Bother? What "bother" is that then? This is Scotland we're talking about and
we don't have an access problem!

Loch Lubnaig and Loch Ard. Loch Tay and Loch Earn. No probs there.

Pop across to Perth and do the Tay from Stanley to Thistlebrigg. Minor probs
at Stanley but you'll be within your legal rights.

If the Leny is low, its relativly gentle (ex the Falls of course). The Teith
from Callander down to the take out which is by the Quarry entrance and just
below the last rapids would also fit your criteria very well.

Dumfries - paddle Loch Ken. Also consider the Nith - especially the
Drumlanrig Bridge to Thornhill section or on to the bridge at Auldgirth. If
you want to play on the Caul at Dumfries you'll find DKC there most Tuesdays
about 6.30ish.

Border Esk is gentle-ish - one nasty droppy bit.

Have fun - Mike.


Ewan Scott wrote in message
om...
Going home to Callander and later to Dumfries next week. I'd intended
taking boats with us and doing some paddling but after checking out
the access pages on the Scotish Canoe Union site it looks like an
awful lot of bother.

We might well do some on Loch Lubnaig, but wouldn't mind trying some
gentler stretches of river Grade 1/2, or somewhere where we could
play about below falls in relative safety. ie running the Leny is not
an option.

Ewan Scott

Bother ?

Your avin a larf!

As for the lenny at the moment, your being a real joker.

(LittleBoyLuke) wrote in message ...
Bother ?

Your avin a larf!

As for the lenny at the moment, your being a real joker.

That's very helpful of you.

Ewan Scott

Hmmm - I've paddled the Leny many times over many years and NEVER had any
problems. Likewise Loch Lubnaig - although there I did once have a
discussion with a "keeper" type who attempted to stop me paddling. Being
both aware of my legal rights and fairly forthright in dealing with
officialdom, I paddled that day and have done so since.

However, as you clearly have a depth of greater knowledge and
more-up-to-date understanding of the specific area (its maybe 6 months since
I was on the Leny), can you share. That would be most helpful and I'm sure
that Ewan would find it helpful.

Many thanks.


LittleBoyLuke wrote in message
...
Bother ?

Your avin a larf!

As for the lenny at the moment, your being a real joker.

"Mike Buckley" wrote in message
...
Hmmm - I've paddled the Leny many times over many years and NEVER had any
problems.

I take your point Mike but I think you may well have the experience to avoid
the difficulties. You also know when it is too high to be safe - the Leny
rises fairly quickly if there is heavy rainfall. But as a river to
recommend to someone who is looking for a grade I or II this must be a
complete no. It is possible to die on the falls if you miss the take out
beforehand. So definitely not for someone on their first trip without an
experienced guide and for me that means at least with the ability if not the
qualification of level 4 coach.

Broooz wrote in message
...
"Mike Buckley" wrote in message
...
Hmmm - I've paddled the Leny many times over many years and NEVER had
any
problems.

I take your point Mike but I think you may well have the experience to
avoid
the difficulties. You also know when it is too high to be safe - the Leny
rises fairly quickly if there is heavy rainfall. But as a river to
recommend to someone who is looking for a grade I or II this must be a
complete no. It is possible to die on the falls if you miss the take out
beforehand. So definitely not for someone on their first trip without an
experienced guide and for me that means at least with the ability if not
the
qualification of level 4 coach.


Hmmm - I wonder if the plot / context isn't being lost here! LBL replied (in
perhaps a less than constructive fashion) to the ACCESS discussion in tones
that could be interpreted as being indicative of there being a problme with
ACCESS on the Leny "at the moment".

Now maybe there is, maybe not. In any case, "paddling" the Leny "without
(access) problems" - which I have - I am not aware of any access problems,
unless things have changed in the last few months - is different to paddling
the Leny and needing to be aware of its inherent risks.

However, in low water, *below* the Falls, I would suggest that any resonably
competent paddler with some moving water experience will have no difficulty
whatsover, normal "rules" regarding commonsense and an appreciation of ones
own ability taken into account of course. It'll be a bumpy scrape, but a
pretty one. The Teith will be a very bumpy scrape but a very pretty one.

Paddling *above* the Falls on the Leny is certainly not something to suggest
to anyone, especially anyone uncertain of their own abilitites and lacking
knowledge of the river. The consequences of getting it wrong above the Falls
are potentially lethal. And in high water that river moves very fast indeed.

For the record, I have paddled the Leny without having an access problem,
but having to deal with a few paddlign problems. Different subject -
different context.

Incidentally, the Nith has adequate water between Drumlandrig and Dumfries
for a gentle and scenic float. The rest of it is a dry ditch and it would
prpbably be easier to walk the gorge than paddle it today!

Mike.

Mike I think you may have missed the context on this one. When I read
LittleBoyLuke's message I read the first 2 lines as referring to the
fact that there is no problem with access in Scotland and the third line
as meaning the Leny is dry. In fact, given the first 2 lines, your
interpretation doesn't make sense to me, but then you probably know I
think a bit weird anyway :-)

Anyway, the original poster said he wasn't wanting to do the Leny so why
are we wasting time discussing it anyway??????

But before I forget, Mike - the S-bend is below the falls, and whilst
not a challenge when the river is dry it is probably the hardest rapid
apart from the falls when the stopper is working. Better make sure you
advise people how to look for it and get on below (it's only about 100
yards past the falls) if you are going to recommend below the falls as a
beginner section!

JIM

Mike Buckley wrote:

Hmmm - I wonder if the plot / context isn't being lost here! LBL replied (in
perhaps a less than constructive fashion) to the ACCESS discussion in tones
that could be interpreted as being indicative of there being a problme with
ACCESS on the Leny "at the moment".

Mike Buckley wrote:

Pop across to Perth and do the Tay from Stanley to Thistlebrigg. Minor probs
at Stanley but you'll be within your legal rights.

But why not go from Islamouth? no probs at all with access from the
field by the bridge at the bottom of the Meikleour Beech Hedge (it's
okay to park there, just close the gate), and it makes it an actual trip
rather than a brief hack...

You'll need to set up a road-ferry, of course, but it's in reasonable
cycle range if you don't have two cars between you.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Crikey Mike, you start off with a very well reasoned post and then chuck
in the Leny!

I've done the Leny fairly low and it's helluva rocky, with the water
levels we have now I doubt if there would be what I would even consider
a river. Even if it was barely trickling it's going to be harder than
grade 1/2, but for the main I just wouldn't even consider it unless it
rains, when it is definitely harder (I'm being realistic about what I
consider an easy fun run here).

To be honest I can't think of much that would suit you, the Tay
obviously has plenty of stretches (Grandtully might just be too much for
you but all the rest should be fine at summer levels) And the only place
where access is at all contested is at Stanley, and I've only ever met
the protagonist once in all my trips there, and even then he doesn't
have a right to prevent you getting on, and as has been stated there are
alternative get ons if you want a longer trip. I don't know what
gear/experience you have but Grantully is usually busy through the
summer and if there isn't a race on you might feel safe enough playing
on it and getting tips from other people - only problem may be that not
all slalom paddlers have a high tolerance of people learning to paddle
where they are training :-(

I've only done the Teith quite high and I found it tedious, (OK it''s
not my style of river but...) I would think it would be a bump and
scrape nightmare at summer levels - but I don't know.

There must be some paddling on the Forth but I've only ever heard of one
ill-planned trip where the stretch turned out to be considerably further
than expected, that was a scout trip I think so if you plan a decent
length section it should be alright :-)

Other than those I don't think there are any rivers worth doing near
Callander, although there are of course plenty of Lochs.

Personally I'd bring mountain bikes and go exploring the Trossachs / QE
Forest etc. Don't bother asking for information about trails, they only
tell you about fire roads (which are boring), for singletrack just take
a map, compass and a healthy respect for any walkers you meet and do it.
It's kind of a shame that the Forestry people haven't developed some
decent singletrack in the Trossachs, many other forests have well
developed routes but apart from Glentress the Trossachs seems to have
the most mountain bikers, and the least routes!

I reckon Mike's covered Dumfries pretty well, except to say that sea
touring on the Solway Firth seems pretty good if you have suitable boats
/ weather - I don't know if you have the experience for that? Of course
I can't believe the lower Nith will have any water (except very close to
Dumfries), the gorge may have enough water but that's not the
recommended bit :-)

Good luck

JIM

Mike Buckley wrote:

Bother? What "bother" is that then? This is Scotland we're talking about and
we don't have an access problem!

Loch Lubnaig and Loch Ard. Loch Tay and Loch Earn. No probs there.

Pop across to Perth and do the Tay from Stanley to Thistlebrigg. Minor probs
at Stanley but you'll be within your legal rights.

If the Leny is low, its relativly gentle (ex the Falls of course). The Teith
from Callander down to the take out which is by the Quarry entrance and just
below the last rapids would also fit your criteria very well.

Dumfries - paddle Loch Ken. Also consider the Nith - especially the
Drumlanrig Bridge to Thornhill section or on to the bridge at Auldgirth. If
you want to play on the Caul at Dumfries you'll find DKC there most Tuesdays
about 6.30ish.

Border Esk is gentle-ish - one nasty droppy bit.

Have fun - Mike.


Ewan Scott wrote in message
om...

Going home to Callander and later to Dumfries next week. I'd intended
taking boats with us and doing some paddling but after checking out
the access pages on the Scotish Canoe Union site it looks like an
awful lot of bother.

We might well do some on Loch Lubnaig, but wouldn't mind trying some
gentler stretches of river Grade 1/2, or somewhere where we could
play about below falls in relative safety. ie running the Leny is not
an option.

Ewan Scott