In article ,
Thom Stewart wrote:

Peter,

Once again you say we let a lot of "them go" Peter I was in WW2 and we
put a lot of JAP to death. How many did you Down-under fighters sentence
to death?

Who was in control of Japan, Thom? You guys were. And the Aussies shot
a lot of the Japanese out of hand. We tried others, found them guilty
and dealt with them. But *you* guys controlled the Japanese homeland.

Don't make stupid statements about the Yanks when you've fallen way
short of their actions.

Thom, we had a population of 6 million people. What was the population
of the USA in 1941? We were in the *World War* 2 years before you were.
The Japanese had invaded mainland China - Rape of Nanking mean anything
to you? - Manchuria, earlier part of what was then Imperial Russia.
They were aggressive and expansion-minded. Given our population base
and resources, I don't reckon we fell short of the USA at all. We were
fighting for 2 years while you stayed home.

The British had stripped the Far Eastern areas of troops to fight the
war in Europe. You know, the one that had been going for 2 years by
then, the one you were watching from the sidelines. Us Australians
went. The Kiwis went. You guys stayed home. You didn't watch your own
backs but ran a half-hearted economic blockade against the Japanese.
They decided to expand their empire, knocked out your Pacific Fleet
with that surprise attack on Pearl Harbour and went for broke. That's
what finally woke you up. Churchill offered what forces he could &
joined the war against the Japanese - and the British got smashed at
Singapore, the Dutch throughout the Indonesian archipelago, the
Americans out of the Philippines, etc etc. The Japanese were fast,
aggressive, and *good*. What brought them unstuck eventually was
logistics and population - too small an industrial base, too few people
to do the work, too much territory with long supply lines. What finally
brought them unstuck was technology - 2 bombs.

This whole discussion came about because of a stupid comment by OZ about
a story of American Pride at the statue of the Flag Rising at Iwo Jima.
Your statement are even dumber.

Yeah? In your opinion. Which, on this topic, is worthless. I've been to
Guadalcanal, seen the war remains, dived on the wrecks. From what I've
seen, read & heard, the US Marines did an unbelievably good job,
unbelievably good, taking those islands back from the Japanese. I have
nothing but respect for that effort. However, you go way too far. Think
about this. Had the British, Australians, Canadians, New Zealanders
joined with the Japanese against the USA, do you think you'd have
gotten the Philippines back again? You'd have had the Hawaiian islands
as a base with a long logistic tail and everything else on the west
coast of the USA. Everyone could have kept submarines parked around
Hawaii. You never would have managed it. You guys were relying on our
troops on the ground, our coastal bases and our local logistics to
support the war effort in the Pacific and some acknowledgement of this
instead of your self-righteous posturing is damn well overdue.

If you're upset by my replies then prove
them wrong.

See Oz's references for the number of troops from various countries in
the Pacific.

I've said all I'm going to say. Arguing with a self-righteous ignoramus
just brings to ming the old saying about attempting to teach a pig to
sing.

Peter Wiley

Donal,

I sorry I didn't answer your question about defeating the Japs without
help

The answer is YES!! We knew it and the Japs also knew it. They were
hoping for a negotiated peace to break the trade imbargo FDR had declare
between the two countries.

They never expected we would fight a two fronted war with enemies 1/2
way around the world. At no time did the sensible leader of Japan think
they would defeat the US

OT

OZ,

Your post is making my point, Buddy. We were in the war. America was it
the war being lead by a Yank . The Battle that turned the Tide was
Midway. A naval battle. Jap and Yank ships. Straight up, nose to nose.

Mac inthe Pacific; Ike in Europe. Even Churchill know enough to pick the
right leader. Montgomery never recovered!

You can now wave the flag, a WHITE ONE!!

Ole Thom

Oz.,

The Yanks know when the Japs where in China. They sunk the American Gun
Boat, USS Panay. Not sure of this but I think it was in 1939.

Ole Thom

"Donal" wrote in message ...
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Again, I'll say it again. List a battle that was of a Offensive Nature
that was a Victory against the Axis Power before that date; (Dec 7,
1941) If your fact are correct and the Tide had changed as you say, You
should have no problem stating where you stated pushing the Japs back to
their Island Empire.

Thom,
You give the impression that you think that America would have won the war
without any help.

Do you believe that the US would have defeated the Japs without any
assistance?

I do! No if and or butts about it.

Joe




Regards


Donal
--

Yes Oz,

They won a Kokoda; under American Command in 1942. A hell of a fight it
was too. It was a year after the Yanks were in the war. Taking nothing
away from the Aussie Troops but as I said, give me a battle it equal
before America's entry?
They became WINNERS under McArthur.
Oz I got out there after Guadacanal and You would never believe the
pride all the troops had for the New Guinea Vets.Army
Navy,Air force, to a man they admired. That my friend was the beginning
of the End for Japan. New Guinea, the Canal and the Navy, shutting down
the reinforcement of the Jap Garrissions. It was an Allied Victory. Oz,
it was after Midway. The Yanks were now on the team. We took out Three
of their Carriers at Midway and they never had air superiority again.
This was when we were their equal "IN THE SLOT" the tide had turned and
it probably pivoted on New Guinea. As I said before your boys gave back
everything the Japs had and did it in Spades.

Dear MC,

No I have not forgotten North Africa but a do believe you have. Do you
remember the American Invasion and Casa Blanca. That my friend was in
North Africa and introduced General Patton to the Desert Fox.

Rommel was driven out of Africa by Patton and Monty. You Baiters keep
coming up with Battles after the Yank were involve.

It was during the North African Fighting that Ike became Commanding
General

Do you remember now?

Ole Thom

"Donal" wrote in message ...
Donny's Dilemma wrote in message
...
On 11 Dec 2003 12:43:48 -0800, (Joe) wrote:
Have you ever heard of it?

6 of 2400 Australian prisoners survived

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-...2/sandakan.htm



Read it, .... had to respond, ...... but can't think of anything to say!


Regards




Donal,

The ****in japs did this everywere. Over 80% of americans taken
prisoner by them were died while captive.

They were sorry **** balls worse than hitlers worst. I think less
than 5% of american captured by the germans died as captives. Ever
read about the raping of Naking(sp). Ever seen pictures of the sorry
ass MF's smashing babies against tree trunks. Ever see the bridge of
bodies? Sword practice on POW's? Want me to post pictures for you?
Your God damn right we would of beat the japs without anyone's help at
all if needed. How they ever got to the position they are in now is
beyond me. My grandpa was slave labor for mitsubishi(sp)every time I
see one I cant help but wanting to key it. He was an engineer put in
charge of setting up manfacturing equipment and was proud of putting
key parts into the cement foundations, mis aligning equipment and
doing everything he could to screw thing up and get away with without
getting killed. To bad we did not have 10 atomic bombs ready to go at
the time. I can respect the way the Japs fought, but the inhumanity to
un-armed POW's and civalians is beyond my understanding.

Joe


--

Dear Thom,
I was just dealing with your claim that no offensive battle was won
against the axis powers before Dec 7th 1941 and now I've given you a
theatre where some impressuive voctoies were made. To ignore the
importance of Nth Africa in WW2 would be most foolish doncha think?
Now what about all the Naval battles where the British fleets were
nearly always on the offensive???

I'm not taking away anything from the US contribution but trying to deal
with facts.

Cheers MC




Thom Stewart wrote:
Dear MC,

No I have not forgotten North Africa but a do believe you have. Do you
remember the American Invasion and Casa Blanca. That my friend was in
North Africa and introduced General Patton to the Desert Fox.

Rommel was driven out of Africa by Patton and Monty. You Baiters keep
coming up with Battles after the Yank were involve.

It was during the North African Fighting that Ike became Commanding
General

Do you remember now?

Ole Thom

Christ Peter,

Your like Oz alright. Your last post blows your case to hell.

We weren't in charge in Japan. It was the Allies that were in command.
It was an unconditional surrender to the Allied Forces/ under command of
an Army General (McArthur) on a Navy Ship. The trials were by a Allied
Court

Go to your room and do you homework.

Ole Thom