Excuse me, but I don't recall reading anywhere that the Empire declared war
on the Japanese or the Germans until they had absolutely no choice.Britain
declared war on Japan on December 7th AFTER they had been attacked. Did
Australia or NZ declare war on Japan before that date? As far as the rest
goes, if the European nations hadn't appeased Hitler throughout his
bloodless conquest of Europe, would war have been necessary? Would Hitler
have survived his generals if France had marched into Germany when Germany
reoccupied the Rhineland? How can you criticize the US as being isolationist
when the folks that live right next door don't want to get involved?
John Cairns
Donny's Dilemma wrote in message
...


AFA delaying your entry into war, you delayed getting into Europe when
a quick decision would have ended it all that much faster before the
German army had a stranglehold
AND you delayed entry into the Pacific while thousands were killed by
Jap hands then, after you're directly attacked, decide that you might
have a war on your hands.

Go here and get an education

http://www.minerva.com.au/austwardia...ic/kokoda%20tr
ail.htm
Have a look at the real story Thom.


What I was refering to that brought about your inane rant was that the
story as told appeared a little embelished to achieve a particular
aim....You swallowed it, Choke on it you sanctimonious old fart!


On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:29:01 -0800 (PST), (Thom
Stewart) wrote:

UP YOUR OZZY ASS,

If it wasn't for those dead BOYS you Upside down, backward wise ass
mates would be servicing Jap masters and British would be speaking
German.

The Japs attacked us at Pearl Harbor, in the Pacific and the next day
our Army and Navy set sail. Where, why Europe to fight the Germans. The
English, Aussies, Kiwi were all trying to save "JOLLY OLD" We had to
fight a delaying war in the Pacific so that our real might could go to
Europe.

We lost a lot of young men (BOYS) to save a bunch of backing and
surrendering armies. We had to build our strength to fight a two front
war and save YOUR SORRY ASSES.

OZ, I asked this question before in this group. I'll ask it again;- Can
you, any of you Yank Haters, Name one offensive battle that was won by
the rest of the World's Army before the American got into the WW2? One
battle anywhere that was an attack on a AXIS POWER that took one foot of
territory from the AXIS without the Yanks involvement?

I Don't think you can. You people are great a knocking us. So, I'm
taking this opportunity to tell it as it was. Tell it to the smart asses
that want to forget what they COULDN'T" DO AND WE DID FOR THEM!!!

We can HONOR our heroes any damn well way we want to. WE EARNED IT, WE
PAID FOR IT, AND DAMNIT WE DIED FOR IT!!!

SO UP YOU'RE OZ. , In WW2 you were LOSERS and us YANKS made you WINNERS

AND: "I'LL DRINK TO THAT!!"

Damn that felt good,
Ole Thom



Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Peter Wiley wrote:

This is another occasion where I agree with you, Oz. I hate that.

Ole Thom, the rest of the world knows full well that the USA sat on its
hands while Europe got turned to trash.

That's not a fair statement at all. The USA hardly "sat on it's hands." Ever hear of
Lend-Lease? The strategic planners in the US were getting prepared to fight WW2 as
early as 1936.

Nazi sympathirzers and isolationists in American politics tried very hard to tie
FDR's hands, and to some extent they succeeded. But, would the US Army Air Corp have
bought the B-17 Flying Fortress in depths of the Depression, if somebody didn't see
a big need for it on the horizon?


The only reason you guys
entered the war at all was because the Japanese were foolish enough to
attack you. If they hadn't, you'd have done nothing for years more,
maybe forever. The first bit's fact, the last is speculation based on
your behaviour at the time.

IMHO that's even more ridiculous than any 'Murrikun claiming that the US of A won
the war single-handed. There is no way the United States would have avoided entering
the war on the side of the Allies.



However, you never had your people killed in things like the Sandakan
death march, Changi or a lot of other places. You sat all that stuff
out. We have long & bitter memories of WW2. The Japanese treated our
POW's atrociously. You guys let a lot of them off after the war was
over because the politics had changed.

And possibly, by sidetracking this darker side of human nature, we averted an even
more disastrous WW3. Revenge and reparations are what brought on the Depression and
WW2.

I'd prefer to not see two sets of blindly patriotic brinksmen shout at each other,
the facts are both more interesting & more useful.

Regards
Doug King

(Thom Stewart) wrote in message ...
UP YOUR OZZY ASS,

Hey Ole Thom,

I missed it. What did that piece of **** OZZY say?

You should re-post it so the rest of the world can see what a low
life , scumbag he is.

Joe
MSV RedCloud



If it wasn't for those dead BOYS you Upside down, backward wise ass
mates would be servicing Jap masters and British would be speaking
German.

The Japs attacked us at Pearl Harbor, in the Pacific and the next day
our Army and Navy set sail. Where, why Europe to fight the Germans. The
English, Aussies, Kiwi were all trying to save "JOLLY OLD" We had to
fight a delaying war in the Pacific so that our real might could go to
Europe.

We lost a lot of young men (BOYS) to save a bunch of backing and
surrendering armies. We had to build our strength to fight a two front
war and save YOUR SORRY ASSES.

OZ, I asked this question before in this group. I'll ask it again;- Can
you, any of you Yank Haters, Name one offensive battle that was won by
the rest of the World's Army before the American got into the WW2? One
battle anywhere that was an attack on a AXIS POWER that took one foot of
territory from the AXIS without the Yanks involvement?

I Don't think you can. You people are great a knocking us. So, I'm
taking this opportunity to tell it as it was. Tell it to the smart asses
that want to forget what they COULDN'T" DO AND WE DID FOR THEM!!!

We can HONOR our heroes any damn well way we want to. WE EARNED IT, WE
PAID FOR IT, AND DAMNIT WE DIED FOR IT!!!

SO UP YOU'RE OZ. , In WW2 you were LOSERS and us YANKS made you WINNERS

AND: "I'LL DRINK TO THAT!!"

Damn that felt good,
Ole Thom

Joe,

OZ replied to your story about Iwo Jama like he was talking about a
Hollywood Movie;

Quote OZ, "Damn, and he did it all in a monologue with flags waving in
the background."

I took exception to his belittling remark and reminded him of a few
facts that they have been trying to forget for a half a century.

They go on and on about knocking us "Yanks" our President, Our
government, our morals anything American. They want us to let them have
free shot at us but scream like hell when we remind them of a few fact
about themselves.

What is really sick is their silly replies.
Things like we sat on our hands until the Jap attack us. They don't want
to remember Pearl Harbor and they don't want us to either.
They can remember Their "Death March" but don't want to remember the
"Bataan Death March"

They really seem to think that it was our obligation to defend them,
when they couldn't or wouldn't do it for themselves

I've asked our critics to tell me what they done in WW2 for themselves
before we got in the War. They post about how they fought the Germans in
North Africa but they can't seem to understand that they let the German
get control of that whole area. They sure a hell don't remember the
Americans invading Casa Blanca and TOGETHER we drove the Hun back into
Europe.

They talk about Stalingrad but they seem to forget that we agreed, at
Pottsdam, with Stalin to open a second front to ease the pressure on the
Soviet (Normandy)

They (Our Critics) seem to resent us remembering TRUE history. They want
to remember History as they want it to be.
They can't except the fact that they were Losers in WW2 until America
became involved. They hadn't shown any, (Zero) offensive action until
the YANK took over.
Now, after the fact, they try to say we didn't get in the War until near
the End.
WE GOT IN AND ENDED THE DAMN WAR!!!

Now when we show our PRIDE it seems to bother them, Screw them (The
misguided Critics)

"REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR!!!"
we will always remember how they died for Liberty!!! We will alway
remember those American Grave all over the World that are there because
the World couldn't take care of itself;

"I'LL DRINK TO THAT!!!"
Ole Thom

This is Ole Fart,

You poor sad Aussy Cry Baby, I requested one victory won that gained
one single yard of Axis territory before you had the YANKS on your side.
I'm still waiting

You talk about embellishment on Joe's story. Holy ****, read those
diaries you sent me to read, they are nothing but embellishment about
defeats. Also, check the dates on those stories. For your information
the Yanks were involved in that victory in New Guinea

Your boys fought a hell of a fight there. They gave the Jap everything
they got from them and more. You have a Right to be proud of them but so
do we. We brought your forces relief

I also know your people welcomed our defeated Army with open arms and
let us lick our wounds under your care. I REMEMBER IT with pride for
your people. Without AUSSIE help and the foothold they gave us, I'm not
sure how we would have fought back. Fought back we did Island by Island
right to the Jap Homeland in an Offensive War. In the Islands, in Burma,
in China.

It was the Yanks that turned WW2 Allied Forces into an Offences Force.
That is the FACT. Everywhere but in the Soviet. The Russians turn
themselves into an offence unit. That is another story. It's called the
Cold WAR.

Ole Thom

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Now when we show our PRIDE it seems to bother them, Screw them (The
misguided Critics)


Thom, I don't think that your pride is what causes offence.

The offence is caused by your apparent contempt for the efforts, suffering,
and 40(?) million non-Americans.

You are correct to feel enormous pride in what you, and your country did.
You are wrong to belittle the contributions made other nations.


"REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR!!!"
we will always remember how they died for Liberty!!! We will alway
remember those American Grave all over the World

Good sentiment,

that are there because
the World couldn't take care of itself;

Bad sentiment!! This last part is pure conjecture, and very offensive.


Regards


Donal
--

Peter Wiley wrote in message ...
This is another occasion where I agree with you, Oz. I hate that.

No kiddin, show just how stupid you are.


However, you never had your people killed in things like the Sandakan
death march, Changi or a lot of other places.

Peter,

Did you ever hear of the Battan death march? My grandfather was
there, and had several friends killed along the march. He was in the
PI as an oilfield worker and was given a line commission a week after
the japs attacked pearl harbor.

He spent the war as a POW at Sinagowa and I could go indepth about the
torture he received.

Do you know anyone that has been tied to a chair and had his legs
broken with a cast iron fire thongs. Grandpa did. He wasent a happy
camper about it, the only thing good that came out of it was he got to
go to the war crime trials in Tokyo and got to see the sorry jap that
did it hanged. All over stolen rice, stolen by Japs citizens that
worked at the camp


You sat all that stuff
out. We have long & bitter memories of WW2. The Japanese treated our
POW's atrociously. You guys let a lot of them off after the war was
over because the politics had changed.


We killed the worst of them.

We brought troops home from the Middle East to fight in the Pacific. We
were fighting the Axis powers in Africa while you guys were watching
from the sidelines and we fought them to a standstill with no help at
all from you. A lot of the countries down this way are still wary of us
because they know what we did and what we could do again if we decided
it was necessary. We had a lot of experience in jungle warfare while
you guys stayed home.


In other words you were useless until the USA stepped in and saved
you sorry asses huh?



FYI, it's also a matter of historic record that the Japanese weren't
going to try to take Australia. They just wanted us out of Asia. We
stopped them in PNG with little/no help from you guys.

It's real easy, Thom, to claim that nobody won an offensive battle
without the USA. Real easy - considering you sat it out until the tide
had turned.

Peter Wiley


Keep dreaming you un-grateful ****!


Joe
MSV RedCloud


In article , Donny's
Dilemma wrote:

I'm getting horribly sick of you waving your flag and claiming the US
won the war single handed.
Take a look at the losses of ANZAC troops during the war in Europe and
the Pacific,,,,all from a nation with a population of less that 6
million at the time.
The Japs attacked us in Darwin and in Sydney...you have no clue old
man other than the patriotic bull**** you've been feeding on all your
life.

AFA delaying your entry into war, you delayed getting into Europe when
a quick decision would have ended it all that much faster before the
German army had a stranglehold
AND you delayed entry into the Pacific while thousands were killed by
Jap hands then, after you're directly attacked, decide that you might
have a war on your hands.

Go here and get an education

http://www.minerva.com.au/austwardia.../kokoda%20trai
l.htm
Have a look at the real story Thom.


What I was refering to that brought about your inane rant was that the
story as told appeared a little embelished to achieve a particular
aim....You swallowed it, Choke on it you sanctimonious old fart!


On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:29:01 -0800 (PST), (Thom
Stewart) wrote:

UP YOUR OZZY ASS,

If it wasn't for those dead BOYS you Upside down, backward wise ass
mates would be servicing Jap masters and British would be speaking
German.

The Japs attacked us at Pearl Harbor, in the Pacific and the next day
our Army and Navy set sail. Where, why Europe to fight the Germans. The
English, Aussies, Kiwi were all trying to save "JOLLY OLD" We had to
fight a delaying war in the Pacific so that our real might could go to
Europe.

We lost a lot of young men (BOYS) to save a bunch of backing and
surrendering armies. We had to build our strength to fight a two front
war and save YOUR SORRY ASSES.

OZ, I asked this question before in this group. I'll ask it again;- Can
you, any of you Yank Haters, Name one offensive battle that was won by
the rest of the World's Army before the American got into the WW2? One
battle anywhere that was an attack on a AXIS POWER that took one foot of
territory from the AXIS without the Yanks involvement?

I Don't think you can. You people are great a knocking us. So, I'm
taking this opportunity to tell it as it was. Tell it to the smart asses
that want to forget what they COULDN'T" DO AND WE DID FOR THEM!!!

We can HONOR our heroes any damn well way we want to. WE EARNED IT, WE
PAID FOR IT, AND DAMNIT WE DIED FOR IT!!!

SO UP YOU'RE OZ. , In WW2 you were LOSERS and us YANKS made you WINNERS

AND: "I'LL DRINK TO THAT!!"

Damn that felt good,
Ole Thom



Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Why don't you get her books on tape or CD? Worked for my
dad... kept him going for quite a while.

Donny's Dilemma wrote in message
...

Thom, something you might be interested in.

Just got off the phone to my mum, I ring her every day or so as she's
nearly blind now and her health is failing pretty fast. Sharp as a
tack but her body is letting her down and now that her lifeblood,
reading, has gone, her spirit is flagging as well.

Anyway, our conversation here came up and she started talking about
her dad "Farv" we called him a name taken from the way his first
grandson, me, used the word "grandfather" when I first spoke to him.

To the point...
She mentioned that he never spoke of Australian, English,American nor
any other force individually,

He always referred the them as Allies, he saw the armies as one.

She then mentioned that he always referred to Gurkha troops as
"Gurkhas" out of respect for theirloyalty and resolve.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Peter,

Your historical facts? Geez are they really screw up. Things in the
Pacific didn't turn around until after the "Battle of Midway"
A 100% Yankee operation. Your quoting facts that just aren't true.

Pearl Harbor date Dec 7 th, 1941. That was the Day that will live in
Infamy. When you use some of these God-knows where you get your fact,
please check the dates!

Again, I'll say it again. List a battle that was of a Offensive Nature
that was a Victory against the Axis Power before that date; (Dec 7,
1941) If your fact are correct and the Tide had changed as you say, You
should have no problem stating where you stated pushing the Japs back to
their Island Empire.

If you can't then I believe you can't say the War had change in the
Allies favor. Then you should give the Yanks some credit. If you can't
then;

SHUT THE HELL UP

Ole Thom

Peter,

Once again you say we let a lot of "them go" Peter I was in WW2 and we
put a lot of JAP to death. How many did you Down-under fighters sentence
to death?

Don't make stupid statements about the Yanks when you've fallen way
short of their actions.

This whole discussion came about because of a stupid comment by OZ about
a story of American Pride at the statue of the Flag Rising at Iwo Jima.
Your statement are even dumber. If you're upset by my replies then prove
them wrong. If not except them, as OZ thought he'd get away with his
SNIDE comment about Joe's posting.

Ole Thom