In Derek Hutchinson’s book, “The Complete Book of Sea Kayaking”, on page
48 while talking about nose clips he states “…in some cases sudden death
has been caused by water being driven up the nose”. Really? It makes
it sound like we cheat death by not wearing a nose plug.

IMO the book is less than impressive, some interesting material, but a
lot of “look at me” stuff like he wants to score points to nail some
kayaking chicks.

Has anyone heard of death by water being driven up the nose while
kayaking?

"Andy Baxter" wrote in message
...


In Derek Hutchinson’s book, “The Complete Book of Sea Kayaking”, on page
48 while talking about nose clips he states “…in some cases sudden death
has been caused by water being driven up the nose”. Really? It makes it
sound like we cheat death by not wearing a nose plug.

IMO the book is less than impressive, some interesting material, but a lot
of “look at me” stuff like he wants to score points to nail some kayaking
chicks.

Has anyone heard of death by water being driven up the nose while
kayaking?

LOL. I have that book, I think. Is that the one where he tells the story of
the old guy who points out to him that the boat a few miles offshore is
being pushed sideways? Ach noooo....she's movin' sideways!

As for the "look at me" attitude, hell's bells, welcome to rec.boats.paddle.

Andy Baxter wrote:
In Derek Hutchinson's book, "The Complete Book of Sea Kayaking", on page
48 while talking about nose clips he states "...in some cases sudden death
has been caused by water being driven up the nose". Really? It makes
it sound like we cheat death by not wearing a nose plug.

snip

Has anyone heard of death by water being driven up the nose while
kayaking?

Nope, I did read about death by water in the lungs occurring hours
later, up to a day after the victim had gotten (even a little bit of)
water in their lungs. But sudden death?

Wilko

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d s enl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

KMAN wrote:
"Andy Baxter" wrote in message
...


In Derek Hutchinson's book, "The Complete Book of Sea Kayaking", on page
48 while talking about nose clips he states "...in some cases sudden death
has been caused by water being driven up the nose". Really? It makes it
sound like we cheat death by not wearing a nose plug.

IMO the book is less than impressive, some interesting material, but a lot
of "look at me" stuff like he wants to score points to nail some kayaking
chicks.

Has anyone heard of death by water being driven up the nose while
kayaking?


never heard of this. i suppose one could be driven to gag, vomit, then
aspirate acidic fluid to get severe enough bronchoconstriction to
suffocate. this is highly unlikely, though. the lungs are *very* good
about keeping water out. in many cases people drown, not by inhaling
water, but simply by being underwater with closed lungs.

sounds like a bit of urban (or not so urban) legend.

On Soulboater.com this (German language) article was postet recently:

http://www.soulboater.com/sbt2004/co...=7805&lang=deu

Below the translated text of the sea kayaker magazine, a doctor
explains what happens if you (almost) get water in your lungs. He talks
about "dry drowning" and a near drowning where in the case of the "dry
drowning" the "Laryngospasmus" in the victim causes to shut off all air
to the lungs. This usually also causes a lot of water to go to the
stomach.

The other situation of the "near drowning", the doctor mentions clear
and sal****er "near drownings".

Some other articles about the effects of near drowning:

http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic744.htm

http://scuba-doc.com/hypoth.htm
(a bit down the page is about "near drowning")

Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist...
:-)

Wilko

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

"Andy Baxter" wrote in message
...


In Derek Hutchinson’s book, “The Complete Book of Sea Kayaking”, on page
48 while talking about nose clips he states “…in some cases sudden death
has been caused by water being driven up the nose”. Really? It makes it
sound like we cheat death by not wearing a nose plug.

IMO the book is less than impressive, some interesting material, but a lot
of “look at me” stuff like he wants to score points to nail some kayaking
chicks.

Has anyone heard of death by water being driven up the nose while
kayaking?

Considering how often whitewater kayakers roll, and I've never heard of a
single case of a kayaker dying like that, I suspect it's total BS. Sure,
there's always a comfort factor--getting water up your nose is not fun, but
it won't kill you. (You might cough and sputter a bit after rolling, but
you'll be alive!)

-Paul

well, as i said, it could happen. and as a physician, i have seen cases
of aspiration pneumonia where people die pretty quickly. however, as a
paddler, i have had water up my nose constantly, and i have never even
come close to this. I suspect in order for this to be a reality, it
would be necessary for water to go much further than your nose. the
original claim that water up the nose can be fatal, IMHO, is wrong.

Well, you omitted the rest of the reference: " - - bear in mind that - -
in some cases sudden death has been caused by water being driven up the
nose. This has either slowed or arrested the heart through a reflex action
involving the vagus nerve". (I guess I could Google that if I wanted to.)

And he then cites the relevant source.

So it makes much more sense I guess to read it in it's entirety. Never heard
of it myself, but clearly there is a precedent.

As to his style, bear in mind that book was first published in 1976 (mine is
1997 - the ref is on p.36) and writign styles and attitudes have moved a bit
since the days of the "expert" who knows it all and to whom we ahve to
defer. Today, would it would be written in a more holistic and
self-exploratoty way, to encourage personal discovery?

Anyway, the man is something of a guru in his own way!




"Andy Baxter" wrote in message
...


In Derek Hutchinson’s book, “The Complete Book of Sea Kayaking”, on page
48 while talking about nose clips he states “…in some cases sudden death
has been caused by water being driven up the nose”. Really? It makes it
sound like we cheat death by not wearing a nose plug.

IMO the book is less than impressive, some interesting material, but a lot
of “look at me” stuff like he wants to score points to nail some kayaking
chicks.

Has anyone heard of death by water being driven up the nose while
kayaking?

You're the physician - see mine earlier - what IS the "vagus" nerve? And
does the source Huthison cites have any credibility? (Keatinge, W.R -
Survival in cold water - Blackwell Scientific Publishers (1969)


"Steven" wrote in message
ups.com...
well, as i said, it could happen. and as a physician, i have seen cases
of aspiration pneumonia where people die pretty quickly. however, as a
paddler, i have had water up my nose constantly, and i have never even
come close to this. I suspect in order for this to be a reality, it
would be necessary for water to go much further than your nose. the
original claim that water up the nose can be fatal, IMHO, is wrong.

i think he may be referring to the mammalian diving reflex, which is a
significant reduction of pulse and breathing rate when a person gets
immersed suddenly in cold water. you can try this yourself by filling
the sink with icewater, monitoring your pulse, then putting your face
in the water for 10 seconds or so. not sure i've heard of death
resulting from this, tho it could happen i suppose. more commonly,
this reflex can keep people alive for upwards of an hour underwater.
there have been cases of people recovered from icy ponds , who were
under water for extended periods of time, but had no residual bran
damage from it.

the vagus nerve is the 9th cranial nerve, that leaves the brain and
controls a whole range of activities. i'm not sure how getting water up
the nose per se would have much of an effect, but it is hard to imagine
getting water up the nose w/o getting one's face wet as well.

Rob wrote:
You're the physician - see mine earlier - what IS the "vagus" nerve? And
does the source Huthison cites have any credibility? (Keatinge, W.R -
Survival in cold water - Blackwell Scientific Publishers (1969)


"Steven" wrote in message
ups.com...
well, as i said, it could happen. and as a physician, i have seen cases
of aspiration pneumonia where people die pretty quickly. however, as a
paddler, i have had water up my nose constantly, and i have never even
come close to this. I suspect in order for this to be a reality, it
would be necessary for water to go much further than your nose. the
original claim that water up the nose can be fatal, IMHO, is wrong.