In article ,
says...

On Friday, September 13, 2013 6:15:41 AM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:



That's an absurd posit on the part of Kates and Mauser. There are

decades of evidence showing that the United States, with virtually no

gun controls, has among the highest rates of murder by gun in the

western world.

Cook County/ Chicago IL. has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation, yet one of, if not the highest gun/murder rates in the nation as well. so....

Therefore gun control results in more murders.

On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 17:11:26 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Friday, September 13, 2013 6:15:41 AM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:



That's an absurd posit on the part of Kates and Mauser. There are

decades of evidence showing that the United States, with virtually no

gun controls, has among the highest rates of murder by gun in the

western world.

Cook County/ Chicago IL. has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation, yet one of, if not the highest gun/murder rates in the nation as well. so....

Therefore gun control results in more murders.

They're relaxing some of their gun control. Maybe the homicide rate will go down now.

John (Gun Nut) H.
--

Hope you're having a great day!

"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 9/13/13 7:10 AM, Tim wrote:
On Friday, September 13, 2013 1:38:46 AM UTC-5, jps wrote:
Researchers in the United States claim to have established a

convincing statistical link between gun ownership and homicide,

according to a new study.



The study, which appears in the American Journal of Public Health,

challenges the National Rifle Association s claim that increased gun

ownership does not lead to higher levels of gun violence.



Covering 30 years from 1981 and all 50 US states, it determined that

for every one percentage point in the prevalence of gun ownership in a

given state, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9 percent.



In the absence of state-level data on household gun ownership, the

study used a proxy variable the percentage of a state s suicides

committed with a firearm that has been validated in previous

research.



The study, led by Boston University community health sciences

professor Michael Siegel, is the first of its kind since the December

2012 mass shooting of 20 children at Sandy Hook Elementary School in

Newtown, Connecticut.



In the wake of the tragic shooting in Newtown many states are

considering legislation to control firearm-related deaths, said

Siegel in a statement.



This research is the strongest to date to document that states with

higher levels of gun ownership have disproportionately large numbers

of deaths from firearm-related homicides, he said.



It suggests that measures which succeed in decreasing the overall

prevalence of guns will lower firearm homicide rates.



The study found that, over three decades, the mean estimated

percentage of gun ownership ranged from a low of 25.8 percent in

Hawaii to a high of 76.8 percent in Mississippi, with a national

average of 57.7 percent.



The mean age-adjusted firearm homicide rate stretched from 0.9 percent

per 100,000 in New Hampshire to 1.8 percent in Louisiana, with an

average for all states of four per 100,000.



The study also acknowledged a long-term decline in firearm homicide

for all states, from 5.2 per 100,000 in 1981 to 3.5 per 100,000 in

2010.



Firearms were involved in 11,078 homicides of the 16,259 homicides in

the United States in 2010, the latest year for which data is

available, according to the Centers for Disease Control and

Prevention.

Kates and Mauser clarify that they are not suggesting that gun control
causes nations to have higher murder rates, rather, they "observed
correlations that nations with stringent gun controls tend to have much
higher murder rates than nations that allow guns."

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/b...ence-with-ban/


That's an absurd posit on the part of Kates and Mauser. There are decades
of evidence showing that the United States, with virtually no gun
controls, has among the highest rates of murder by gun in the western world.

Japan has great gun control, and also the highest rate of suicide. Just
different tools to death. Basically we have societal breakdown in some of
our cities. Why? 250 murders already in Chicago, 100 in Oakland. How
many prosecutions? How many arrested? Look at the uproar over Zimmerman,
vs. nothing said about the massive black on black killing. Most of the
killing is caused by drug wars. Maybe we ought to look at our drug laws,
as well as the welfare rules, that create these death societies.

On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 19:30:54 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 23:38:46 -0700, jps wrote:


Researchers in the United States claim to have established a
convincing statistical link between gun ownership and homicide,
according to a new study.

The study, which appears in the American Journal of Public Health,
challenges the National Rifle Association’s claim that increased gun
ownership does not lead to higher levels of gun violence.

Covering 30 years from 1981 and all 50 US states, it determined that
for every one percentage point in the prevalence of gun ownership in a
given state, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9 percent.

In the absence of state-level data on household gun ownership, the
study used a proxy variable — the percentage of a state’s suicides
committed with a firearm — that has been validated in previous
research.

The study, led by Boston University community health sciences
professor Michael Siegel, is the first of its kind since the December
2012 mass shooting of 20 children at Sandy Hook Elementary School in
Newtown, Connecticut.

“In the wake of the tragic shooting in Newtown … many states are
considering legislation to control firearm-related deaths,” said
Siegel in a statement.

“This research is the strongest to date to document that states with
higher levels of gun ownership have disproportionately large numbers
of deaths from firearm-related homicides,” he said.

“It suggests that measures which succeed in decreasing the overall
prevalence of guns will lower firearm homicide rates.”

The study found that, over three decades, the mean estimated
percentage of gun ownership ranged from a low of 25.8 percent in
Hawaii to a high of 76.8 percent in Mississippi, with a national
average of 57.7 percent.

The mean age-adjusted firearm homicide rate stretched from 0.9 percent
per 100,000 in New Hampshire to 1.8 percent in Louisiana, with an
average for all states of four per 100,000.

The study also acknowledged a long-term decline in firearm homicide
for all states, from 5.2 per 100,000 in 1981 to 3.5 per 100,000 in
2010.

Firearms were involved in 11,078 homicides of the 16,259 homicides in
the United States in 2010, the latest year for which data is
available, according to the Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention.

Cite?

Loogy?
--

John H.

Hope you're having a great day!

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 19:30:54 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 23:38:46 -0700, jps wrote:


Researchers in the United States claim to have established a
convincing statistical link between gun ownership and homicide,
according to a new study.

The study, which appears in the American Journal of Public Health,
challenges the National Rifle Association?s claim that increased gun
ownership does not lead to higher levels of gun violence.

Covering 30 years from 1981 and all 50 US states, it determined that
for every one percentage point in the prevalence of gun ownership in a
given state, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9 percent.

In the absence of state-level data on household gun ownership, the
study used a proxy variable ? the percentage of a state?s suicides
committed with a firearm ? that has been validated in previous
research.

The study, led by Boston University community health sciences
professor Michael Siegel, is the first of its kind since the December
2012 mass shooting of 20 children at Sandy Hook Elementary School in
Newtown, Connecticut.

?In the wake of the tragic shooting in Newtown ? many states are
considering legislation to control firearm-related deaths,? said
Siegel in a statement.

?This research is the strongest to date to document that states with
higher levels of gun ownership have disproportionately large numbers
of deaths from firearm-related homicides,? he said.

?It suggests that measures which succeed in decreasing the overall
prevalence of guns will lower firearm homicide rates.?

The study found that, over three decades, the mean estimated
percentage of gun ownership ranged from a low of 25.8 percent in
Hawaii to a high of 76.8 percent in Mississippi, with a national
average of 57.7 percent.

The mean age-adjusted firearm homicide rate stretched from 0.9 percent
per 100,000 in New Hampshire to 1.8 percent in Louisiana, with an
average for all states of four per 100,000.

The study also acknowledged a long-term decline in firearm homicide
for all states, from 5.2 per 100,000 in 1981 to 3.5 per 100,000 in
2010.

Firearms were involved in 11,078 homicides of the 16,259 homicides in
the United States in 2010, the latest year for which data is
available, according to the Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention.

Cite?

Loogy?

You stupid old fool, can you not read: "Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention"????

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 20 Sep 2013 11:18:24 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

Firearms were involved in 11,078 homicides of the 16,259 homicides in
the United States in 2010, the latest year for which data is
available, according to the Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention.

Cite?

Loogy?

You stupid old fool, can you not read: "Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention"????

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

That just demonstrates people are lazy.

Take away the guns and they will find another way.

Asked for a cite, cite given. Of course you'll put a narrow minded spin
on it!

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 19:43:50 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 19:30:54 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 23:38:46 -0700, jps wrote:


Researchers in the United States claim to have established a
convincing statistical link between gun ownership and homicide,
according to a new study.

The study, which appears in the American Journal of Public Health,
challenges the National Rifle Association?s claim that increased gun
ownership does not lead to higher levels of gun violence.

Covering 30 years from 1981 and all 50 US states, it determined that
for every one percentage point in the prevalence of gun ownership in a
given state, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9 percent.

In the absence of state-level data on household gun ownership, the
study used a proxy variable ? the percentage of a state?s suicides
committed with a firearm ? that has been validated in previous
research.

The study, led by Boston University community health sciences
professor Michael Siegel, is the first of its kind since the December
2012 mass shooting of 20 children at Sandy Hook Elementary School in
Newtown, Connecticut.

?In the wake of the tragic shooting in Newtown ? many states are
considering legislation to control firearm-related deaths,? said
Siegel in a statement.

?This research is the strongest to date to document that states with
higher levels of gun ownership have disproportionately large numbers
of deaths from firearm-related homicides,? he said.

?It suggests that measures which succeed in decreasing the overall
prevalence of guns will lower firearm homicide rates.?

The study found that, over three decades, the mean estimated
percentage of gun ownership ranged from a low of 25.8 percent in
Hawaii to a high of 76.8 percent in Mississippi, with a national
average of 57.7 percent.

The mean age-adjusted firearm homicide rate stretched from 0.9 percent
per 100,000 in New Hampshire to 1.8 percent in Louisiana, with an
average for all states of four per 100,000.

The study also acknowledged a long-term decline in firearm homicide
for all states, from 5.2 per 100,000 in 1981 to 3.5 per 100,000 in
2010.

Firearms were involved in 11,078 homicides of the 16,259 homicides in
the United States in 2010, the latest year for which data is
available, according to the Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention.

Cite?

Loogy?

No, John, not Loogy, but even he wouldn't be wrong to ask for a cite
to as stupid an assertion such as, "Researchers in the United States
claim to have established a convincing statistical link... "

Which researchers?
Claim?
Convincing statistical link?
Really?

I'd still like to see the citation that supports this silly
allegation.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 20 Sep 2013 11:18:45 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 19:43:50 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 19:30:54 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 23:38:46 -0700, jps wrote:


Researchers in the United States claim to have established a
convincing statistical link between gun ownership and homicide,
according to a new study.

The study, which appears in the American Journal of Public Health,
challenges the National Rifle Association?s claim that increased gun
ownership does not lead to higher levels of gun violence.

Covering 30 years from 1981 and all 50 US states, it determined that
for every one percentage point in the prevalence of gun ownership in a
given state, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9 percent.

In the absence of state-level data on household gun ownership, the
study used a proxy variable ? the percentage of a state?s suicides
committed with a firearm ? that has been validated in previous
research.

The study, led by Boston University community health sciences
professor Michael Siegel, is the first of its kind since the December
2012 mass shooting of 20 children at Sandy Hook Elementary School in
Newtown, Connecticut.

?In the wake of the tragic shooting in Newtown ? many states are
considering legislation to control firearm-related deaths,? said
Siegel in a statement.

?This research is the strongest to date to document that states with
higher levels of gun ownership have disproportionately large numbers
of deaths from firearm-related homicides,? he said.

?It suggests that measures which succeed in decreasing the overall
prevalence of guns will lower firearm homicide rates.?

The study found that, over three decades, the mean estimated
percentage of gun ownership ranged from a low of 25.8 percent in
Hawaii to a high of 76.8 percent in Mississippi, with a national
average of 57.7 percent.

The mean age-adjusted firearm homicide rate stretched from 0.9 percent
per 100,000 in New Hampshire to 1.8 percent in Louisiana, with an
average for all states of four per 100,000.

The study also acknowledged a long-term decline in firearm homicide
for all states, from 5.2 per 100,000 in 1981 to 3.5 per 100,000 in
2010.

Firearms were involved in 11,078 homicides of the 16,259 homicides in
the United States in 2010, the latest year for which data is
available, according to the Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention.

Cite?

Loogy?

No, John, not Loogy, but even he wouldn't be wrong to ask for a cite
to as stupid an assertion such as, "Researchers in the United States
claim to have established a convincing statistical link... "

Which researchers?
Claim?
Convincing statistical link?
Really?

I'd still like to see the citation that supports this silly
allegation.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

That is what I thought. No cite to the "study" described, just raw
data from the CDC.

Can't extrapolate the data?

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 21 Sep 2013 10:23:46 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 20 Sep 2013 11:18:45 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 19:43:50 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 19:30:54 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 12 Sep 2013 23:38:46 -0700, jps wrote:


Researchers in the United States claim to have established a
convincing statistical link between gun ownership and homicide,
according to a new study.

The study, which appears in the American Journal of Public Health,
challenges the National Rifle Association?s claim that increased gun
ownership does not lead to higher levels of gun violence.

Covering 30 years from 1981 and all 50 US states, it determined that
for every one percentage point in the prevalence of gun ownership in a
given state, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9 percent.

In the absence of state-level data on household gun ownership, the
study used a proxy variable ? the percentage of a state?s suicides
committed with a firearm ? that has been validated in previous
research.

The study, led by Boston University community health sciences
professor Michael Siegel, is the first of its kind since the December
2012 mass shooting of 20 children at Sandy Hook Elementary School in
Newtown, Connecticut.

?In the wake of the tragic shooting in Newtown ? many states are
considering legislation to control firearm-related deaths,? said
Siegel in a statement.

?This research is the strongest to date to document that states with
higher levels of gun ownership have disproportionately large numbers
of deaths from firearm-related homicides,? he said.

?It suggests that measures which succeed in decreasing the overall
prevalence of guns will lower firearm homicide rates.?

The study found that, over three decades, the mean estimated
percentage of gun ownership ranged from a low of 25.8 percent in
Hawaii to a high of 76.8 percent in Mississippi, with a national
average of 57.7 percent.

The mean age-adjusted firearm homicide rate stretched from 0.9 percent
per 100,000 in New Hampshire to 1.8 percent in Louisiana, with an
average for all states of four per 100,000.

The study also acknowledged a long-term decline in firearm homicide
for all states, from 5.2 per 100,000 in 1981 to 3.5 per 100,000 in
2010.

Firearms were involved in 11,078 homicides of the 16,259 homicides in
the United States in 2010, the latest year for which data is
available, according to the Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention.

Cite?

Loogy?

No, John, not Loogy, but even he wouldn't be wrong to ask for a cite
to as stupid an assertion such as, "Researchers in the United States
claim to have established a convincing statistical link... "

Which researchers?
Claim?
Convincing statistical link?
Really?

I'd still like to see the citation that supports this silly
allegation.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

That is what I thought. No cite to the "study" described, just raw
data from the CDC.

Can't extrapolate the data?


No, I don't choose to "extrapolate," since that yields an opinion or
attempts expand known data into an area not known so as to arrive at a
conjectural position.

No it doesn't. I didn't ask you to make an opinon, I asked you to
extrapolate. You yourself said it was "raw data".

In other words, I'm not going to perpetuate rumor or attempt to divine
tea leaves, so as to support a predisposed position.

No rumors involved. It's "raw data".

Besides, researchers have already crunched the existing data and found
it to support the following position:

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/b...ence-with-ban/

That's because there are no fewer guns. No one made anybody get rid of
what they have. You do realize, don't you, that most gun crimes are
committed with guns that were either stolen or borrowed from a legal
owner, don't you?

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 21 Sep 2013 15:35:33 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:



No, John, not Loogy, but even he wouldn't be wrong to ask for a cite
to as stupid an assertion such as, "Researchers in the United States
claim to have established a convincing statistical link... "

Which researchers?
Claim?
Convincing statistical link?
Really?

I'd still like to see the citation that supports this silly
allegation.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

That is what I thought. No cite to the "study" described, just raw
data from the CDC.

Can't extrapolate the data?


No, I don't choose to "extrapolate," since that yields an opinion or
attempts expand known data into an area not known so as to arrive at a
conjectural position.

No it doesn't. I didn't ask you to make an opinon, I asked you to
extrapolate. You yourself said it was "raw data".

In other words, I'm not going to perpetuate rumor or attempt to divine
tea leaves, so as to support a predisposed position.

No rumors involved. It's "raw data".

Besides, researchers have already crunched the existing data and found
it to support the following position:

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/b...ence-with-ban/

That's because there are no fewer guns. No one made anybody get rid of
what they have. You do realize, don't you, that most gun crimes are
committed with guns that were either stolen or borrowed from a legal
owner, don't you?

"The study found that, over three decades, the mean estimated
percentage of gun ownership ranged from a low of 25.8 percent in
Hawaii to a high of 76.8 percent in Mississippi, with a national
average of 57.7 percent."

THAT is raw data.

But finding correlation and drawing a final conclusion, without
establishing causation is sophomoric, at best.

I suggest you review the following paragraph on cause and effect:
http://www.vassarstats.net/textbook/ch3pt2.html

I suggest you read the whole thing instead of just cherry picking one
paragraph. THAT is "sophomoric, at best".