John even though I disagree with the premise of your cut 'n paste, I do have to
applaud it's accuracy in one or two areas.

If a handful of liberals set out to identify the
distinguishing characteristics of contemporary conservatism, it wouldn't be
surprising that they would identify abstract factors such as:



* Fear and aggression
* Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity
* Uncertainty avoidance
* Need for cognitive closure
* Terror management


According to the author of this cut'n paste, the best analysis of liberalism
that can be reached by the finest conservative minds is:


* They're f'ing morons

Just about forced to agree that such a comparison is an accurate reflection of
abstract thinking demonstrated by liberals vs. consevatives.

Furthermore, the author of the cut n' paste recommends that conservatives go
out and
"whump" liberals with sticks. Also an accurate reflection of the difference
between problem solving approaches and intellectual debating abilities.

Thanks for another deadly accurate insight into the conservative mind set.
Anybody eavesdropping on your self congratulatory fantasy radio stations
already knew that most conservatives think this way, so it is good to see that
you take special pride in the fact that it is indeed so.

On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 13:33:30 +0000, JohnH wrote:


Well, I think my study was pretty thorough on what makes a liberal,...

Huh?

You never made it past your own borders. You don't even have "liberals"
and 'conservatives" in the US - you have "democrats" and "republicans".
For liberals and conservatives, come to Canada. (and in England they're
called "tories" and "whigs")

Now crawl back under your rock and count the insects there, assuming
that's All the Insects in All the World.

Lloyd

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 13:33:30 +0000, JohnH wrote:


Well, I think my study was pretty thorough on what makes a liberal,...

Huh?

You never made it past your own borders. You don't even have "liberals"
and 'conservatives" in the US - you have "democrats" and "republicans".
For liberals and conservatives, come to Canada. (and in England they're
called "tories" and "whigs")

Now crawl back under your rock and count the insects there, assuming
that's All the Insects in All the World.

Lloyd


It's worse than that. Most of the so-called conservatives who post here
are poorly educated twits, totally lacking in the intellectual
underpinnings and morality of the political conservatives that predated
Ronald Reagan's election as POTUS. Modern "conservatism" is based upon
greed, and is the embodiment of the "I've got mine, so screw you"
philosophy.



--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.


Man, you are one wacked out person to make a statement like that.

Your assertion flies in the face of the fact that the richest member in Congress are
Democrats. Come to think of it, so is Bill Gates as are most of the tinsel town
millionaires. ;-)

Your assertion flies in the face of the fact that the richest member in
Congress are
Democrats. Come to think of it, so is Bill Gates as are most of the tinsel
town
millionaires. ;-)

Maybe there are so many rich D's in congress because the D's have to
self-finance the early stages of their political careers.

Big biz doesn't like to make huge contributions to Democrats. Dumb D's might go
off and vote on some issue based on priniciple! Can't have that now, can we?

I always find it amusing that huge firms like Enron donate at least "something"
to both sides. They may give the R's a few million and the D's maybe 10-percent
of that......but they give the D's enough to get noticed and hopefully call in
some "favors" in case the D candidate upsets the R.

Jim wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 13:33:30 +0000, JohnH wrote:


Well, I think my study was pretty thorough on what makes a liberal,...

Huh?

You never made it past your own borders. You don't even have "liberals"
and 'conservatives" in the US - you have "democrats" and "republicans".
For liberals and conservatives, come to Canada. (and in England they're
called "tories" and "whigs")

Now crawl back under your rock and count the insects there, assuming
that's All the Insects in All the World.

Lloyd


It's worse than that. Most of the so-called conservatives who post here
are poorly educated twits, totally lacking in the intellectual
underpinnings and morality of the political conservatives that predated
Ronald Reagan's election as POTUS. Modern "conservatism" is based upon
greed, and is the embodiment of the "I've got mine, so screw you"
philosophy.



--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.


Man, you are one wacked out person to make a statement like that.

Your assertion flies in the face of the fact that the richest member in Congress are
Democrats. Come to think of it, so is Bill Gates as are most of the tinsel town
millionaires. ;-)



You're kinda like your superhero, Bush. Simple-minded and incapable of
abstract thinking, and a big fan of sound bites.

Feh.

--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

"Jim" wrote in message
et...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 13:33:30 +0000, JohnH wrote:


Well, I think my study was pretty thorough on what makes a
liberal,...

Huh?

You never made it past your own borders. You don't even have
"liberals"
and 'conservatives" in the US - you have "democrats" and
"republicans".
For liberals and conservatives, come to Canada. (and in England
they're
called "tories" and "whigs")

Now crawl back under your rock and count the insects there, assuming
that's All the Insects in All the World.

Lloyd


It's worse than that. Most of the so-called conservatives who post here
are poorly educated twits, totally lacking in the intellectual
underpinnings and morality of the political conservatives that predated
Ronald Reagan's election as POTUS. Modern "conservatism" is based upon
greed, and is the embodiment of the "I've got mine, so screw you"
philosophy.



--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.


Man, you are one wacked out person to make a statement like that.

Your assertion flies in the face of the fact that the richest member in
Congress are
Democrats. Come to think of it, so is Bill Gates as are most of the
tinsel town
millionaires. ;-)


But you have to understand that the foundation for modern liberalism in the
US today is a belief that liberals believe they are morally and
intellectually superior to all others...they have their own set of rules and
are better equipped to make the decisions for the rest of us unwashed
conservative heathens. They have to keep the poor poor because if they were
self sufficient they would vote Repub...

wrote:


But you have to understand that the foundation for modern liberalism in the
US today is a belief that liberals believe they are morally and
intellectually superior to all others...

Actually, you don't have to "understand" this at all, since it's malarkey. This
is just a smear by the right wing whackos... most of whom realize their
intellectual & moral inferiority (to everyone, not just liberals) and jump to
this accusation in order to try and turn the tables.

Of course, if you're dumb enough to believe it, you're dumb enough to be a
Bushie neoconservative.... but do you ever wonder to yourself, quietly, why they
don't appear to be interested in "conserving" anything?

DSK

wrote:

You talk of right wing whackos as if the left has
none.

Not at all

I am embarrassed by the right wing wackos and would certainly prefer
if they would disappear quietly. The difference though, is that the left is
defined by the wackos.

Again, not at all.

This is a method of discrediting anything you disagree with as being propagated
by "whackos" before even starting. And you want to claim a halo for being of so
reasonable and logical..... NOT

If you were capable of having a conversation on the
basis of fact, not namecalling, I would gladly engage you.

I guess you have not followed this NG very long. I'd much prefer to talk boats,
and the few times I get into political discussions it's either serious (as in
the economics thread above) or for humor, as when clubbing NOBBY and some of the
other right-wing whackos here (who all try to position themselves as
"conservatives"). The only one with a lick of sense seems to be JohnH, and he
gets dragged over the edge all too often.



Let's start with the left's idea that it's the government's responsibility
to find you a job...just yesterday one of the dwarves spole to the AFL-CIO
and question after question was "What are you going to do to find me this or
get me that?" Get up off your ass and do it yourself!

That would appear to be more than just "the left." Anybody who is worried about
his financial future is not automatically a leftist, so sorry.

As for getting up and doing yourself, that's an admirable concept IMHO.


...I'm sure you'll dismiss me as an ignorant right
wing wacko...so be it...

Actually, you seem to be somewhat well informed, but badly biased and
quiveringly eager to dismiss anything you disagree with as whacko-ism. So yes, I
dismiss you. Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
...
wrote:

You talk of right wing whackos as if the left has
none.

Not at all

I am embarrassed by the right wing wackos and would certainly prefer
if they would disappear quietly. The difference though, is that the
left is
defined by the wackos.

Again, not at all.

This is a method of discrediting anything you disagree with as being
propagated
by "whackos" before even starting. And you want to claim a halo for being
of so
reasonable and logical..... NOT

I don't discredit it because I disagree with it, I discredit it because more
and more, the left is defined by special interest groups and extremists.
Take a look at the 2004 candidates - all but Lieberman are trying to
"out-left" each other, thinking that this is the only way to stand apart
from the crowd, and hoping to get the vote. In my opinion, any program that
takes my money and rewards someone for doing nothing, or misuses it, is
repulsive. Both parties are guilty of misuse of funds, but the majority
comes from social programs and entitlement programs designed by the Dems.
Look at CA, they extend these programs to people who are breaking the law
(illegal immigrants) while denying them to to citizens. If they had any
brains at all, they would allow the illegals to work there (doing the jobs
we're too proud to do anyway) and tax the income...maybe whittle down a
little of that $38 billion debt. Don't even get me started on the 9th
Circus Court...how about San Fransisco paying for sex change operations for
city workers...just a few examples of the policies coming from the left.
Maybe Michael Moore should run in '04, he'd beat 'em all...

I think it boils down to this...call someone a leftist, and they deny it and
act insulted...call be a right wing conservative and I proudly, openly
acknowledge it. I will openly discuss my goals and motives, while the left
claims impartiality and swears they are not biased.


If you were capable of having a conversation on the
basis of fact, not namecalling, I would gladly engage you.

I guess you have not followed this NG very long. I'd much prefer to talk
boats,
and the few times I get into political discussions it's either serious (as
in
the economics thread above) or for humor, as when clubbing NOBBY and some
of the
other right-wing whackos here (who all try to position themselves as
"conservatives"). The only one with a lick of sense seems to be JohnH, and
he
gets dragged over the edge all too often.

I've been following the NG since 1997, after purchasing my Grand Banks 46




Let's start with the left's idea that it's the government's
responsibility
to find you a job...just yesterday one of the dwarves spole to the
AFL-CIO
and question after question was "What are you going to do to find me
this or
get me that?" Get up off your ass and do it yourself!

That would appear to be more than just "the left." Anybody who is worried
about
his financial future is not automatically a leftist, so sorry.

No, but anyone who is a member of a union automatically IS a leftist.
Unions may have had a place in society at one time, but they are not
counterproductive. All they do is breed nepotism and interfere with free
competition. How is it that someone who moves boxes around on a dock can
make as much as I make with two degrees and state licensure as a Forensic
Engineer? Granted, cost of living has some factor, but explain to me how
the two jobs are of equal worth. Unskilled labor vs. technical and legal
analysis.

Where I live, you can't do random drug testing at the fire dept. because the
union won't allow it. Some stoned jackass is going to kill somebody one of
these days as a direct result of union policy. Why do unions cry every time
someone wants to put a job out for competitive bid? Because they can't
compete. They are a burden to society, and anyone who is in a union is
supporting the ideals, making them leftist by association.


As for getting up and doing yourself, that's an admirable concept IMHO.


It used to be the American way, before everyone decided that someone else is
to blame for all their problems


...I'm sure you'll dismiss me as an ignorant right
wing wacko...so be it...

Actually, you seem to be somewhat well informed, but badly biased and
quiveringly eager to dismiss anything you disagree with as whacko-ism. So
yes, I
dismiss you. Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.

DSK

I don't discredit it because I disagree with it, I discredit it because more
and more, the left is defined by special interest groups and extremists.

I understand the left has an exclusive franchise on extremists and special
interests. :-)

Besides, jealousy will get you nowhere.

Take a look at the 2004 candidates - all but Lieberman are trying to
"out-left" each other, thinking that this is the only way to stand apart
from the crowd, and hoping to get the vote. In my opinion, any program that
takes my money and rewards someone for doing nothing, or misuses it, is
repulsive.

??????? Care to be more specific? Exactly what programs have the 2004 hopefuls
proposed that would take your money and use it to reward people for "doing
nothing"?



Both parties are guilty of misuse of funds, but the majority
comes from social programs and entitlement programs designed by the Dems.

The POTUS has the ultimate authority on spending. It's called the veto. The
current POTUS has not vetoed one single spending bill during his enitre term.
Last I looked, he wasn't a Democrat.

Don't even get me started on the 9th
Circus Court...how about San Fransisco paying for sex change operations for
city workers...just a few examples of the policies coming from the left.

Does the City of San Francisco pay for sex change operations, or is it a
benefit included in the health insurance policies that City Workers (likely)
fund with deductions from their pay checks?

I think it boils down to this...call someone a leftist, and they deny it and
act insulted..

Horsefeathers. Just because you might intend it as an insult doesn't make it
one.
A lot of left leaners, self included, are proud of our principles and our
priorities.

call be a right wing conservative and I proudly, openly
acknowledge it. I will openly discuss my goals and motives, while the left
claims impartiality and swears they are not biased.

Not only are you an expert on what you stand for, you claim to be expert on
what everybody else stands for (based on label) too. Why would you seek
discussion if you are confident you have all the anwers?


No, but anyone who is a member of a union automatically IS a leftist.

No more than anybody who is a registered Republican automatically IS a fascist.
Our forefathers framed a government based upon separation of powers.
Will Congress Defend the Constitution of the United States?

http://larouchein2004.net/pages/othe...09dodreorg.htm