On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 16:28:15 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:18:50 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 12:25:48 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/26/2017 11:15 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 10:35:56 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

John H Wrote in message:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=50718774

I'm sure this is in some way absolutely atrocious, but I'm not progressively liberal enough to dig
up the atrocity.

I'm sure Harry Krause or slammer will figure it out.


We need to determine the difference between crisis and emergency
before we go picking nits over what trump said
about the drug
problem. I wonder if he's going to abandon the war on drugs and
come up with some program that will actually work.


===

The war on drugs doesn't work, just like prohibition didn't work, and
for the same reason - demand was there and suppliers will always step
into the breach. Just like alchohol, the solution will be
legalization, taxation and control. It will also solve a huge crime
problem. It's not a perfect solution but better than what we are
doing now because it will put dealers, distributors, drug gangs and
smugglers out of business. Users will still get addicted and over
dose but that's happening now.


I've heard talk recently of a vaccine being developed to combat opioid
addiction.

Wasn't that what methadone was supposed to do? The guy next door ended
up hooked on methadone.
It reminds me of people who got the gum to stop smoking and now they
have a $250 a month gum habit.

I'll have you know my gum habit runs less than $15/month!

Wrigleys?

wrote:
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:36:21 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 10/26/17 2:10 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/26/2017 1:59 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/26/17 10:35 AM, justan wrote:
John H Wrote in message:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=50718774



I'm sure this is in some way absolutely atrocious, but I'm not
progressively liberal enough to dig
up the atrocity.

I'm sure Harry Krause or slammer will figure it out.


We need to determine the difference between crisis and emergency
Â* before we go picking nits over what trump said
about the drug
Â* problem. I wonder if he's going to abandon the war on drugs and
Â* come up with some program that will actually work.



Looks like President Empathy is just going to not solve the crisis by
re-allocating funds. If only there was a better way for some of his
buddies to make big bucks over getting folks off opioids, eh?


What works now?



Depends on the cause of the addiction. As an example, a large number of
those addicted got that way because they were prescribed opioids to
counter the pain from work-related injuries or the years of abuse from
doing physically demanding jobs that break down the body. These guys
(they are mostly men) need to get back to work, but can't work at their
old jobs without the painkillers. Some of them can be trained for new,
less physically demanding jobs that still pay well, and allow them to
work full-time without opioids or with aspirin or Tylenol or similar
meds, counseling, physical therapy, and pain management professionals.

That is certainly the pattern but I think the doctors leaned on drugs
too much early on and not enough on physical therapy and saying "suck
it up pussy". I know I have been offered, almost forced, to take
prescriptions for drugs that were far too powerful for the pain I had
and do nothing to mitigate the cause. This is everyone from my sports
medicine guy to my dentist. In most cases that involve injury, the
drugs actually exacerbate the injury because being numb, you keep re
injuring yourself. Pain has a function in the body..
I will admit I am scared of "smack", in any form but that is because I
have lots of experience with people who have had trouble (or still
have trouble) with it. I also see little difference between Vicodin
and black tar heroin if you are taking it. That is why the transition
is so easy. When you chase the dragon you are putting your life on the
line.


Look at Steve Kerr, Warriors Basketball coach. He had failed back surgery.
He tells why he is a cannabis user. He said the opioids and their side
effects were way scary. And did no better job of relieving pain then pot
gummy bears, with a whole lot more bad sides.

Its Me Wrote in message:
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 2:45:25 PM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/26/2017 2:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/26/17 2:10 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/26/2017 1:59 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/26/17 10:35 AM, justan wrote:
John H Wrote in message:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=50718774


I'm sure this is in some way absolutely atrocious, but I'm not
progressively liberal enough to dig
up the atrocity.

I'm sure Harry Krause or slammer will figure it out.


We need to determine the difference between crisis and emergency
before we go picking nits over what trump said
about the drug
problem. I wonder if he's going to abandon the war on drugs and
come up with some program that will actually work.



Looks like President Empathy is just going to not solve the crisis by
re-allocating funds. If only there was a better way for some of his
buddies to make big bucks over getting folks off opioids, eh?


What works now?



Depends on the cause of the addiction. As an example, a large number of
those addicted got that way because they were prescribed opioids to
counter the pain from work-related injuries or the years of abuse from
doing physically demanding jobs that break down the body. These guys
(they are mostly men) need to get back to work, but can't work at their
old jobs without the painkillers. Some of them can be trained for new,
less physically demanding jobs that still pay well, and allow them to
work full-time without opioids or with aspirin or Tylenol or similar
meds, counseling, physical therapy, and pain management professionals.


Wow, you are totally uninformed about addiction. Once addicted, *that*
becomes the issue, not pain management or re-training for another job.
Most people addicted to opioids are long over whatever caused them to
get hooked to begin with.

Hey, he fed you the union line.


More specifically, the line the union pays his wife to sell,
weather she believes it or not.
--
x


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 10/26/2017 4:17 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 2:45:25 PM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/26/2017 2:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/26/17 2:10 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/26/2017 1:59 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/26/17 10:35 AM, justan wrote:
John H Wrote in message:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=50718774


I'm sure this is in some way absolutely atrocious, but I'm not
progressively liberal enough to dig
up the atrocity.

I'm sure Harry Krause or slammer will figure it out.


We need to determine the difference between crisis and emergency
Â* before we go picking nits over what trump said
about the drug
Â* problem. I wonder if he's going to abandon the war on drugs and
Â* come up with some program that will actually work.



Looks like President Empathy is just going to not solve the crisis by
re-allocating funds. If only there was a better way for some of his
buddies to make big bucks over getting folks off opioids, eh?


What works now?



Depends on the cause of the addiction. As an example, a large number of
those addicted got that way because they were prescribed opioids to
counter the pain from work-related injuries or the years of abuse from
doing physically demanding jobs that break down the body. These guys
(they are mostly men) need to get back to work, but can't work at their
old jobs without the painkillers. Some of them can be trained for new,
less physically demanding jobs that still pay well, and allow them to
work full-time without opioids or with aspirin or Tylenol or similar
meds, counseling, physical therapy, and pain management professionals.


Wow, you are totally uninformed about addiction. Once addicted, *that*
becomes the issue, not pain management or re-training for another job.
Most people addicted to opioids are long over whatever caused them to
get hooked to begin with.


Hey, he fed you the union line.


He sure did. Talk about lack of empathy. :-)

justan Wrote in message:
Its Me Wrote in message:
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 2:45:25 PM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/26/2017 2:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/26/17 2:10 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/26/2017 1:59 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/26/17 10:35 AM, justan wrote:
John H Wrote in message:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=50718774


I'm sure this is in some way absolutely atrocious, but I'm not
progressively liberal enough to dig
up the atrocity.

I'm sure Harry Krause or slammer will figure it out.


We need to determine the difference between crisis and emergency
before we go picking nits over what trump said
about the drug
problem. I wonder if he's going to abandon the war on drugs and
come up with some program that will actually work.



Looks like President Empathy is just going to not solve the crisis by
re-allocating funds. If only there was a better way for some of his
buddies to make big bucks over getting folks off opioids, eh?


What works now?



Depends on the cause of the addiction. As an example, a large number of
those addicted got that way because they were prescribed opioids to
counter the pain from work-related injuries or the years of abuse from
doing physically demanding jobs that break down the body. These guys
(they are mostly men) need to get back to work, but can't work at their
old jobs without the painkillers. Some of them can be trained for new,
less physically demanding jobs that still pay well, and allow them to
work full-time without opioids or with aspirin or Tylenol or similar
meds, counseling, physical therapy, and pain management professionals.


Wow, you are totally uninformed about addiction. Once addicted, *that*
becomes the issue, not pain management or re-training for another job.
Most people addicted to opioids are long over whatever caused them to
get hooked to begin with.

Hey, he fed you the union line.


More specifically, the line the union pays his wife to sell,
weather she believes it or not.
--
x


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/


Make that whether
--
x


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 10/26/17 6:15 PM, justan wrote:
Its Me Wrote in message:
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 2:45:25 PM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/26/2017 2:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/26/17 2:10 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/26/2017 1:59 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/26/17 10:35 AM, justan wrote:
John H Wrote in message:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=50718774


I'm sure this is in some way absolutely atrocious, but I'm not
progressively liberal enough to dig
up the atrocity.

I'm sure Harry Krause or slammer will figure it out.


We need to determine the difference between crisis and emergency
before we go picking nits over what trump said
about the drug
problem. I wonder if he's going to abandon the war on drugs and
come up with some program that will actually work.



Looks like President Empathy is just going to not solve the crisis by
re-allocating funds. If only there was a better way for some of his
buddies to make big bucks over getting folks off opioids, eh?


What works now?



Depends on the cause of the addiction. As an example, a large number of
those addicted got that way because they were prescribed opioids to
counter the pain from work-related injuries or the years of abuse from
doing physically demanding jobs that break down the body. These guys
(they are mostly men) need to get back to work, but can't work at their
old jobs without the painkillers. Some of them can be trained for new,
less physically demanding jobs that still pay well, and allow them to
work full-time without opioids or with aspirin or Tylenol or similar
meds, counseling, physical therapy, and pain management professionals.


Wow, you are totally uninformed about addiction. Once addicted, *that*
becomes the issue, not pain management or re-training for another job.
Most people addicted to opioids are long over whatever caused them to
get hooked to begin with.

Hey, he fed you the union line.


More specifically, the line the union pays his wife to sell,
weather she believes it or not.


D'uh. My wife doesn't sell the sort of bull**** that guides your vacuous
life, **** for brains. She helps people with psychological-emotional
problems, family problems, drug addiction problems, disaster relief
problems, et cetera. It's too bad you have no one to contact to help you
with your many psychological problems.

On 10/26/17 6:17 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/26/2017 4:17 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 2:45:25 PM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/26/2017 2:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/26/17 2:10 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/26/2017 1:59 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/26/17 10:35 AM, justan wrote:
John H Wrote in message:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=50718774



I'm sure this is in some way absolutely atrocious, but I'm not
progressively liberal enough to dig
up the atrocity.

I'm sure Harry Krause or slammer will figure it out.


We need to determine the difference between crisis and emergency
Â*Â* before we go picking nits over what trump said
about the drug
Â*Â* problem. I wonder if he's going to abandon the war on drugs and
Â*Â* come up with some program that will actually work.



Looks like President Empathy is just going to not solve the crisis by
re-allocating funds. If only there was a better way for some of his
buddies to make big bucks over getting folks off opioids, eh?


What works now?



Depends on the cause of the addiction. As an example, a large number of
those addicted got that way because they were prescribed opioids to
counter the pain from work-related injuries or the years of abuse from
doing physically demanding jobs that break down the body. These guys
(they are mostly men) need to get back to work, but can't work at their
old jobs without the painkillers. Some of them can be trained for new,
less physically demanding jobs that still pay well, and allow them to
work full-time without opioids or with aspirin or Tylenol or similar
meds, counseling, physical therapy, and pain management professionals.


Wow, you are totally uninformed about addiction.Â* Once addicted, *that*
becomes the issue, not pain management or re-training for another job.
Most people addicted to opioids are long over whatever caused them to
get hooked to begin with.


Hey, he fed you the union line.


He sure did.Â* Talk about lack of empathy.Â*Â* :-)


As if you assholes had any idea of how tough on the body the sort of
work many construction workers do every day.

On 10/26/2017 4:24 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:10:15 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Looks like President Empathy is just going to not solve the crisis by
re-allocating funds. If only there was a better way for some of his
buddies to make big bucks over getting folks off opioids, eh?


What works now?


The only thing I have seen that works is hitting bottom hard, sleeping
outdoors and perhaps with a little prison time but it is still not a
certainty.
The "kid" (I still think of him as a kid but he is over 50) next door
seems to have turned the corner but it had nothing to do with rehab.
He just got tired of sleeping in the woods when he wasn't locked up. I
know Harry will scoff but he found Jesus too. He is not devout but he
did find friends there who accepted him and are not stoned all the
time.
I think the black sheep brother in my wife's family may be turning it
around too but he is over 60. (same deal almost exactly)
I have not heard from my Marine Recon buddy recently but he was still
bouncing off the bottom the last time I heard from him. The VA might
even be an enabler in that case.



The VA up here has an excellent, long term treatment program that is
highly successful for those who go through the entire 6 months.
The problem is most will lose their jobs after 30 days and addicts and
alcoholics don't always want to face that, especially when they have
financial obligations to families, etc. They have to hit "rock bottom"
before they are willing to consider it.

However, the VA also has a placement program for those who need to
find a new job once they have "graduated".

On 10/26/2017 6:27 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/26/17 6:17 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/26/2017 4:17 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 2:45:25 PM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/26/2017 2:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/26/17 2:10 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/26/2017 1:59 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/26/17 10:35 AM, justan wrote:
John H Wrote in message:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=50718774



I'm sure this is in some way absolutely atrocious, but I'm not
progressively liberal enough to dig
up the atrocity.

I'm sure Harry Krause or slammer will figure it out.


We need to determine the difference between crisis and emergency
Â*Â* before we go picking nits over what trump said
about the drug
Â*Â* problem. I wonder if he's going to abandon the war on drugs and
Â*Â* come up with some program that will actually work.



Looks like President Empathy is just going to not solve the
crisis by
re-allocating funds. If only there was a better way for some of his
buddies to make big bucks over getting folks off opioids, eh?


What works now?



Depends on the cause of the addiction. As an example, a large
number of
those addicted got that way because they were prescribed opioids to
counter the pain from work-related injuries or the years of abuse from
doing physically demanding jobs that break down the body. These guys
(they are mostly men) need to get back to work, but can't work at
their
old jobs without the painkillers. Some of them can be trained for new,
less physically demanding jobs that still pay well, and allow them to
work full-time without opioids or with aspirin or Tylenol or similar
meds, counseling, physical therapy, and pain management professionals.


Wow, you are totally uninformed about addiction.Â* Once addicted, *that*
becomes the issue, not pain management or re-training for another job.
Most people addicted to opioids are long over whatever caused them to
get hooked to begin with.


Hey, he fed you the union line.


He sure did.Â* Talk about lack of empathy.Â*Â* :-)


As if you assholes had any idea of how tough on the body the sort of
work many construction workers do every day.


What makes you think us "assholes" don't?

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 18:27:04 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

As if you assholes had any idea of how tough on the body the sort of
work many construction workers do every day.

Really?