in article , Wilko at
wrote on 1/14/06 2:36 PM:

Michael Daly wrote:
On 13-Jan-2006, "KMAN" wrote:
Too bad you can't post under your real name.


Can't you just refrain from opening messages from me if you
don't want to see them

Zapping your messages in advance improves this newsgroup's signal
to noise ratio.

Mike

Isn't it sad that two individuals post more individual posts than the
rest combined to this newsgroup?

What's even more pathetic is that the trolls stoop ever lower trying to
get someone, anyone to respond to them, giving them the negative
attention that they crave for. If all else fails, launch personal
attacks, that might get someone to acknowledge their pitiful existence.

Personally, I look forward to having someone around who can help out
when anyone in our group has gotten in trouble. Especially when that
person has experience in giving first aid. I'll go paddle with you
anytime, Mike!

Agh! Just when Mike's egometer was already on overdrive, you go and blow the
transmission!

On 14-Jan-2006, KMAN wrote:

Agh! Just when Mike's egometer was already on overdrive, you go and blow the
transmission!

There you go with another gratuitous insult. Why don't you just grow up!

plonk

I was actually formally taught a "hand of god" rescue in an all day class
last August but it was described using a different name. I'd never seen
it
described such that that capsized paddler would reach up with a hand for a
rescue. The technique that I was shown was for a paddler, upside down and
still in the cockpit, but for one reason or another in unable to assist
with
their own rescue. It was simply called a 'trapped paddler rescue" and
rather than grab a hand, which could possible be attached to the arm of a
dislocated shoulder, grabbing the pfd was recommended.

This is the way that I learned the technique as well and have always taught
it that way as an instructor. You never know what injuries the upsidedown
person may have and always need to be cautious. As a whitewater paddler I
was taught that the name was the "hand of God" rescue. Whatever the name
though it really doesn't matter to me since it all refers to the same thing.

I wouldn't consider any technique which might be used to return to an
upright position superflous. While the term "bomb proof roll" is also
thrown around a lot I don't think it's every a good idea to put all your
eggs in one basket when it comes to your own safety. There are just too
many possible scenarios that might result in failing to roll for even the
most accomplished of paddlers.

I agree with you again. When I referred to my "almost drowning" incident in
an earlier post, I had a paddle and a hand roll on both sides for years that
had never failed me, and well, in that particular case, sh-t happened and
nothing worked. That's why to this day when I'm getting ready to run a new
rapid that makes my stomach turn I think of all the scenarios including
where to swim to if things don't go the way I had planned.

Courtney

"Courtney" wrote in message
nk.net...
I was actually formally taught a "hand of god" rescue in an all day class
last August but it was described using a different name. I'd never seen
it
described such that that capsized paddler would reach up with a hand for
a
rescue. The technique that I was shown was for a paddler, upside down
and
still in the cockpit, but for one reason or another in unable to assist
with
their own rescue. It was simply called a 'trapped paddler rescue" and
rather than grab a hand, which could possible be attached to the arm of a
dislocated shoulder, grabbing the pfd was recommended.

This is the way that I learned the technique as well and have always
taught
it that way as an instructor. You never know what injuries the upsidedown
person may have and always need to be cautious.

Just to throw my 2-sense in, remember that someone suffering an obstructed
airway (like by hanging upside down in their kayak) has a higher level of
need than someone with a dislocated shoulder, or even a broken neck.
Although you don't *want* to complicate things by grabbing their hand and
exasorbating their other injuries, if they've been out of air for a few
minutes and time is getting urgent, grabbing their arm, hair, PFD or
moustache to get them right side up is the preferred course. Worry about the
next life-threatening thing once you've relieved the first.

--riverman

in article , Michael Daly at
wrote on 1/14/06 4:10 PM:


On 14-Jan-2006, KMAN wrote:

Agh! Just when Mike's egometer was already on overdrive, you go and blow the
transmission!

There you go with another gratuitous insult. Why don't you just grow up!

plonk

Nice demonstration of maturity!

On 14-Jan-2006, John Fereira wrote:

but with a name
like Daly I doubt that he's spent much time in an igloo.

I have spent nights in a quinzee. Is that close enough? :-)

Mike

With all the talk about "Hand of God" rescues here, I thought I'd post
a copy of this message was posted on the QAJAQ-USA Message board on
Friday, 17 June 2005, at 12:30 p.m. by Don Beale. It discusses the
"Hand of God" technique as demonstrated by Pavia Lumbolt at the 2005
SSTIKS event.

"Pavia showed us a MUCH better way to do a Hand of God rescue. Always
before, wed grap the PFD of the victim, push them down on the back
deck, and haul them up with one hand on the PFD and one hand on the
coaming.

Pavia has us go behind them, get ahold of the boat, and rotate it
partway up so the victim is at the surface of the water. Lets say they
are on your right-hand side... ANd youre bow-to-stern, so thier stern
is on your right and they are behind you... Now grab the boats sheer
(the one further from you)with your left hand, and push down on the
closer side of the hull with your right - rotating them up so thier
floating at the surface. Now, holding the boat with your left hand,
reach clear down on the outside with your right hand and grab thier
boat by the opposite sheer. Now your grip on thier boat is secure -
your left hand on the up sheer side, and your right hand reaching
across and ahold of thier down sheer side.

Now roll underneath thier boat. Use your leverage as you roll down to
pull their boat upright over the top of you. And then use thier boat to
roll yourself back up.

Try it - its a lot easier to do than it is to describe - and its a LOT
more powerful. Youre essentially pulling thier boat upright over the
top of you, instead of pulling them up and pushing thier boat
underneath. When we did it, Pavia had us remain rigid and hold the
coaming - making it almost impossible to do it the old way - and its so
easy its amazing. He then has us flailing around, and fighting the
rescue. Bottom line is that you pull up the victim, no matter what they
are doing.

Another advantage is that you can do this from behind the victim, where
they cant get ahold of you. No risk of a half-concious panicky person
pulling your glasses off, or holding you under... "

That's it - For more info on this topic, check out
http://www.qajaqusa.org/cgi-bin/Gree...orum_config.pl , go
to bottom of screen and enter "Hand of God" into SEARCH criteria.

Best,
Ed

"John Fereira" wrote in message
.. .
"riverman" wrote in :


"Courtney" wrote in message
nk.net...
I was actually formally taught a "hand of god" rescue in an all day
class last August but it was described using a different name. I'd
never seen it described such that that capsized paddler would reach
up with a hand for a rescue. The technique that I was shown was for
a paddler, upside down and still in the cockpit, but for one reason
or another in unable to assist with their own rescue. It was simply
called a 'trapped paddler rescue" and rather than grab a hand, which
could possible be attached to the arm of a dislocated shoulder,
grabbing the pfd was recommended.

This is the way that I learned the technique as well and have always
taught it that way as an instructor. You never know what injuries the
upsidedown person may have and always need to be cautious.

Just to throw my 2-sense in, remember that someone suffering an
obstructed airway (like by hanging upside down in their kayak) has a
higher level of need than someone with a dislocated shoulder, or even a
broken neck. Although you don't *want* to complicate things by grabbing
their hand and exasorbating their other injuries, if they've been out
of air for a few minutes and time is getting urgent, grabbing their
arm, hair, PFD or moustache to get them right side up is the preferred
course. Worry about the next life-threatening thing once you've
relieved the first.

You certainly make a good point. I was taught the "hand of god" rescue
such
that it was performed in two stages. The first order of business is to get
the victims face out of the water, which could be done by reaching around
and grabbing the victims pfd or even the cockpit rim while pushing down on
the edge of boat closest to you. Assuming the victim *can* breath and
respond at that point you can then grab whatever is necessary to bring the
victim completely upright.

Good points as well. I used this method once when a friend of mine got her
leg twisted up in the boat and couldn't get out. We were still going
through a rapid and the hardest part was still to come. It's nice to know
that there's something pretty easy like that to use when a situation goes
wrong.

Courtney

Interesting - the search isn't producing any results - could you just psot
the link to the specific thread pleae?


"Qajaq" wrote in message
oups.com...
With all the talk about "Hand of God" rescues here, I thought I'd post
a copy of this message was posted on the QAJAQ-USA Message board on
Friday, 17 June 2005, at 12:30 p.m. by Don Beale. It discusses the
"Hand of God" technique as demonstrated by Pavia Lumbolt at the 2005
SSTIKS event.

"Pavia showed us a MUCH better way to do a Hand of God rescue. Always
before, wed grap the PFD of the victim, push them down on the back
deck, and haul them up with one hand on the PFD and one hand on the
coaming.

Pavia has us go behind them, get ahold of the boat, and rotate it
partway up so the victim is at the surface of the water. Lets say they
are on your right-hand side... ANd youre bow-to-stern, so thier stern
is on your right and they are behind you... Now grab the boats sheer
(the one further from you)with your left hand, and push down on the
closer side of the hull with your right - rotating them up so thier
floating at the surface. Now, holding the boat with your left hand,
reach clear down on the outside with your right hand and grab thier
boat by the opposite sheer. Now your grip on thier boat is secure -
your left hand on the up sheer side, and your right hand reaching
across and ahold of thier down sheer side.

Now roll underneath thier boat. Use your leverage as you roll down to
pull their boat upright over the top of you. And then use thier boat to
roll yourself back up.

Try it - its a lot easier to do than it is to describe - and its a LOT
more powerful. Youre essentially pulling thier boat upright over the
top of you, instead of pulling them up and pushing thier boat
underneath. When we did it, Pavia had us remain rigid and hold the
coaming - making it almost impossible to do it the old way - and its so
easy its amazing. He then has us flailing around, and fighting the
rescue. Bottom line is that you pull up the victim, no matter what they
are doing.

Another advantage is that you can do this from behind the victim, where
they cant get ahold of you. No risk of a half-concious panicky person
pulling your glasses off, or holding you under... "

That's it - For more info on this topic, check out
http://www.qajaqusa.org/cgi-bin/Gree...orum_config.pl , go
to bottom of screen and enter "Hand of God" into SEARCH criteria.

Best,
Ed

Rob -
Can't really seem to generate a link that brings up the thread,
sorry...
But if you log onto the www.qajaqusa.org website,
click on "Greenland Forums",
click on "Greenland Kayaking Forums:"
scroll down to bottom of MESSSAGE INDEX and click on SEARCH,
change "Posted within the last " selection to "Year",
click on radio button for "Messages Posted By:", " Steve Ulrich"
activate Search then scroll down to topic "Hand of God" dated Friday,
17 June 2005, at 9:54 a.m., click on it,
then click on "view thread"
a thread should come up with 24 entries.
sorry couldn't give you a better procedure.
Best,
Ed