"Grip" wrote in message
...
Remember the magazine RIVER a few years back? I had two word for word boat
reviews published in it. They contacted me. One was WW, one was touring I
think(I started with touring boats)

Did you get paid, or credited?

--riverman

I was asked to go out with some people from a popular kayak magazine to
paddle and give my review of several boats a few years ago and never got
credited or paid. I didn't bother me though because I didn't ask to be and
I was just happy to be out on the water trying out some new boats and having
fun.

Courtney


"Grip" wrote in message
...
Remember the magazine RIVER a few years back? I had two word for word boat
reviews published in it. They contacted me. One was WW, one was touring I
think(I started with touring boats)

"Courtney" wrote in message
ink.net...
I was asked to go out with some people from a popular kayak magazine to
paddle and give my review of several boats a few years ago and never got
credited or paid. I didn't bother me though because I didn't ask to be
and
I was just happy to be out on the water trying out some new boats and
having
fun.

Courtney

If they didn't even mention your name, that's lousy (and unethical)
journalism.

"KMAN" wrote in message
. ..

"Courtney" wrote in message
ink.net...
I was asked to go out with some people from a popular kayak magazine to
paddle and give my review of several boats a few years ago and never got
credited or paid. I didn't bother me though because I didn't ask to be
and
I was just happy to be out on the water trying out some new boats and
having
fun.

Courtney

If they didn't even mention your name, that's lousy (and unethical)
journalism.

Maybe...it depends on how they used her review. If it was just an informal
assessment, added to a lot of other people's assessments ("some paddlers say
that the sharp chine carves turns too easily..."), then its not really
unethical, imho, as it would be too hard to footnote exactly who said what.
OTOH, if they printed even a sentence of Courtney's verbatum, then they
really should have credited her in the paragraph, or in a footnote as a
participant at least.

Nonetheless, how did they contact you, Courtney? Send you an email saying
"we've seen your posts on rbp and were wondering if you wanted to fieldtest
some new products for us and give us your opinion?" I think the closest I
ever got to being approached was after I posted a TR from a visit to
Mauritius, a woman who runs a B&B in Oregon emailed me and offered me a free
multi-day stay if I wrote an article about their facility and posted it on
GetLostMagazine.com. But I was in Congo at the time, so it was impractical.

--riverman

Credited yes, paid....heck like the rolling stone mag song....I bought 5
copies for my mother
"riverman" wrote in message ...

"Grip" wrote in message
...
Remember the magazine RIVER a few years back? I had two word for word
boat
reviews published in it. They contacted me. One was WW, one was touring
I
think(I started with touring boats)

Did you get paid, or credited?

--riverman

"riverman" wrote in message ...

"KMAN" wrote in message
. ..

"Courtney" wrote in message
ink.net...
I was asked to go out with some people from a popular kayak magazine to
paddle and give my review of several boats a few years ago and never got
credited or paid. I didn't bother me though because I didn't ask to be
and
I was just happy to be out on the water trying out some new boats and
having
fun.

Courtney

If they didn't even mention your name, that's lousy (and unethical)
journalism.

Maybe...it depends on how they used her review. If it was just an informal
assessment, added to a lot of other people's assessments ("some paddlers
say that the sharp chine carves turns too easily..."), then its not really
unethical, imho, as it would be too hard to footnote exactly who said
what. OTOH, if they printed even a sentence of Courtney's verbatum, then
they really should have credited her in the paragraph, or in a footnote as
a participant at least.

Yes, all true. It sounded like she was specifically invited and invested a
fair bit of time. I'd use a phrase like "some paddlers say" if I got the
information from scanning newsgroups or something, not if I invited someone
to do a review and spent time with them.

"Melissa" wrote in message
...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Hi riverman,

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 19:41:15 +0800, you wrote:

Oh yeah? Its been a desire of mine for many years to get printed in
a trade magazine; even better yet to get paid something for it.
You'd think after all these years of river stories, someone would
have contacted me...

HEY, MAGAZINE EDITORS!! I'M HERE, READY AND WILLING!

Be careful what you wish for! :-)

A few years ago, I was contacted by a supposedly
"outdoor/conservationist" magazine (based in NYC) to write a feature
article about my experiences paddling with the resident whales of my
local waters. The publisher sent me several copies of the magazine
(very glossy, and filled with advertising for the "upscale
conspicuous consumer"; with many of these items being quite
"environmentally unfriendly" in my view, even though their "target
consumer" was the "outdoor enthusiast").

Mags like Canadian Geographic struggle with this contradiction all the time.
A lot of their subscriber based would be people who are concerned about the
environment but who are also in middle and upper income territory, perfect
for shiny ads for big pollution spouting SUVs and the like. You need to make
money to run the magazine, yet at the same time you don't want to offend the
readership. A tricky business.

It was more of an informal assessment like Riverman mentioned. We were all
friends and all working in the industry. I believe they quoted some
sponsored paddlers reviews and then said "what others had to say" about the
boats as well.

Courtney

"KMAN" wrote in message
. ..

"riverman" wrote in message
...

"KMAN" wrote in message
. ..

"Courtney" wrote in message
ink.net...
I was asked to go out with some people from a popular kayak magazine to
paddle and give my review of several boats a few years ago and never
got
credited or paid. I didn't bother me though because I didn't ask to
be
and
I was just happy to be out on the water trying out some new boats and
having
fun.

Courtney

If they didn't even mention your name, that's lousy (and unethical)
journalism.

Maybe...it depends on how they used her review. If it was just an
informal
assessment, added to a lot of other people's assessments ("some paddlers
say that the sharp chine carves turns too easily..."), then its not
really
unethical, imho, as it would be too hard to footnote exactly who said
what. OTOH, if they printed even a sentence of Courtney's verbatum, then
they really should have credited her in the paragraph, or in a footnote
as
a participant at least.

Yes, all true. It sounded like she was specifically invited and invested a
fair bit of time. I'd use a phrase like "some paddlers say" if I got the
information from scanning newsgroups or something, not if I invited
someone
to do a review and spent time with them.

in article et, Courtney at
wrote on 1/18/06 6:10 PM:

It was more of an informal assessment like Riverman mentioned. We were all
friends and all working in the industry. I believe they quoted some
sponsored paddlers reviews and then said "what others had to say" about the
boats as well.

Courtney

Ah, I see. Fair enough.



"KMAN" wrote in message
. ..

"riverman" wrote in message
...

"KMAN" wrote in message
. ..

"Courtney" wrote in message
ink.net...
I was asked to go out with some people from a popular kayak magazine to
paddle and give my review of several boats a few years ago and never
got
credited or paid. I didn't bother me though because I didn't ask to
be
and
I was just happy to be out on the water trying out some new boats and
having
fun.

Courtney

If they didn't even mention your name, that's lousy (and unethical)
journalism.

Maybe...it depends on how they used her review. If it was just an
informal
assessment, added to a lot of other people's assessments ("some paddlers
say that the sharp chine carves turns too easily..."), then its not
really
unethical, imho, as it would be too hard to footnote exactly who said
what. OTOH, if they printed even a sentence of Courtney's verbatum, then
they really should have credited her in the paragraph, or in a footnote
as
a participant at least.

Yes, all true. It sounded like she was specifically invited and invested a
fair bit of time. I'd use a phrase like "some paddlers say" if I got the
information from scanning newsgroups or something, not if I invited
someone
to do a review and spent time with them.

Copyright laws force me to mention that KMAN said:
"Mags like Canadian Geographic struggle with this contradiction all the
time.
A lot of their subscriber based would be people who are concerned about
the
environment but who are also in middle and upper income territory,
perfect
for shiny ads for big pollution spouting SUVs and the like. You need to
make
money to run the magazine, yet at the same time you don't want to
offend the
readership. A tricky business."

Its not just mags that struggle with this. When I was helping start the
WW Rafting industry in Maine back in the early 80s, the region where we
were boating was quite pristine, with no shops or paved roads, only
rustic campsites and a few fishermen. A part of our business was to
show the clientele this aspect of the Maine woods. But the very act of
creating a booming industry means that the roads were getting paved,
the rustic campgrounds were getting developed, new stores and hotels
sprung up, and the pristine aspect was being destroyed. The fact that
the vast majority of the clients were there specifically because they
LIKED pristine areas was bittersweet consolation for the damage they
were doing by just being there.

I don't know that there was an easy solution to this; after a bunch of
years debating with myself about my own role in the destruction of a
wonderful part of Maine, I had to leave the industry. Those who
remained didn't mind; they accepted the fact that once the genii was
let out of the bottle, there was no turning back. But I'd rather not
have that hanging on me.

I think I would have done the same as you, Melissa; if writing the
article about a place would have irevocably changed that area for the
worse, I agree that not writing the article is the best personal course
of action. Even if the article was going to be inevitably written, and
someone was going to make good money off of it.

--riverman