On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:46:46 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:35:56 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

John H Wrote in message:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=50718774

I'm sure this is in some way absolutely atrocious, but I'm not progressively liberal enough to dig
up the atrocity.

I'm sure Harry Krause or slammer will figure it out.


We need to determine the difference between crisis and emergency
before we go picking nits over what trump said
about the drug
problem. I wonder if he's going to abandon the war on drugs and
come up with some program that will actually work.


They really need to look at the medical practitioners who got these
people hooked in the first place

They may be easier to go after than the folks bringing drugs across the border.

John H wrote:
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:46:46 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:35:56 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

John H Wrote in message:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=50718774

I'm sure this is in some way absolutely atrocious, but I'm not
progressively liberal enough to dig
up the atrocity.

I'm sure Harry Krause or slammer will figure it out.


We need to determine the difference between crisis and emergency
before we go picking nits over what trump said
about the drug
problem. I wonder if he's going to abandon the war on drugs and
come up with some program that will actually work.


They really need to look at the medical practitioners who got these
people hooked in the first place

They may be easier to go after than the folks bringing drugs across the border.


Has not worked for more than 50years.

On 10/26/17 10:35 AM, justan wrote:
John H Wrote in message:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=50718774

I'm sure this is in some way absolutely atrocious, but I'm not progressively liberal enough to dig
up the atrocity.

I'm sure Harry Krause or slammer will figure it out.


We need to determine the difference between crisis and emergency
before we go picking nits over what trump said
about the drug
problem. I wonder if he's going to abandon the war on drugs and
come up with some program that will actually work.




Looks like President Empathy is just going to not solve the crisis by
re-allocating funds. If only there was a better way for some of his
buddies to make big bucks over getting folks off opioids, eh?

On 10/26/2017 1:59 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/26/17 10:35 AM, justan wrote:
John H Wrote in message:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=50718774


I'm sure this is in some way absolutely atrocious, but I'm not
progressively liberal enough to dig
up the atrocity.

I'm sure Harry Krause or slammer will figure it out.


We need to determine the difference between crisis and emergency
* before we go picking nits over what trump said
about the drug
* problem. I wonder if he's going to abandon the war on drugs and
* come up with some program that will actually work.



Looks like President Empathy is just going to not solve the crisis by
re-allocating funds. If only there was a better way for some of his
buddies to make big bucks over getting folks off opioids, eh?


What works now?

On 10/26/17 2:10 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/26/2017 1:59 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/26/17 10:35 AM, justan wrote:
John H Wrote in message:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=50718774


I'm sure this is in some way absolutely atrocious, but I'm not
progressively liberal enough to dig
up the atrocity.

I'm sure Harry Krause or slammer will figure it out.


We need to determine the difference between crisis and emergency
* before we go picking nits over what trump said
about the drug
* problem. I wonder if he's going to abandon the war on drugs and
* come up with some program that will actually work.



Looks like President Empathy is just going to not solve the crisis by
re-allocating funds. If only there was a better way for some of his
buddies to make big bucks over getting folks off opioids, eh?


What works now?



Depends on the cause of the addiction. As an example, a large number of
those addicted got that way because they were prescribed opioids to
counter the pain from work-related injuries or the years of abuse from
doing physically demanding jobs that break down the body. These guys
(they are mostly men) need to get back to work, but can't work at their
old jobs without the painkillers. Some of them can be trained for new,
less physically demanding jobs that still pay well, and allow them to
work full-time without opioids or with aspirin or Tylenol or similar
meds, counseling, physical therapy, and pain management professionals.

On 10/26/2017 2:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/26/17 2:10 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/26/2017 1:59 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/26/17 10:35 AM, justan wrote:
John H Wrote in message:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=50718774


I'm sure this is in some way absolutely atrocious, but I'm not
progressively liberal enough to dig
up the atrocity.

I'm sure Harry Krause or slammer will figure it out.


We need to determine the difference between crisis and emergency
* before we go picking nits over what trump said
about the drug
* problem. I wonder if he's going to abandon the war on drugs and
* come up with some program that will actually work.



Looks like President Empathy is just going to not solve the crisis by
re-allocating funds. If only there was a better way for some of his
buddies to make big bucks over getting folks off opioids, eh?


What works now?



Depends on the cause of the addiction. As an example, a large number of
those addicted got that way because they were prescribed opioids to
counter the pain from work-related injuries or the years of abuse from
doing physically demanding jobs that break down the body. These guys
(they are mostly men) need to get back to work, but can't work at their
old jobs without the painkillers. Some of them can be trained for new,
less physically demanding jobs that still pay well, and allow them to
work full-time without opioids or with aspirin or Tylenol or similar
meds, counseling, physical therapy, and pain management professionals.


Wow, you are totally uninformed about addiction. Once addicted, *that*
becomes the issue, not pain management or re-training for another job.
Most people addicted to opioids are long over whatever caused them to
get hooked to begin with.

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:36:21 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 10/26/17 2:10 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/26/2017 1:59 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/26/17 10:35 AM, justan wrote:
John H Wrote in message:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=50718774


I'm sure this is in some way absolutely atrocious, but I'm not
progressively liberal enough to dig
up the atrocity.

I'm sure Harry Krause or slammer will figure it out.


We need to determine the difference between crisis and emergency
Â* before we go picking nits over what trump said
about the drug
Â* problem. I wonder if he's going to abandon the war on drugs and
Â* come up with some program that will actually work.



Looks like President Empathy is just going to not solve the crisis by
re-allocating funds. If only there was a better way for some of his
buddies to make big bucks over getting folks off opioids, eh?


What works now?



Depends on the cause of the addiction. As an example, a large number of
those addicted got that way because they were prescribed opioids to
counter the pain from work-related injuries or the years of abuse from
doing physically demanding jobs that break down the body. These guys
(they are mostly men) need to get back to work, but can't work at their
old jobs without the painkillers. Some of them can be trained for new,
less physically demanding jobs that still pay well, and allow them to
work full-time without opioids or with aspirin or Tylenol or similar
meds, counseling, physical therapy, and pain management professionals.

That is certainly the pattern but I think the doctors leaned on drugs
too much early on and not enough on physical therapy and saying "suck
it up pussy". I know I have been offered, almost forced, to take
prescriptions for drugs that were far too powerful for the pain I had
and do nothing to mitigate the cause. This is everyone from my sports
medicine guy to my dentist. In most cases that involve injury, the
drugs actually exacerbate the injury because being numb, you keep re
injuring yourself. Pain has a function in the body..
I will admit I am scared of "smack", in any form but that is because I
have lots of experience with people who have had trouble (or still
have trouble) with it. I also see little difference between Vicodin
and black tar heroin if you are taking it. That is why the transition
is so easy. When you chase the dragon you are putting your life on the
line.

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:10:15 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Looks like President Empathy is just going to not solve the crisis by
re-allocating funds. If only there was a better way for some of his
buddies to make big bucks over getting folks off opioids, eh?


What works now?


The only thing I have seen that works is hitting bottom hard, sleeping
outdoors and perhaps with a little prison time but it is still not a
certainty.
The "kid" (I still think of him as a kid but he is over 50) next door
seems to have turned the corner but it had nothing to do with rehab.
He just got tired of sleeping in the woods when he wasn't locked up. I
know Harry will scoff but he found Jesus too. He is not devout but he
did find friends there who accepted him and are not stoned all the
time.
I think the black sheep brother in my wife's family may be turning it
around too but he is over 60. (same deal almost exactly)
I have not heard from my Marine Recon buddy recently but he was still
bouncing off the bottom the last time I heard from him. The VA might
even be an enabler in that case.

On 10/26/2017 4:24 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:10:15 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Looks like President Empathy is just going to not solve the crisis by
re-allocating funds. If only there was a better way for some of his
buddies to make big bucks over getting folks off opioids, eh?


What works now?


The only thing I have seen that works is hitting bottom hard, sleeping
outdoors and perhaps with a little prison time but it is still not a
certainty.
The "kid" (I still think of him as a kid but he is over 50) next door
seems to have turned the corner but it had nothing to do with rehab.
He just got tired of sleeping in the woods when he wasn't locked up. I
know Harry will scoff but he found Jesus too. He is not devout but he
did find friends there who accepted him and are not stoned all the
time.
I think the black sheep brother in my wife's family may be turning it
around too but he is over 60. (same deal almost exactly)
I have not heard from my Marine Recon buddy recently but he was still
bouncing off the bottom the last time I heard from him. The VA might
even be an enabler in that case.



The VA up here has an excellent, long term treatment program that is
highly successful for those who go through the entire 6 months.
The problem is most will lose their jobs after 30 days and addicts and
alcoholics don't always want to face that, especially when they have
financial obligations to families, etc. They have to hit "rock bottom"
before they are willing to consider it.

However, the VA also has a placement program for those who need to
find a new job once they have "graduated".