BCITORGB wrote:

Scott cites:
=============
The average Canadian family pays about 48 percent of its income in
taxes
each year,
=============

And, Scott, exactly how much tax does the average American pay?


My son and I are covered by a group insurance plan provided by my
employer, of which my employer pays 1/3. My wife is covered by her
employee insurance plan, which suddenly increased by 25%. She shopped
around for personal coverage, and inquired about coverage for the
entire family. Every insurance company she asked said they wouldn't
cover me (diabetes). She chose a BIG health insurance company for
herself, but they doubled her premiums when they found out she was
taking lipitor (statin for cholesterol). Our monthly health insurance
payments are now more than our monthly mortgage payment. For us,
health insurance is our single most expensive monthly expense, and
that doesn't count the co-pays and deductibles we must pay before
insurance kicks in. Oh, we live in the good-ol U.S. of A.





--
"This president has destroyed the country, the economy,
the relationship with the rest of the world.
He's a monster in the White House. He should resign."

- Hunter S. Thompson, speaking to an antiwar audience in 2003.

Frederick submits:
===================
Our monthly health insurance payments are now more than our monthly
mortgage payment. For us, health insurance is our single most expensive
monthly expense, and
that doesn't count the co-pays and deductibles we must pay before
insurance kicks in.
===================

I wonder if yours is a special case or if this is played out across the
USA. [rhetorical question]

What I find curious, and we've been down this road with Scott and rick
on a previous thread, is why it is seemingly appropriate for Scott to
cite a newspaper article, reporting on one particular
healthcare-related anecdote, but inappropriate for KMAN, Michael, or
BCITORGB to cite anecdotes about friends and relatives who have had
admirable care. More to the point, I know of not one person in my
circle of acquaintances who as had to wait for a necessary procedure.

But what I find interesting about Frederick's story is that KMAN,
Michael, and BCITORGB don't know what it is like being denied insurance
coverage because of diabetes or cholesterol issues. We have no idea
about the trauma or stress one might feel as the insurance companies
jack up the premiums or outright deny coverage.

Frederick states that "health insurance is our single most expensive
monthly expense, and that doesn't count the co-pays and deductibles". I
don't have the figures at hand; perhaps the taxes I pay in Canada, and
the portion thereof that goes to healthcare, are equal to or greater
than Frederick's monthly premiums (somehow I doubt it). However, I do
know that I'll always have that coverage.

And, as we ponder Frederick's premiums, we might wish to ask why the
USA spends more (significantly more) on healthcare per capita, but is
unable to match Canada and most western European nations on issues such
as infant mortality and life expectancy. Now there's a healthcare
scandal worth writing newspaper articles about.

frtzw906

This is not kayak related but here goes.
Last year I had a car crash. Totalled the car but the 3 kayaks on the
roof were unhurt.
Thank God . there was a Capella An NDK Exploere and a Sealution.

My neck faired not so well and I had a little concussion. I drove to
the hospital was looked at immediately and had a secondary assesment.
Since then I have had xrays and a couple of visits to my GP.
No cost to me.... ( taxes obviously )
The physio is an insurance thing but who cares, it needs done and If I
had the time it would be free. ( In Hospital take a ticket and wait. )
There was never an issue in whether or not I could pay.
I guess I am a commie. I truly believe the folks in public housing ( oh
,, We don't have a large homeless problem in my community. ) will get
the same care. That is what reflects the values of my community.

My father had some heart problems. He got help immediately.
He passed away but it was not from lack of expertise, availability or
hospital beds.
In the end I believe we will be judged by how we treat the poorest in
society, not the wealthiest. I am pleased with Canada.
Our military is not the most powerfull ( I would like to see it better
funded. ) But we have not fely a need to reach out and touch someone in
the way GW has.
Our medical system is fine.
All the best to you and yours.
Alex McGruer

A Usenet persona calling itself wrote:

This is not kayak related but here goes.
Last year I had a car crash. Totalled the car but the 3 kayaks on the
roof were unhurt.
Thank God . there was a Capella An NDK Exploere and a Sealution.

My neck faired not so well and I had a little concussion. I drove to
the hospital was looked at immediately and had a secondary assesment.
Since then I have had xrays and a couple of visits to my GP.
No cost to me.... ( taxes obviously )
The physio is an insurance thing but who cares, it needs done and If I
had the time it would be free. ( In Hospital take a ticket and wait. )
There was never an issue in whether or not I could pay.
I guess I am a commie.

Yup, because you expect everybody else to pay for your bad driving habits
and the expensive medical consequences. What if others don't want to pay for
it? Why should you have a right to expect them to do so?

I truly believe the folks in public housing ( oh
,, We don't have a large homeless problem in my community. ) will get
the same care. That is what reflects the values of my community.

Yeah, "take from everybody and give to me" values.

My father had some heart problems. He got help immediately.
He passed away but it was not from lack of expertise, availability or
hospital beds.

Most unfortunate. My father died from drinking himself to death, but he
never expected anyone else to pay for his mistakes and bad judgment.

In the end I believe we will be judged by how we treat the poorest in
society, not the wealthiest. I am pleased with Canada.

Fine by me, just don't try to export your socialism down here, we don't want
it.

Our military is not the most powerfull ( I would like to see it better
funded. ) But we have not fely a need to reach out and touch someone in
the way GW has.

And the reason you have a minimal military is because the US protects you,
just like it protected all of western Europe during the Cold War, which
freed you from having to spend more money on defense.

You're welcome...

Our medical system is fine.

Unless you're a teenager needing knee surgery...

All the best to you and yours.

Same to you. Enjoy your petard trip.


--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser

In the end I believe we will be judged by how we treat the poorest in
society, not the wealthiest. I am pleased with Canada.

Fine by me, just don't try to export your socialism down here, we don't
want
it.


You mean, YOU don't want it.

Our military is not the most powerfull ( I would like to see it better
funded. ) But we have not fely a need to reach out and touch someone in
the way GW has.

And the reason you have a minimal military is because the US protects you,
just like it protected all of western Europe during the Cold War, which
freed you from having to spend more money on defense.

You're welcome...


That would be your opinion, of course.

Our medical system is fine.

Unless you're a teenager needing knee surgery...


Strangely enough, the Canadians who live under the system so oppresively
described by you seem happier and healthier than most Americans.

A Usenet persona calling itself Franklin wrote:


In the end I believe we will be judged by how we treat the poorest in
society, not the wealthiest. I am pleased with Canada.

Fine by me, just don't try to export your socialism down here, we don't
want
it.


You mean, YOU don't want it.

Indeed, me and 200 million others.


Our military is not the most powerfull ( I would like to see it better
funded. ) But we have not fely a need to reach out and touch someone in
the way GW has.

And the reason you have a minimal military is because the US protects you,
just like it protected all of western Europe during the Cold War, which
freed you from having to spend more money on defense.

You're welcome...


That would be your opinion, of course.

Nope, a fact.


Our medical system is fine.

Unless you're a teenager needing knee surgery...


Strangely enough, the Canadians who live under the system so oppresively
described by you seem happier and healthier than most Americans.

And they will continue to do so right up until the entire system collapses
into chaos. Nothing surprising about people getting freebies not complaining
about it...till the gravy train derails.

-
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser

You mean, YOU don't want it.

Indeed, me and 200 million others.


When you can pull that number out of a filing cabinet instead of your ass,
I'll believe it.

And the reason you have a minimal military is because the US protects
you,
just like it protected all of western Europe during the Cold War, which
freed you from having to spend more money on defense.

You're welcome...


That would be your opinion, of course.

Nope, a fact.


Sorry, *wanting* something to be true doesn't *make* it true, it's still
just an opinion. But I'm sure it makes you feel better, and that's what
counts.


Strangely enough, the Canadians who live under the system so oppresively
described by you seem happier and healthier than most Americans.

And they will continue to do so right up until the entire system collapses
into chaos. Nothing surprising about people getting freebies not
complaining
about it...till the gravy train derails.


Kind of like the way the American system has derailed for so many of *it's*
citizens, I guess?

The US, of course, does have a socialized medical system, to some
extent.
Medicare, the health insurance provided to persons aged 65 and older,
is funded by the medicare taxes paid by individuals on their income
(and the payroll tax paid by their employers).

The US also has a socialized retirement pension system, aka Social
Security retirement benefit.

Stephen

A Usenet persona calling itself wrote:

The US, of course, does have a socialized medical system, to some
extent.
Medicare, the health insurance provided to persons aged 65 and older,
is funded by the medicare taxes paid by individuals on their income
(and the payroll tax paid by their employers).

And it's an abysmal failure, as any Medicare patient will tell you. You have
to be indigent before you can use it, and even then the coverage it provides
is limited and the bureaucracy Byzantine.


The US also has a socialized retirement pension system, aka Social
Security retirement benefit.

Also an abysmal failure, which is why Bush wants to let ME keep MY money and
put it away MYSELF for MY retirement.


--
Regards,
Scott Weiser

"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM

© 2005 Scott Weiser

"Scott Weiser" who appears to be a wrote in message
[...]
Fine by me, just don't try to export your socialism down here, we don't
want
it.

And just how do you imagine we'd try to export our "socialism"?
And who elected you as the spokesperson for all the "we"?

Parham "bemused, but bound to be none the wiser"