On Jun 23, 3:46*pm, HK wrote:
jps wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 05:53:35 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Jun 23, 7:43 am, BAR wrote:
Tim wrote:
On Jun 23, 5:47 am, HK wrote:
Tim wrote:
On Jun 23, 5:17 am, HK wrote:
That's not the point, tim. The fact remains that in many underdeveloped
countries, especially in central and south america, evangelical
christians use the "help" they offer impoverished native peoples as a
hook to "convert" them to the protestant form of christianity de jour.
I have a couple of relatives by marriage who support these efforts with
contributions and trips to these countries to "help," and I have
listened to their tales and seen their newsletters. Well, I used
to...they stopped telling me about these conversion efforts after I told
them many times I thought the practice was disgusting on many levels.
It's weird, too, because several times it was obvious that Roman
Catholics were being converted to protestantism...apparently the simpie
evangelicals, many of them, try to promote the idea that the Catholics
are *not* christians.
To me, evangelical christians seem very insecure in their relgious
beliefs. Those who remain unconverted seem a threat to the born-agains..
Reminds me of the Borg Collective from the old Star Trek shows.
"Assimilate...resistance is futile..."
Well, screw that.
harry, I have a brother and sister-in-law *who have done the same in
Panama for years. sister-in-law is a dentist/LPN who has worked very
extensively with Guaymi indians for years. My brother builds clinics
and church's (Oops". I meant to say "COMPOUNDS!") their kids come up
here and finish high school then go back. My family members have no
insecurity in their faith. Of course *they're not really living in a
hostile part of the world. Harry, for those who feel threatened by
Christianity. I feel sorry for.
If people like like my family members don't do anything to help who
they do. Then who will? the government?
Gee, tim...i dunno. My dentist is gone in july and august (his partners
handle emergencies) every year. He goes to underserved asian countries
(he's korean) to fix the teeth of kids who have no way to pay for such
services. He sure as hell isn't serving up religion with his dentistry.
Sorry, tim, but I am no fan of evangelizing, *especially* among
unsophisticated native populations.
I am sure the Ngäbe appreciate the dental work, and they'd probably
appreciate it more without the efforts of evangelicals to sell them
jesus and in the process destroy their culture.
"Sorry, tim, but I am no fan of evangelizing, *especially* among
*unsophisticated native populations."
Thats transparently obious. Harry.
" I am sure the Ngäbe appreciate the dental work, and they'd probably
appreciate it more without the efforts of evangelicals to sell them
jesus and in the process destroy their culture."
Yeah, look at what they're culture has had to offer them.
They have the option of not receiving the free dental work or medical
care. Everything comes with strings attached. There is no free lunch.
They also have the option of taking advantage of the health care *with
no evangelicalism. no one forces anything on anyone.

You are a naive fellow if you think there isn't a debt incurred.

The great joe hill wrote a song about this:

* * *Long-haired preachers come out every night,
* * *Try to tell you what's wrong and what's right;
* * *But when asked how 'bout something to eat
* * *They will answer in voices so sweet

* * *You will eat, bye and bye,
* * *In that glorious land above the sky;
* * *Work and pray, live on hay,
* * *You'll get pie in the sky when you die

* * *And the Starvation Army they play,
* * *And they sing and they clap and they pray,
* * *Till they get all your coin on the drum,
* * *Then they tell you when you're on the bum

* * *Holy Rollers and Jumpers come out
* * *And they holler, they jump and they shout
* * *Give your money to Jesus, they say,
* * *He will cure all diseases today

* * *If you fight hard for children and wife-
* * *Try to get something good in this life-
* * *You're a sinner and bad man, they tell,
* * *When you die you will sure go to hell.

* * *Workingmen of all countries, unite
* * *Side by side we for freedom will fight
* * *When the world and its wealth we have gained
* * *To the grafters we'll sing this refrain

* * *You will eat, bye and bye,
* * *When you've learned how to cook and how to fry;
* * *Chop some wood, 'twill do you good
* * *Then you'll eat in the sweet bye and bye

The chorus is sung in a call and response pattern.

* * *You will eat [You will eat] bye and bye [bye and bye]
* * *In that glorious land above the sky [Way up high]
* * *Work and pray [Work and pray] live on hay [live on hay]
* * *You'll get pie in the sky when you die [That's a lie!]

Thus the final verse becomes

* * *You will eat [You will eat] bye and bye [bye and bye]
* * *When you've learned how to cook and how to fry [How to fry]
* * *Chop some wood [Chop some wood], 'twill do you good [do you good]
* * *Then you'll eat in the sweet bye and bye [That's no lie]

joe hill, for the culturally ignorant, was a labor organizer early in
the last century who was framed for murder by the bosses of the copper
mines where he was organizing workers. He was murdered by a state firing
squad.

OK, so ?

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:21:51 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Jun 23, 3:39*pm, jps wrote:


You are a naive fellow if you think there isn't a debt incurred.

I know my family and I know how their mission works. Tell you what.
Why don't you go to Panama and stay for a month and see for yourself.

I have.

Yes, I'm sure it does. Their mission works by creating a moral
dilemma for whomever is receiving the free medical attention.

This is the same way bin Laden works. He builds schools, provides
medical care and feeds people and in return they pledge allegiance to
his cause.

It's a very simple exchange that works very well.

bin Laden is a missionary.

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:20:41 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Jun 23, 3:38*pm, jps wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:43:04 -0400, BAR wrote:
Tim wrote:
On Jun 23, 5:47 am, HK wrote:
Tim wrote:
On Jun 23, 5:17 am, HK wrote:
That's not the point, tim. The fact remains that in many underdeveloped
countries, especially in central and south america, evangelical
christians use the "help" they offer impoverished native peoples as a
hook to "convert" them to the protestant form of christianity de jour.
I have a couple of relatives by marriage who support these efforts with
contributions and trips to these countries to "help," and I have
listened to their tales and seen their newsletters. Well, I used
to...they stopped telling me about these conversion efforts after I told
them many times I thought the practice was disgusting on many levels.
It's weird, too, because several times it was obvious that Roman
Catholics were being converted to protestantism...apparently the simpie
evangelicals, many of them, try to promote the idea that the Catholics
are *not* christians.
To me, evangelical christians seem very insecure in their relgious
beliefs. Those who remain unconverted seem a threat to the born-agains..
Reminds me of the Borg Collective from the old Star Trek shows.
"Assimilate...resistance is futile..."
Well, screw that.
harry, I have a brother and sister-in-law *who have done the same in
Panama for years. sister-in-law is a dentist/LPN who has worked very
extensively with Guaymi indians for years. My brother builds clinics
and church's (Oops". I meant to say "COMPOUNDS!") their kids come up
here and finish high school then go back. My family members have no
insecurity in their faith. Of course *they're not really living in a
hostile part of the world. Harry, for those who feel threatened by
Christianity. I feel sorry for.
If people like like my family members don't do anything to help who
they do. Then who will? the government?
Gee, tim...i dunno. My dentist is gone in july and august (his partners
handle emergencies) every year. He goes to underserved asian countries
(he's korean) to fix the teeth of kids who have no way to pay for such
services. He sure as hell isn't serving up religion with his dentistry.

Sorry, tim, but I am no fan of evangelizing, *especially* among
unsophisticated native populations.

I am sure the Ngäbe appreciate the dental work, and they'd probably
appreciate it more without the efforts of evangelicals to sell them
jesus and in the process destroy their culture.

"Sorry, tim, but I am no fan of evangelizing, *especially* among
*unsophisticated native populations."

Thats transparently obious. Harry.

" I am sure the Ngäbe appreciate the dental work, and they'd probably
appreciate it more without the efforts of evangelicals to sell them
jesus and in the process destroy their culture."

Yeah, look at what they're culture has had to offer them.

They have the option of not receiving the free dental work or medical
care. Everything comes with strings attached. There is no free lunch.

Dental work for pay comes at a set price, and it doesn't require a
life of indentured servitude, shame or guilt.

Snake oil salesmen peddle the same crap. *False hope.

To you? probably so.

Yesssssss.

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:18:23 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Jun 23, 1:29*pm, jps wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:10:29 -0400, Gene

wrote:
I have good reason.

More have died in the name of Jesus than any other "cause."

Hmmm *yeah. If that's what you wish to believe, then I suppose you
need to stay locked in your house and not ever venture outside, and
keep a 9mm close by. you never know when some christian will come
knocking at your door.
killed by Christians..... here's a short list:

"Listed are only events that solely occurred on command or
participation of church authorities or were committed in the name of
Christianity. (List incomplete)

Snipped...

Tim? *Where are you Tim? *Hello?

Thanks Gene.

Working from 7:30 AM to 5:15PM today

Well then, you'll have time to address Gene's post later or tomorrow?

More people have died in the name of Jesus than in any cause in
history.

Man cannot be trusted to interpret God. You included.

"jps" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:21:51 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Jun 23, 3:39 pm, jps wrote:


You are a naive fellow if you think there isn't a debt incurred.

I know my family and I know how their mission works. Tell you what.
Why don't you go to Panama and stay for a month and see for yourself.

I have.

Yes, I'm sure it does. Their mission works by creating a moral
dilemma for whomever is receiving the free medical attention.

This is the same way bin Laden works. He builds schools, provides
medical care and feeds people and in return they pledge allegiance to
his cause.



Gee .... So does Barack Obama.

Eisboch

On Jun 23, 5:50*pm, jps wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:21:51 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Jun 23, 3:39*pm, jps wrote:
You are a naive fellow if you think there isn't a debt incurred.

I know my family and I know how their mission works. Tell you what.
Why don't you go to Panama and stay for a month and see for yourself.

I have.

Yes, I'm sure it does. *Their mission works by creating a moral
dilemma for whomever is receiving the free medical attention.

This is the same way bin Laden works. *He builds schools, provides
medical care *and feeds people and in return they pledge allegiance to
his cause.

It's a very simple exchange that works very well.

bin Laden is a missionary.

You're welcome to feel that way if you wish.

On Jun 23, 5:54*pm, jps wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:18:23 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:



On Jun 23, 1:29*pm, jps wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:10:29 -0400, Gene

wrote:
I have good reason.

More have died in the name of Jesus than any other "cause."

Hmmm *yeah. If that's what you wish to believe, then I suppose you
need to stay locked in your house and not ever venture outside, and
keep a 9mm close by. you never know when some christian will come
knocking at your door.
killed by Christians..... here's a short list:

"Listed are only events that solely occurred on command or
participation of church authorities or were committed in the name of
Christianity. (List incomplete)

Snipped...

Tim? *Where are you Tim? *Hello?

Thanks Gene.

Working from 7:30 AM to 5:15PM *today

Well then, you'll have time to address Gene's post later or tomorrow?

More people have died in the name of Jesus than in any cause in
history.

Man cannot be trusted to interpret God. *You included.

Thank you. I don't demand your trust.

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:16:43 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:


I understand what you're saying Gene. But were these madmen truely
Christian? I dare say not. they wore the name, but their actions
proved differently.

The only man on earth who was truly "Christian" wasn't. He was a Jew.

He wanted to modernize the Temple and Judaism. He didn't intend nor
did he preach for a new Temple or religion. It was a bunch of men who
made this legacy.

Humans have a need to believe their lives have meaning, hence the
willingness to believe in the spiritual - beyond the grasp of mortals.

Bunch of hooey.

You've got one chance and there's nobody at the end who's going to
judge you other than those still alive.

Lean into it.

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:19:41 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Jun 23, 2:22*pm, jps wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 05:37:02 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:



On Jun 23, 6:53*am, wf3h wrote:
On Jun 22, 10:47*am, "JustWaitAFrekinMinute!"

wrote:
On Jun 22, 8:06*am, Tim wrote:

On Jun 22, 6:50*am, wf3h wrote:

IOW it's wrong about everything.

I very much disagree with you , but I won't argue about it.

I wonder why seemingly good people, and of course assholes like Harry
feel the need to push their anti-Christian bigotry on everyone
whenever they find a remote opening, or even make one up? Why must
they shove their "religion" down our throats all the time... * * Oh,
but we can't talk about ours, that would hurt their feelings and they
would want to take us to court snerk In other words, why are they so
hypocritical?

the s. baptists are anything but christian.

If you wish to believe so.

Oh so circumspect. *It doesn't pass the smell test.

To you? probably not. But then again, that is expected.

Is that what the good book says you should think?

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 18:54:21 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:21:51 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Jun 23, 3:39 pm, jps wrote:


You are a naive fellow if you think there isn't a debt incurred.

I know my family and I know how their mission works. Tell you what.
Why don't you go to Panama and stay for a month and see for yourself.

I have.

Yes, I'm sure it does. Their mission works by creating a moral
dilemma for whomever is receiving the free medical attention.

This is the same way bin Laden works. He builds schools, provides
medical care and feeds people and in return they pledge allegiance to
his cause.



Gee .... So does Barack Obama.

Eisboch

He's not a missionary Richard. He's an elected leader.

We pay part of our earnings to the government so they can provide
safety, services and infrastructure.

How can you possibly interpret that as Obama being a missionary?

Are you that blinded by partisanship? Wrong thread.