard stays, and the rest of the boat keeps going. Other tidbits from Macgregor: The factory does not supply gas tank hold downs. If you wish to add your own, DO NOT drill any holes! You must glass in the hold downs. If you install a second battery, DO NOT put it next to the existing one. It will cause too much stress (what's that battery weigh? 50 pounds?) You must mount it on the opposite side of the boat. By the way, if you motor with the ballast tank empty, bear in mind that the boat is then VERY top heavy, and extremely prone to capsizing. Make all turns very slowly and gradually, and always avoid the wakes from other boats and large fish. I did wonder about that. Next question is, does the thing plane with the ballast tank full? If not, there goes the 18 knots..... PDW |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Jim Cate wrote:
You have it bass-ass backwards, Wally. In all honesty, and with due respect, I think you have. I came onto this newsgroups hoping to get some substantive, factual information. Would I be correct in assuming that you were looking for said information to aid you in your purchasing decision? Instead, I found out that most of the Mac-bashers have never sailed the current Mac 26, and don't know what the hell they are talking about, yet despite this, don't hesitate to pontificate and sneer and try to intimidate anyone who likes the boat. This reveals to me that the Mac-bashers are either: (1) stupid (2) incapable of rational thought, or (3) liar. Frankly, I think "intimidate" is a bit strong. This *is* a newsgroup, after all. If you know anything about usenet, you'll know that conversation is often robust to say the least. In any event, it put my mind at ease with respect to what I thought might be some problems with the Mac, other than its inherent limitations that I already knew. Thus, my decision was simplified, and I proceeded to place my order. What probelms in partcular were you concerned about, and how could those concerns be put at ease when all you've had is negative comments? ... Because they are substantially sold out for the rest of the summer, I'll be one of the fortunate few who will be able to take delivery of this spectacular and innovated boat this season. What is spectacular and innovative about it? -- Wally www.artbywally.com www.wally.myby.co.uk/music |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Jim fibbed: Actually, I knew what you meant too, Katy. It was just too
tempting. Nah...you didn't know.... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Jim asked: Why do you want to
continue wasting time in this discussion if you REALLY think my comments are totally insignificant and absurd and without merit? Ok...the honest truth here...we all truly, truly believe that the Mac designed X and M are bad boats, that they are a sham, and that they are dangerous. If we KF'd you or ignored you, some newbie is going to read your glowing, rose-colored glasses reviews of Macs and go out and buy one. Then we would be responsible for that poor choice. We look upon sailboat ownership as a responsibility and we look out for other sailors, even the newbies. When someone makes a poor choice and doesn't have the intelligence to listen to tried and tue opinion and fact, then we have to take action. We are the vigilantes of ng sailing. We have a responsibility, and we don't take that lightly. You have a long, long road ahead of you, but we've had your kind here before. You will notice they are not here now. Stay if you wish, but PLEASE, stop repeating yourself. Stop asking the same questions...you will get the same answers every time. If nothing else, we are consistent. -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Jim opined: many on this ng
have become opinionated, Become???? We came this way...we're original opinionates.... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Jim, obviously knowing very little about Jon or his ng history asked: Then
why are you sticking around in this discussion, John? Can't let it go? BWAHAHAHAHAHA I've been possessed by Bobsprit..... : -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
So, when do you all guess Jim confesses he's really Bobsprit and that he
"won"? -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
I've been passed a number of times by a Mac 26X that used to stay in the Charles
River and power out into Boston harbor every Saturday morning. I figured he was doing about 10-12 knots. Every week I would comment on how its nice that he keeps using the boat. About a half hour later I would overtake them in the middle harbor when they stopped the engine and raised sail (to his credit he kept trying). In the short, nasty chop of the busy harbor they made essentially no headway. This went on for 2 or 3 years - I haven't seen them lately. BTW, I was at the yard today and checked out the newer 26 stashed near my boat and realized its engine was missing - the cables had been chopped rather traumatically! I don't think it happened in the yard since it was backed against the fence. I'll get the full story soon, I assume. I guess this is another downside of a boat whose half its value is just bolted on the back. "Peter Wiley" wrote in message . .. Sort of leads to the obvious question, then. Can the thing plane with a sailing rig, full ballast tanks, fuel, water and a couple or 4 people aboard? If not, there goes any speed advantage over a displacement sailboat, but you keep the disadvantages quite nicely. Including the greater fuel consumption and the need to carry a much more flammable fuel to boot. There are advantages of outboards, no denying that. But to read an account of how they perform in any sort of sea on a displacement hull, try reading Fanny Hill's 'Brazil and Beyond'. They eventually replaced the outboard with a diesel inboard. Jim could have got a centreboard sharpie that draws bugger-all water with an outboard in a well. I was looking at a Cal 22 yesterday and it had an outboard on a set of parallelogram bars in a well - most of the advantages of a saildrive at a lot less cost, and fully retractable. A setup like that in a sharpie hull, you'd have something that sailed and had shoal draft. Course, it wouldn't plane at 18+ knots ot get to blue water fast, but let's see if this unstable Mac can do it except in ideal conditions. PDW In article , Jeff Morris wrote: In one place they say they lose 3 mph when the ballast if full. In another, they say they lose one mph for every 100 pounds added. Also, the "22 mph" is with empty tanks, no rigging, one person, flat seas. They advise not running without ballast, but if you must, there's a long list of safety precautions, like not going on deck, staying seated, only do it if the seas are under one foot and the water is warm, etc. "Peter Wiley" wrote in message . .. In article , wrote: On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:23:05 -0400, "Jeff Morris" wrote: Its funny, the drawing on the web site don't show this to be "double hulled". The water ballast is on the center line, not around the chine - it would be easy to penetrate the hull with a glancing blow to a rock. BTW, what would happen to the daggerboard if it touched bottom? The daggerboard stays, and the rest of the boat keeps going. Other tidbits from Macgregor: The factory does not supply gas tank hold downs. If you wish to add your own, DO NOT drill any holes! You must glass in the hold downs. If you install a second battery, DO NOT put it next to the existing one. It will cause too much stress (what's that battery weigh? 50 pounds?) You must mount it on the opposite side of the boat. By the way, if you motor with the ballast tank empty, bear in mind that the boat is then VERY top heavy, and extremely prone to capsizing. Make all turns very slowly and gradually, and always avoid the wakes from other boats and large fish. I did wonder about that. Next question is, does the thing plane with the ballast tank full? If not, there goes the 18 knots..... PDW |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
"Jim Cate" wrote in message ... I'm still here because it's clear that the ng needs some balance and fresh air and differing viewpoints on some issues. And also because some Mac owners have come on the group and been intimidated and driven off, and because I frankly don't like your attitude. What HASN'T been explained is why you and your buddies are so very concerned and stressed out about my remarks that you can't simply press the "down button" and move on to another topic. Why do you want to continue wasting time in this discussion if you REALLY think my comments are totally insignificant and absurd and without merit? It should be clear to you by now that you aren't going to drive me away. - So what's keeping you in this discussion? Why can't you just leave it alone? Jim You can't seriously believe this crap you've been posting, can you? You're basically posting, verbatim, what you've been reading in the mac sales literature. I can offer you one unbiased review of the mac, culled from "Practical Sailor", which accepts no advertising and can't possibly be accused of harboring biases when it comes to sailboat evaluations. It's free. http://www.practical-sailor.com/sample/boatreview2.html Very interesting that they didn't bother to ACTUALLY SAIL THE THING. Also very interesting that this was one of the 2 reviews that they're offering free of charge. A public service announcement, perhaps? You'll note, even the man himself doesn't claim that this is an "offshore" boat. No one will drive you away, but at some point you'll get plonked by just about everyone here. And one last thing, if you really think your comments are "balanced" and "fresh air", why do YOU keep trying to justify them? After all, you asked for the input from us, we didn't come looking for YOU. And, of course, I've never actually sailed one, but I've sailed by them many times in my 28 ft. keelboat, I should say, I've passed them many times in my 28 ft. keelboat, more often than not they didn't appear to be moving. I will also admit, because I've seen it also, that they can definitely motor a lot faster than I can sail, but if I was REALLY interested in powerboating I'd own a powerboat and wouldn't be posting ANY of this here. John Cairns |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
You would really be a fool to even attempt to sail
your Mac in 30 kts. To even suggest it implies that you know nothing about sailing. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Peter Wiley wrote: In article , Jonathan Ganz wrote: Sure, I'm bored Jhm. Well, he's good for something, then. My thoughts on his list of points was exactly the same as yours - get a catamaran. As someone else said, let's see that thing plane or move at 18 knots in a nasty chop and 30 knot headwind. Isn't going to happen. PDW \ Actually, I would have reefed a long time before experiencing 30 knot winds in any direction. The Mac has some obvious advantages and also some obvious disadvantages. One of the disadvantages (with respect to sailing in heavy weather offshore) is that it isn't a heavy discplacement boat weighing over 15,000 pounds that can readily handle 30 knot winds. On the other hand, one of its advantages (with respect to 90% of the conditions I expect to sail in) is that it isn't a heavy displacment boat weighing over 15,000 pounds, but can still survive in heavy weather. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
That's a stupid question. Unexpected winds??? What kind of
sailor would not expect conditions such as this? A stupid or inexperienced one. If you were sailing a decent boat, it would survive just about any high winds that come by. A perfect example is the Satori from Perfect Storm fame (not the f*cking movie). -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Now, let me ask you a question. - If you were sailing in a displacemenet boat in unexpected high winds, and you had your son tethered to the boat for safety, and it became obvious that the boat was going to founder, would you prefer that the boat have positive foam flotation, as in the MacGregor, or would you prefer that your son be on a discplacement boat with a heavy keel that would drag the boat and its occupants to the bottom within a few minutes? The obvious solution to your dilemma was to have chosen a marina closer to where you wish to sail. You can drive a car faster than even the motorboat you have chosen will go. I will grant you that if your only criteria was how fast you can motor in your "sailboat", then you have probably chosen wisely. For $30k you could have bought a pretty decent powerboat instead. Live and learn. Then why did you buy one? Felton, I don't like power boats. I want the power capabilities of the Mac because it will enable us to get to good blue water sailing areas more quickly, and also permit us to fish, and let our grandkids play safely in shallow water, or beach the boat. It will also permit us to motor out, do some sailing and some fishing and/or some swimming, and motor back within a few hours, rather than taking the entire weekend. Jim p, "Jim Cate" wrote 6 times... (1) - If the lower hull is compromised, the inner hull remains. |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
They're a piece of junk compared to other boats in the same
price range. Nothing they could have done would improve them enough to justify buying one. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... katysails wrote: I'm of the opinion that the guy is a MacGregor infiltrate, sent by the company to turn the attention of the group on their sorry product... Not at all. However, I am interested in maintaining some balance between differing points of view, and it's obvious that the Mac-Bashers have posted more than their share of notes ridiculing Mac owners in the past few years, despite the fact that most of them know little or nothing about the current model. Hopfully, I can help make up the difference. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Bullsh*t. You need meds.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... I'm still here because it's clear that the ng needs some balance and fresh air and differing viewpoints on some issues. And also because |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
I think you're lying. Prove you aren't.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jonathan Ganz wrote: Prove it. I think you bought it a few weeks ago. I have it on good authority. Prove I'm wrong. I placed the order for the Mac on March 25. My initial note on this ng was posted February 25. Prior to ordering the Mac, I was seriously considering several other boats, as mentioned in some of my other notes posted in February and March. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
Actually, I have talked to an owner. So, I'm not speculating as much as your
limited brain power can imagine. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jonathan Ganz wrote: I try not to speculate too much. Not so. You're willing to speculate all over the place about the 26M, despite the fact that you haven't sailed one or spoken with anyone who has. Jim |
MacGregor 26M - Valiant 40
No. You let it go. You're the newbie fool. You're the one
making an even bigger fool out of himself with each post. I'll be here long after you're gone and your piece of junk is in the trash heap. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jonathan Ganz wrote: Because he's either stupid, a troll, or trying to justify his poor choice. Then why are you sticking around in this discussion, John? Can't let it go? Jim |
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