Steven Shelikoff wrote in message ...
JAXAshby wrote:
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet, it is physically impossible to know where you are on
the planet using just a compass and a speed indicator. that some people
believe otherwise just goes to show you that some people are utterly ignorant.
the rocks don't care what you believe. not in the slightest.

It's also impossible to know where you are on the planet using GPS, or
any other navigation system. You said it yourself, one of the rare
times you said something correct. It's a physical impossibility to be
completely accurate. There's error in everything. The only difference
is in how much error there is, how well the amount of error can be
estimated and whether it's more than required for a specific application.

Steve


Oh, crap! I can't wait to see what Jax has to say about your above
statements. no doubt, he'll come up with something, whether it
actually has anything to do with the subject, we'll see.

otnmbrd wrote:


JAXAshby wrote:
guys, you can argue idiocy all you want, but it does not change the fact that
"dead" as used the context of navigation is incorrect usage as to what the word
"dead" means.



Tell ya what you do ..... start writing letters to all those writers and
publishers of books, on the subject of navigation; all the marina
operators; port authorities; sailors, etc., and tell them JAXAshby says
the are to henceforth use only the term "ded reckoning" when discussing
"DR" and that it only applies to speed/time/heading.
Come back in a couple years and let us know how your campaign is going .....

otn


There you go. And since JaxAss has no credentials whatsoever in any
field, I'm sure the publishers will cite him in their upcoming editions.

grouch, because the word is misused and because the "common" usage of the word
implies high end precision, a whole generation of sailors believe it is
perfectly safe to wonder around among the rocks in fog, with just a compass and
speed indicator onboard. In fact, the USPS teaches that very nav system as
indeed a precision nav system. Nevermind, that just 25 years ago boats stew
ped enough to be caught near the rock in fog often ended up on the rocks before
the fog lifted.

you can call it Santa Claus, if you wish, but it ain't.

but it does not change the fact that
"dead" as used the context of navigation is incorrect usage as to what the
word
"dead" means.

With all that hogwash, you must own some very clean pigs. The meaning of any
word is what it is commonly understood to communicate. Nearly all naigators
use
the term "dead reckoning" and understand what it means. Parsing the word
"dead"
is a useful exercise only for NG trolls and those of us stupid enough to
respond to them.

we have a start, don't we?

actually, many, many, many writers have said the very same thing I said. It
is perhaps less of an issue today because gps's can be had for under a hundred
bucks, new.

guys, you can argue idiocy all you want, but it does not change the fact
that
"dead" as used the context of navigation is incorrect usage as to what the
word
"dead" means.



Tell ya what you do ..... start writing letters to all those writers and
publishers of books, on the subject of navigation; all the marina
operators; port authorities; sailors, etc., and tell them JAXAshby says
the are to henceforth use only the term "ded reckoning" when discussing
"DR" and that it only applies to speed/time/heading.
Come back in a couple years and let us know how your campaign is going .....

otn

hoary, this idea/this discussion is not new with me. It was once part and
parcel of all valid sailing courses.

otnmbrd wrote:


JAXAshby wrote:
guys, you can argue idiocy all you want, but it does not change the fact
that
"dead" as used the context of navigation is incorrect usage as to what the
word
"dead" means.



Tell ya what you do ..... start writing letters to all those writers and
publishers of books, on the subject of navigation; all the marina
operators; port authorities; sailors, etc., and tell them JAXAshby says
the are to henceforth use only the term "ded reckoning" when discussing
"DR" and that it only applies to speed/time/heading.
Come back in a couple years and let us know how your campaign is going
.....

otn


There you go. And since JaxAss has no credentials whatsoever in any
field, I'm sure the publishers will cite him in their upcoming editions.

base kisser, I have nothing say about "steve" statement. It was, and was
intended to be, specious.


Steven Shelikoff wrote in message
...
JAXAshby wrote:
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet, it is physically impossible to know where you
are on
the planet using just a compass and a speed indicator. that some people
believe otherwise just goes to show you that some people are utterly
ignorant.
the rocks don't care what you believe. not in the slightest.

It's also impossible to know where you are on the planet using GPS, or
any other navigation system. You said it yourself, one of the rare
times you said something correct. It's a physical impossibility to be
completely accurate. There's error in everything. The only difference
is in how much error there is, how well the amount of error can be
estimated and whether it's more than required for a specific application.

Steve


Oh, crap! I can't wait to see what Jax has to say about your above
statements. no doubt, he'll come up with something, whether it
actually has anything to do with the subject, we'll see.

gene, you still don't understand what a reference point is. if I am 270 to The
Statue of Liberty and and 000 to the Fireboat House in Battery Park, I
definitely know I am.

On the other hand, if I am 270 from some unknown statue and 000 to some unknown
house, then I don't know where I am.

reference points are known, that is why they are reference points. if you
don't know where they are then they are not reference points, but rather merely
features on the seascape.

big difference. At least when trying to navigate around rocks in a fog.

gene, a reference point is a known quantity. that is the very definition of
the word "reference". if you don't know where it is it isn't a reference
point. and if you have reference points you are not DRing.


Jax, you are such a numbskull..... of course a reference point is a
known quantity. I am 280 degrees and 4 nautical miles from Rock "A,"
123 degrees from Rock "B," and 42 degrees from Rock "C."

I have three known quantities and still don't have enough information
to tell where in the state, hemisphere, or globe that I am.

The point that your stupid statement, " If you can see outside
reference points, then you KNOW where you are..." is patently false by
your later admission. The fact that I can "see outside" and locate
points "A," :B," and "C" says NOTHING about where I am in a meaningful
context.

You don't seem to understand that a vessel, unsure of its location, is
seeking reference points in accordance with its OWN location. If it
knew where the hell it was,it wouldn't need to be relying solely on
triangulating a fix. The conundrum, here, is correctly relating the
observed points with *actual* points... an error that has cost
countless lives in land, sea, and air navigation.... probably by
people that had nothing other than a laboratory understanding of the
earth... such as you....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

Subject: Huh? Diesel engines don't last 800 hours before major repairs??
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 07/20/2004 19:22 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

grouch, because the word is misused and because the "common" usage of the
word
implies high end precision,

Are you saying "Bowditch" is misusing a term of navigation?
The only person who thinks it implies high end precision, is you. To imply high
end precision the term would have to be Dead-on Reckoning.

a whole generation of sailors believe it is
perfectly safe to wonder around among the rocks in fog, with just a compass
and
speed indicator onboard. In fact, the USPS teaches that very nav system as
indeed a precision nav system. Nevermind, that just 25 years ago boats stew
ped enough to be caught near the rock in fog often ended up on the rocks
before
the fog lifted.

you can call it Santa Claus, if you wish, but it ain't.

All your post do is confirm that you have done little if any navigation.

Shen

What does having GPS have to do with how the terms "dead reckoning",
"deduced reckoning", and "ded reckoning" are applied.
Sorry jax, but what you have to say about any phase of navigation
carries little if any weight since it's so obvious you have no practical
experience to back up your claims.

otn

JAXAshby wrote:
we have a start, don't we?

actually, many, many, many writers have said the very same thing I said. It
is perhaps less of an issue today because gps's can be had for under a hundred
bucks, new.


guys, you can argue idiocy all you want, but it does not change the fact

that

"dead" as used the context of navigation is incorrect usage as to what the

word

"dead" means.



Tell ya what you do ..... start writing letters to all those writers and
publishers of books, on the subject of navigation; all the marina
operators; port authorities; sailors, etc., and tell them JAXAshby says
the are to henceforth use only the term "ded reckoning" when discussing
"DR" and that it only applies to speed/time/heading.
Come back in a couple years and let us know how your campaign is going .....

otn

over the knee, it has to do with the the fact that navigating with DR as your
primary nav system is not necessary at all, given the low price of gps's today.
In addition, there is zero point zero need to nav at all in fog with rocks
nearby using DR.

over the knee, you need to get out on the water some time see what this stuff
is all about.

What does having GPS have to do with how the terms "dead reckoning",
"deduced reckoning", and "ded reckoning" are applied.
Sorry jax, but what you have to say about any phase of navigation
carries little if any weight since it's so obvious you have no practical
experience to back up your claims.

otn

JAXAshby wrote:
we have a start, don't we?

actually, many, many, many writers have said the very same thing I said.
It
is perhaps less of an issue today because gps's can be had for under a
hundred
bucks, new.


guys, you can argue idiocy all you want, but it does not change the fact

that

"dead" as used the context of navigation is incorrect usage as to what the

word

"dead" means.



Tell ya what you do ..... start writing letters to all those writers and
publishers of books, on the subject of navigation; all the marina
operators; port authorities; sailors, etc., and tell them JAXAshby says
the are to henceforth use only the term "ded reckoning" when discussing
"DR" and that it only applies to speed/time/heading.
Come back in a couple years and let us know how your campaign is going
.....

otn