"Mike Buckley" wrote in message
...
Hmmm - I've paddled the Leny many times over many years and NEVER had any
problems.

I take your point Mike but I think you may well have the experience to avoid
the difficulties. You also know when it is too high to be safe - the Leny
rises fairly quickly if there is heavy rainfall. But as a river to
recommend to someone who is looking for a grade I or II this must be a
complete no. It is possible to die on the falls if you miss the take out
beforehand. So definitely not for someone on their first trip without an
experienced guide and for me that means at least with the ability if not the
qualification of level 4 coach.

Broooz wrote in message
...
"Mike Buckley" wrote in message
...
Hmmm - I've paddled the Leny many times over many years and NEVER had
any
problems.

I take your point Mike but I think you may well have the experience to
avoid
the difficulties. You also know when it is too high to be safe - the Leny
rises fairly quickly if there is heavy rainfall. But as a river to
recommend to someone who is looking for a grade I or II this must be a
complete no. It is possible to die on the falls if you miss the take out
beforehand. So definitely not for someone on their first trip without an
experienced guide and for me that means at least with the ability if not
the
qualification of level 4 coach.


Hmmm - I wonder if the plot / context isn't being lost here! LBL replied (in
perhaps a less than constructive fashion) to the ACCESS discussion in tones
that could be interpreted as being indicative of there being a problme with
ACCESS on the Leny "at the moment".

Now maybe there is, maybe not. In any case, "paddling" the Leny "without
(access) problems" - which I have - I am not aware of any access problems,
unless things have changed in the last few months - is different to paddling
the Leny and needing to be aware of its inherent risks.

However, in low water, *below* the Falls, I would suggest that any resonably
competent paddler with some moving water experience will have no difficulty
whatsover, normal "rules" regarding commonsense and an appreciation of ones
own ability taken into account of course. It'll be a bumpy scrape, but a
pretty one. The Teith will be a very bumpy scrape but a very pretty one.

Paddling *above* the Falls on the Leny is certainly not something to suggest
to anyone, especially anyone uncertain of their own abilitites and lacking
knowledge of the river. The consequences of getting it wrong above the Falls
are potentially lethal. And in high water that river moves very fast indeed.

For the record, I have paddled the Leny without having an access problem,
but having to deal with a few paddlign problems. Different subject -
different context.

Incidentally, the Nith has adequate water between Drumlandrig and Dumfries
for a gentle and scenic float. The rest of it is a dry ditch and it would
prpbably be easier to walk the gorge than paddle it today!

Mike.

Mike I think you may have missed the context on this one. When I read
LittleBoyLuke's message I read the first 2 lines as referring to the
fact that there is no problem with access in Scotland and the third line
as meaning the Leny is dry. In fact, given the first 2 lines, your
interpretation doesn't make sense to me, but then you probably know I
think a bit weird anyway :-)

Anyway, the original poster said he wasn't wanting to do the Leny so why
are we wasting time discussing it anyway??????

But before I forget, Mike - the S-bend is below the falls, and whilst
not a challenge when the river is dry it is probably the hardest rapid
apart from the falls when the stopper is working. Better make sure you
advise people how to look for it and get on below (it's only about 100
yards past the falls) if you are going to recommend below the falls as a
beginner section!

JIM

Mike Buckley wrote:

Hmmm - I wonder if the plot / context isn't being lost here! LBL replied (in
perhaps a less than constructive fashion) to the ACCESS discussion in tones
that could be interpreted as being indicative of there being a problme with
ACCESS on the Leny "at the moment".

Jim Wallis wrote in message
news:b63rhb.417.ln@Eskdale...
Mike I think you may have missed the context on this one. When I read
LittleBoyLuke's message I read the first 2 lines as referring to the
fact that there is no problem with access in Scotland and the third line
as meaning the Leny is dry. In fact, given the first 2 lines, your
interpretation doesn't make sense to me, but then you probably know I
think a bit weird anyway :-)

No, I dont think I have missed the context. LBL's reply specificlly refers
to "access" issues and he is replying to my post on the subject, specifially
access.

As to his third line, one could safely assume that, in the absence of any
indication to the contrary, he was also refering to access issues especially
as he had not indicated otherwise. So, as there aren't any access issues on
the Leny, the entire thread becomes void.

As to "weirdness" - I couldn't possibly comment, never having met you. One
mans weird is another mans normal is another mans ordinary and as weirdness
is therefore clearly in the mind of the beholder, it would be safe to assume
that if I thought you were weird, then perhaps I could be thought of in the
same vein.

(Incidentally - I have however met the esteemed D W (of photo fame in
another place) - some may say he is weird but I found him charming and
pleasant company!)


Anyway, the original poster said he wasn't wanting to do the Leny so why
are we wasting time discussing it anyway??????

Good point - still, meaningless debate is such fun.

But before I forget, Mike - the S-bend is below the falls, and whilst
not a challenge when the river is dry it is probably the hardest rapid
apart from the falls when the stopper is working. Better make sure you
advise people how to look for it and get on below (it's only about 100
yards past the falls) if you are going to recommend below the falls as a
beginner section!


Thats a very good point. I'm not sure I'm recommending the Leny as a
"beginner section" in fairness - in low water its a river that an
intermediate/improving river paddler can get a lot out of. The S-bend is
clearly visible (and worth inspecting) from the road a few hundred meters
before the car-park at the Falls. On the river, its marked by foaming white
water at high levels and an obvious rock-garden with the main rock clealry
visible river right just below the end of the drop proper.

All that said, I still maintain that its an acceptable run at low levels for
all but the very newest of paddlers. No doubt we can enter into a lenghty
debate about what defines a beginner / new(est) paddler(s).


Mike.

"Mike Buckley" wrote in message
...

All that said, I still maintain that its an acceptable run at low levels
for
all but the very newest of paddlers. No doubt we can enter into a lenghty
debate about what defines a beginner / new(est) paddler(s).

This is where I would strongly argue for exercising caution. If you are
offering advice to someone of unknown standard (or in this case someone who
wanted a grade I or II river) it is dangerous to suggest a grade III plus
river. Instead you should assume the river is virtually a river beginner to
be safe. Arguably you have no legal duty of care in respect of someone
reading this newsgroup but you certainly have a moral duty to look after
their welfare.

To advise anyone in this situation that the Leny is gentle apart from the
falls is liable to lead to an accident if they take your advice.

Broooz

Mike Buckley wrote:

As to "weirdness" - I couldn't possibly comment, never having met you. One
mans weird is another mans normal is another mans ordinary and as weirdness
is therefore clearly in the mind of the beholder, it would be safe to assume
that if I thought you were weird, then perhaps I could be thought of in the
same vein.

Oh come on, even I've noticed that I go off at random tangents with
slightest provocation, or even without any provocation :-)

As for the whole LBL thing (actually the way you and I can split hairs
is fairly weird too) - he hasn't quoted anything and in my newsreader
his post appears to be a reply to the original, not yours. Which just
goes to show what a mess you can get into by replying without quoting or
at least expanding into full sentences that can be read standalone :-)
Lets face it, his post was neither composed, in any way useful, or even
coherent so lets just forget about it!

I should really plan some sea kayaking down on the Solway to meet up
with some of these people I keep corresponding with but have absolutely
no idea who they even are!

JIM

Jim Wallis wrote in message
news:tuvthb.tjf.ln@Eskdale...
Mike Buckley wrote:

As to "weirdness" - I couldn't possibly comment, never having met you.
One
mans weird is another mans normal is another mans ordinary and as
weirdness
is therefore clearly in the mind of the beholder, it would be safe to
assume
that if I thought you were weird, then perhaps I could be thought of in
the
same vein.

Oh come on, even I've noticed that I go off at random tangents with
slightest provocation, or even without any provocation :-)

Random? Tangents? You? - Never!

As for the whole LBL thing (actually the way you and I can split hairs
is fairly weird too) - he hasn't quoted anything and in my newsreader
his post appears to be a reply to the original, not yours. Which just
goes to show what a mess you can get into by replying without quoting or
at least expanding into full sentences that can be read standalone :-)
Lets face it, his post was neither composed, in any way useful, or even
coherent so lets just forget about it!

Ahhhhh - I was begining to think we could return to the "good old days". Oh
well - back to reality. Now then - hair splitting - was that a two way split
or shall we attempt the little achieved 8 way diagonal, cross-hair split?

I should really plan some sea kayaking down on the Solway to meet up
with some of these people I keep corresponding with but have absolutely
no idea who they even are!

Indeed - and had you come on the SCA Solway trip, not only would you have
had a really nice weekend with some great crack, but you'd have met at least
two "net" correspondents over the course of the weekend!

JIM

Mike.