On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 12:27:53 -0500,
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:42:38 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 11/28/17 11:19 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 08:00:00 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 11/28/17 1:23 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 04:35:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

You also cleverly ignore the fact that a Chicago (or any out of state)
resident buying a handgun in Indiana is already a violation of federal
law. Both the buyer and the seller could do federal prison time.
Carrying that gun back across state lines is also a federal law
violation along with whatever Illinois and Chicago laws they are
breaking.
Do you really thing that "just one more law" is going to make any
difference at all?
I know you just want to do something so you can say you hope that will
make it better.
Why not just pray? The effect will be the same and it only seems that
way to a true believer.



Ahhh...the Fretwell solution to every serious problem...do nothing and
hope it works.


The FOAD solution. Do the same thing, add som more laws, which are make no
difference. Do the same thing and hope for a difference. Sad, you are
so biased and ignorant.

It is interesting that when Giuliani and Bratton actually came up with
something that did have a dramatic effect on violent crime, he ****s
on it and cries "racism".
What could be more racist than not doing all you can to stop the crime
that makes the streets of Chicago or Baltimore more dangerous for a
young black man than serving in Afghanistan, Iraq or Syria?



There are legit studies that show no real impact of "stop and frisk."
Easy enough to find them. Guiliani was and is a right-wing pig.

You can find "studies" that say the earth is flat and that the planet
is cooling. So what?
How many illegal guns did they get off the street? What happened to
the murder rate during the Rudy and Mike administrations?

BTW is Bloomberg a right wing pig too.



You have carefully researched data that proves what you are claiming was
not coincidental or just following along what was happening generally?


===

There has been a great deal of analysis of NYC's crime statistics. The
drop in overall crime, as well as murder rates, was attributable to a
broad range of policies and procedures, not just stop and frisk.

From Wikipedia:

---------------------------------------------------
Violent crime in New York City has been dropping since the
mid-1990s[1][2] and, as of 2015, is the lowest of any major city in
the United States.[3] In 2014, there were 328 homicides, the lowest
number since at least 1963.[2][4] Crime rates spiked in the 1980s and
early 1990s as the crack epidemic hit the city.[5][6] According to a
2015 ranking of 50 cities by The Economist, New York was the
10th-overall-safest major city in the world, as well as the
28th-safest in personal safety.[7]

During the 1990s the New York City Police Department (NYPD) adopted
CompStat, broken windows policing and other strategies in a major
effort to reduce crime. The city's dramatic drop in crime has been
attributed by criminologists to policing tactics, the end of the crack
epidemic, and some have speculated more controversial ideas such as
the legalization of abortion approximately 18 years previous[5][6] and
the decline of lead poisoning of children.[8]
--------------------------------------------------------

I happen to agree with your assessment of Guiliani being a right-wing
pig but it's important to also give credit where credit is due. His
strategies for reducing crime were right on the money as proven by
NYC's reduced rates, as other major cities with similar demographics
increased.

[1] Langan; Matthew R. Durose (December 3–5, 2003). "The Remarkable
Drop in Crime in New York City". 2003 International Conference on
Crime. Rome, Italy. Retrieved April 17, 2009.

[2]Chung, Jen (January 1, 2015). "NYC Murder Rate Drops To New
Historic Low In 2014". The Gothamist. Archived from the original on
January 18, 2015.

[3]
http://www.amny.com/opinion/homicide-rate-still-at-historic-lows-in-new-york-1.11210870

[4] Goodman, J. David; Baker, Al (December 31, 2014). "Murders in New
York Drop to a Record Low, but Officers Aren't Celebrating". The New
York Times.


The part of stop and frisk that Harry and the rest of the lefty elite
ignores is, to be able to stop and frisk people the cops have to get
out of their cars and walk around. Once they do that, they get to know
the neighborhood, figure out who should be watched more closely and
who should be stopped. It is called community policing.
The NYPD is also running a very effective gang unit and that helps
identify who the troublemakers actually are. Most of the violence in
the cities is gang related. Some estimate that accounts for 80% of the
murders in places like Chicago and Baltimore.

justan
Wrote in message:
- show quoted text -
Why isn't Rahm privy to all this information?
--
x


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
.....

Iimagine Rahm is about as privy as he wants. After all it seems murder and corruption are a way of life up there. They really don’t ignore it, they just readily accept it. Btw the Cook co./Chicago district has over 50,000 incarcerated 24/7.

On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:31:26 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

justan
Wrote in message:
- show quoted text -
Why isn't Rahm privy to all this information?
--
....

Iimagine Rahm is about as privy as he wants. After all it seems murder and corruption are a way of life up there. They really don’t ignore it, they just readily accept it. Btw the Cook co./Chicago district has over 50,000 incarcerated 24/7.

===

In New York City crime had become a big quality of life issue for the
middle and upper class. That may not have happened yet in Chicago,
Baltimore or Detroit. When someone you know gets robbed, assaulted or
worse, it becomes much more personal than just reading about in the
newspaper or seeing it on the 6 o'clock news.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 19:33:15 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 19:17:18 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 11/27/17 1:32 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 12:26:59 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

BTW, what's the catechism of your Libertarians on "stop and frisk,"
which you favor?


As part of a larger plan, it is not the worst thing that can happen,
particularly if the police use the Terry guidelines of reasonable
suspicion. It is hard to deny that the broken windows plan did show
striking results against the crime wave that consumed New York before
Rudy took over.
It should also be noted that in those "safe" European cities you are
always talking about, the police have been using these tactics and the
low tolerance for quality of life crimes for decades.


Not a fan of the 4th Amendment, eh? In the absence of probable cause,
why should cops be stopping and frisking...because the object of their
attention is a minority?

Ah the race card. I knew you would pull that out. Maybe they look
harder at some people because that is who is over represented in both
the shooters and the victims.
Did you even bother to look at the Baltimore Sun table of murder
victims? See anything striking about who was being shot?
Maybe they are just another biased paper you do not trust.

How much you want to bet Harry doesn't provide a pertinent answer to that?

On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 12:13:12 -0500, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 11/28/17 12:09 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:42:38 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 11/28/17 11:19 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 08:00:00 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 11/28/17 1:23 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 04:35:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

You also cleverly ignore the fact that a Chicago (or any out of state)
resident buying a handgun in Indiana is already a violation of federal
law. Both the buyer and the seller could do federal prison time.
Carrying that gun back across state lines is also a federal law
violation along with whatever Illinois and Chicago laws they are
breaking.
Do you really thing that "just one more law" is going to make any
difference at all?
I know you just want to do something so you can say you hope that will
make it better.
Why not just pray? The effect will be the same and it only seems that
way to a true believer.



Ahhh...the Fretwell solution to every serious problem...do nothing and
hope it works.


The FOAD solution. Do the same thing, add som more laws, which are make no
difference. Do the same thing and hope for a difference. Sad, you are
so biased and ignorant.

It is interesting that when Giuliani and Bratton actually came up with
something that did have a dramatic effect on violent crime, he ****s
on it and cries "racism".
What could be more racist than not doing all you can to stop the crime
that makes the streets of Chicago or Baltimore more dangerous for a
young black man than serving in Afghanistan, Iraq or Syria?



There are legit studies that show no real impact of "stop and frisk."
Easy enough to find them. Guiliani was and is a right-wing pig.

You can find "studies" that say the earth is flat and that the planet
is cooling. So what?
How many illegal guns did they get off the street? What happened to
the murder rate during the Rudy and Mike administrations?

BTW is Bloomberg a right wing pig too.



You have carefully researched data that proves what you are claiming was
not coincidental or just following along what was happening generally?

At the same time when gang violence and murders were exploding in
other cities, NYC became one of our safest. That was what "was
happening generally".


Science:

https://is.gd/HyUr4s

The discussion had to do with shootings, not 'overall crime rates'. I suppose you missed that
altogether, eh Krause?

On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 13:24:38 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 12:13:12 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 11/28/17 12:09 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:42:38 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 11/28/17 11:19 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 08:00:00 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 11/28/17 1:23 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 04:35:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

You also cleverly ignore the fact that a Chicago (or any out of state)
resident buying a handgun in Indiana is already a violation of federal
law. Both the buyer and the seller could do federal prison time.
Carrying that gun back across state lines is also a federal law
violation along with whatever Illinois and Chicago laws they are
breaking.
Do you really thing that "just one more law" is going to make any
difference at all?
I know you just want to do something so you can say you hope that will
make it better.
Why not just pray? The effect will be the same and it only seems that
way to a true believer.



Ahhh...the Fretwell solution to every serious problem...do nothing and
hope it works.


The FOAD solution. Do the same thing, add som more laws, which are make no
difference. Do the same thing and hope for a difference. Sad, you are
so biased and ignorant.

It is interesting that when Giuliani and Bratton actually came up with
something that did have a dramatic effect on violent crime, he ****s
on it and cries "racism".
What could be more racist than not doing all you can to stop the crime
that makes the streets of Chicago or Baltimore more dangerous for a
young black man than serving in Afghanistan, Iraq or Syria?



There are legit studies that show no real impact of "stop and frisk."
Easy enough to find them. Guiliani was and is a right-wing pig.

You can find "studies" that say the earth is flat and that the planet
is cooling. So what?
How many illegal guns did they get off the street? What happened to
the murder rate during the Rudy and Mike administrations?

BTW is Bloomberg a right wing pig too.



You have carefully researched data that proves what you are claiming was
not coincidental or just following along what was happening generally?

At the same time when gang violence and murders were exploding in
other cities, NYC became one of our safest. That was what "was
happening generally".


Science:

https://is.gd/HyUr4s

Do you read for content or just pick out the cherry you want?
From your article
"While violent crime overall has been declining for about two decades,
there was a sharp increase in the violent crime rate in 2015.
Homicides have continued to spike in major cities this year, "

... but it went down in New York to historic lows in 2014-15 with
murder being 3.1 per 100,000
"Crimes" doesn't mean much if you are lumping snatching a purse in
with murder.

This is what "science" looks like. You presented "opinion"
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm

The top of that spike on your unlabeled chart was Koch/Dinkins and
when Guiliani/Bloomberg took over the big drop started. (14.5 to 3.1)
I understand you prefer opinion pieces that present the point you want
to make but I prefer actually looking at the numbers.
THAT is science.

Wanna make a bet? Although I'm sure Harry will respond to this and admit he f'ed up.

On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 15:15:24 -0500,
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 11:31:26 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

justan
Wrote in message:
- show quoted text -
Why isn't Rahm privy to all this information?
--
....

Iimagine Rahm is about as privy as he wants. After all it seems murder and corruption are a way of life up there. They really don’t ignore it, they just readily accept it. Btw the Cook co./Chicago district has over 50,000 incarcerated 24/7.

===

In New York City crime had become a big quality of life issue for the
middle and upper class. That may not have happened yet in Chicago,
Baltimore or Detroit. When someone you know gets robbed, assaulted or
worse, it becomes much more personal than just reading about in the
newspaper or seeing it on the 6 o'clock news.

Chicago is more segregated than New York. If you are up on Lakeshore
Drive, you don't hear the gunshots out at Lake and Central.