On Jun 22, 8:56*am, HK wrote:
wf3h wrote:
On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote:

That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation
you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical,
and religious life must have you shakin in your boots

except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a
moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a
proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever
since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro-
creationism church

IOW it's wrong about everything.

An absolutely backwards "bunch" of religious zealots, doing "the devil's
work" wherever it can. That floridajim believes they're moral and
ethical says even more about him than it does about the white southern
baptists.

What about the Black Southern Baptists, Harry? There's lots of them.

Tim wrote:
On Jun 22, 8:56 am, HK wrote:
wf3h wrote:
On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote:
That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation
you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical,
and religious life must have you shakin in your boots
except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a
moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a
proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever
since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro-
creationism church
IOW it's wrong about everything.
An absolutely backwards "bunch" of religious zealots, doing "the devil's
work" wherever it can. That floridajim believes they're moral and
ethical says even more about him than it does about the white southern
baptists.

What about the Black Southern Baptists, Harry? There's lots of them.


Different organization.

Tim wrote:
On Jun 22, 8:56 am, HK wrote:
wf3h wrote:
On Jun 22, 6:20 am, Jim24242 wrote:
That's good news for Harry Krause, isn't it. The fear and intimidation
you suffer at the prospect of being asked to consider a moral, ethical,
and religious life must have you shakin in your boots
except, of course, the s. baptists have never come close to living a
moral ethical and religious life. the church was founded as a
proslavery church in 1845 and has opposed freedom for anyone ever
since...in the name of god. it's also america's leading pro-
creationism church
IOW it's wrong about everything.
An absolutely backwards "bunch" of religious zealots, doing "the devil's
work" wherever it can. That floridajim believes they're moral and
ethical says even more about him than it does about the white southern
baptists.

What about the Black Southern Baptists, Harry? There's lots of them.

Harry's OK with black folks. He just doesn't like white folks very much.
Pretty strange huh?

On Jun 22, 6:05*am, HK wrote:
Southern Baptists look for cures to stagnation
'Great Commission Resurgence' » Leaders will present declaration at
annual meeting this week.

By Adelle M. Banks

Religion News Service

Salt Lake Tribune
02:56:55 PM MDT

Decades of painful conservative-moderate fights. Stagnant baptism rates.
Membership malaise. Surveying the state of the Southern Baptist
Convention, seminary president Danny Akin can sum it all up in six words:

"Business as usual is not working."

Seeking to turn things around for the nation's largest Protestant body,
Akin has teamed with SBC President Johnny Hunt to draft a "Great
Commission Resurgence" declaration that will be presented to the
Baptists' annual meeting June 23-24 in Louisville, Ky.

The goal is to find a new way forward after several high-profile
campaigns to boost the number of baptisms -- a key measure of vitality
and an article of faith for Baptists -- fell flat.

Hunt told one Baptist newspaper that the SBC is like a ship that is
"adrift" and needs to consider ridding itself of unnecessary "cargo."

For the Rev. Micah Fries, a 30-year-old pastor of a Southern Baptist
church in St. Joseph, Mo., such analogies are appropriate for a
denomination that has grown in size and bureaucracy in its more than 150
years of history.

"We need to lose some excessive baggage," he said, noting a worrisome
$30 million shortfall in an international missions offering that will
reduce the number of missionaries deployed oversees.

For years, political battles -- inside and outside the convention -- put
key Southern Baptist leaders in the spotlight. But now, as some of those
faces fade from view, a younger generation is taking a different focus.

"I think in many ways, the Southern Baptist Convention mirrors the
Republican Party in that they have cultivated such a narrow base," said
the Rev. Bill Leonard, dean of the Wake Forest University School of
Divinity in Winston-Salem, N.C.

"They have to keep defining themselves to say to a new generation,
'Here's what we delivered you from,' because this new generation doesn't
remember."

Those fights included whether to boycott the Walt Disney Co., forbidding
women pastors, telling wives to "submit graciously" to their husbands
and screening out would-be missionaries who pray in tongues, as well as
public-square battles over abortion and homosexuality.

Akin, the 52-year-old president of Southeastern Baptist Theological
Seminary in Wake Forest, N.C., says the annual fights over hot-button
theological or social issues aren't moving the next generation of Baptists.

"This is kind of the network of younger, enthusiastic Southern Baptists
who, to be honest with you, ... find the annual meeting itself a little
frustrating and a little boring," said Akin.

Akin hopes the declaration will help chart a new direction by combining
theology -- with a focus on sharing the gospel and belief in an
error-proof Bible -- with a top-to-bottom streamlining that puts special
emphasis on racial reconciliation.

The Baptist blogosphere is already abuzz with debate over where the
document could take the denomination, or if it could even work.

"It exposes two divides," said the Rev. Wade Burleson, pastor of
Emmanuel Baptist Church in Enid, Okla., who has used his blog to
question Southern Baptist policies in recent years. "It's an
ideological, not generational, divide and it is a
status-quo-versus-change divide."

Richard Land, president of the denomination's Ethics & Religious Liberty
Commission, said the statement reflects particular concern with baptism
rates -- now at their lowest since 1987 -- and a total membership that
dropped 0.2 percent in a church that for years prided itself on its
annual increases.

"I think it's a sense of some frustration that we have not seen more
growth in missions and evangelism, and [it's] an attempt to re-emphasize
that," he said.

Not everyone is embracing Hunt and Akin's plans. Former SBC President
Morris Chapman (who currently leads the denomination's Executive
Committee) has been outspoken in his opposition.

"Reallocating our funds will not solve any perceived problems," Chapman
wrote in a column in Baptist Press, the denomination's news service.
"But a genuine revival might!"

Some Baptist state conventions have questioned what the proposed
restructuring could mean on the local level, while others acknowledge
the need for change.

"It is with sadness I declare that many in our churches are spiritually
sick and in great need of a fresh movement of God both within the
leadership and the laity," said Milton A. Hollifield Jr., the executive
director-treasurer of the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina, at
a May board meeting. "May God help us look to him and to be different."

- - -

It's nice to see problems among the bigots.

You ARE a bigot.

"HK" wrote in message
...
Southern Baptists look for cures to stagnation
'Great Commission Resurgence' » Leaders will present declaration at annual
meeting this week.

By Adelle M. Banks

Religion News Service

Salt Lake Tribune
02:56:55 PM MDT


Decades of painful conservative-moderate fights. Stagnant baptism rates.
Membership malaise. Surveying the state of the Southern Baptist
Convention, seminary president Danny Akin can sum it all up in six words:

"Business as usual is not working."

Seeking to turn things around for the nation's largest Protestant body,
Akin has teamed with SBC President Johnny Hunt to draft a "Great
Commission Resurgence" declaration that will be presented to the Baptists'
annual meeting June 23-24 in Louisville, Ky.

The goal is to find a new way forward after several high-profile campaigns
to boost the number of baptisms -- a key measure of vitality and an
article of faith for Baptists -- fell flat.

Hunt told one Baptist newspaper that the SBC is like a ship that is
"adrift" and needs to consider ridding itself of unnecessary "cargo."

For the Rev. Micah Fries, a 30-year-old pastor of a Southern Baptist
church in St. Joseph, Mo., such analogies are appropriate for a
denomination that has grown in size and bureaucracy in its more than 150
years of history.

"We need to lose some excessive baggage," he said, noting a worrisome $30
million shortfall in an international missions offering that will reduce
the number of missionaries deployed oversees.

Reduce the number of missionaries? When I met a family of SB missionaries in
post war Croatia, my first thought was "just what these people (Croats)
need- another f-ing religion"
When I met SB missionaries in Al Hilla, Iraq in 2003, the first thing that
hit was that we'd end up finding them in the desert without thier heads.
Don't know if they were intact when they left, but going door to door and
telling Muslims they got it all wrong doesn't seem like something to put on
the 'ol life insurance form.

On Jun 22, 8:28*am, "mmc" wrote:
"HK" wrote in message

...



* Southern Baptists look for cures to stagnation
'Great Commission Resurgence' » Leaders will present declaration at annual
meeting this week.

By Adelle M. Banks

Religion News Service

Salt Lake Tribune
02:56:55 PM MDT

Decades of painful conservative-moderate fights. Stagnant baptism rates..
Membership malaise. Surveying the state of the Southern Baptist
Convention, seminary president Danny Akin can sum it all up in six words:

"Business as usual is not working."

Seeking to turn things around for the nation's largest Protestant body,
Akin has teamed with SBC President Johnny Hunt to draft a "Great
Commission Resurgence" declaration that will be presented to the Baptists'
annual meeting June 23-24 in Louisville, Ky.

The goal is to find a new way forward after several high-profile campaigns
to boost the number of baptisms -- a key measure of vitality and an
article of faith for Baptists -- fell flat.

Hunt told one Baptist newspaper that the SBC is like a ship that is
"adrift" and needs to consider ridding itself of unnecessary "cargo."

For the Rev. Micah Fries, a 30-year-old pastor of a Southern Baptist
church in St. Joseph, Mo., such analogies are appropriate for a
denomination that has grown in size and bureaucracy in its more than 150
years of history.

"We need to lose some excessive baggage," he said, noting a worrisome $30
million shortfall in an international missions offering that will reduce
the number of missionaries deployed oversees.

Reduce the number of missionaries? When I met a family of SB missionaries in
post war Croatia, my first thought was "just what these people (Croats)
need- another f-ing religion"
When I met SB missionaries in Al Hilla, Iraq in 2003, the first thing that
hit was that we'd end up finding them in the desert without thier heads.
Don't know if they were intact when they left, but going door to door and
telling Muslims they got it all wrong doesn't seem like something to put on
the 'ol life insurance form.

Mike, The missionaries don't go "door-to-door" to the muslims. Usually
the Muslims come to them. and the misionaries don't normally lose
their heads.


they get shot.

http://www.christianaction.org.za/ar...RY_DOCTORS.htm

oddly enough. the missionaries treated a young man about two weeks
earlier, and this is how he responded to the missionaries and their
clinic.

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:40:49 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Jun 22, 8:28*am, "mmc" wrote:
"HK" wrote in message

...



* Southern Baptists look for cures to stagnation
'Great Commission Resurgence' » Leaders will present declaration at annual
meeting this week.

By Adelle M. Banks

Religion News Service

Salt Lake Tribune
02:56:55 PM MDT

Decades of painful conservative-moderate fights. Stagnant baptism rates.
Membership malaise. Surveying the state of the Southern Baptist
Convention, seminary president Danny Akin can sum it all up in six words:

"Business as usual is not working."

Seeking to turn things around for the nation's largest Protestant body,
Akin has teamed with SBC President Johnny Hunt to draft a "Great
Commission Resurgence" declaration that will be presented to the Baptists'
annual meeting June 23-24 in Louisville, Ky.

The goal is to find a new way forward after several high-profile campaigns
to boost the number of baptisms -- a key measure of vitality and an
article of faith for Baptists -- fell flat.

Hunt told one Baptist newspaper that the SBC is like a ship that is
"adrift" and needs to consider ridding itself of unnecessary "cargo."

For the Rev. Micah Fries, a 30-year-old pastor of a Southern Baptist
church in St. Joseph, Mo., such analogies are appropriate for a
denomination that has grown in size and bureaucracy in its more than 150
years of history.

"We need to lose some excessive baggage," he said, noting a worrisome $30
million shortfall in an international missions offering that will reduce
the number of missionaries deployed oversees.

Reduce the number of missionaries? When I met a family of SB missionaries in
post war Croatia, my first thought was "just what these people (Croats)
need- another f-ing religion"
When I met SB missionaries in Al Hilla, Iraq in 2003, the first thing that
hit was that we'd end up finding them in the desert without thier heads.
Don't know if they were intact when they left, but going door to door and
telling Muslims they got it all wrong doesn't seem like something to put on
the 'ol life insurance form.

Mike, The missionaries don't go "door-to-door" to the muslims. Usually
the Muslims come to them. and the misionaries don't normally lose
their heads.


they get shot.

http://www.christianaction.org.za/ar...RY_DOCTORS.htm

oddly enough. the missionaries treated a young man about two weeks
earlier, and this is how he responded to the missionaries and their
clinic.

Yes, free food and medical attention do wonders to ingratiate
followers to a sect. bin Laden uses the same tactics. We'd have won
the war several years ago if we'd have taken over Afghanistan with
food, medicine and books.

Unfortunately, that's not the business of the US. We're in the arms
business.

On Jun 22, 6:56*pm, jps wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:40:49 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:





On Jun 22, 8:28*am, "mmc" wrote:
"HK" wrote in message

...

* Southern Baptists look for cures to stagnation
'Great Commission Resurgence' » Leaders will present declaration at annual
meeting this week.

By Adelle M. Banks

Religion News Service

Salt Lake Tribune
02:56:55 PM MDT

Decades of painful conservative-moderate fights. Stagnant baptism rates.
Membership malaise. Surveying the state of the Southern Baptist
Convention, seminary president Danny Akin can sum it all up in six words:

"Business as usual is not working."

Seeking to turn things around for the nation's largest Protestant body,
Akin has teamed with SBC President Johnny Hunt to draft a "Great
Commission Resurgence" declaration that will be presented to the Baptists'
annual meeting June 23-24 in Louisville, Ky.

The goal is to find a new way forward after several high-profile campaigns
to boost the number of baptisms -- a key measure of vitality and an
article of faith for Baptists -- fell flat.

Hunt told one Baptist newspaper that the SBC is like a ship that is
"adrift" and needs to consider ridding itself of unnecessary "cargo."

For the Rev. Micah Fries, a 30-year-old pastor of a Southern Baptist
church in St. Joseph, Mo., such analogies are appropriate for a
denomination that has grown in size and bureaucracy in its more than 150
years of history.

"We need to lose some excessive baggage," he said, noting a worrisome $30
million shortfall in an international missions offering that will reduce
the number of missionaries deployed oversees.

Reduce the number of missionaries? When I met a family of SB missionaries in
post war Croatia, my first thought was "just what these people (Croats)
need- another f-ing religion"
When I met SB missionaries in Al Hilla, Iraq in 2003, the first thing that
hit was that we'd end up finding them in the desert without thier heads.
Don't know if they were intact when they left, but going door to door and
telling Muslims they got it all wrong doesn't seem like something to put on
the 'ol life insurance form.

Mike, The missionaries don't go "door-to-door" to the muslims. Usually
the Muslims come to them. and the misionaries don't normally lose
their heads.

they get shot.

http://www.christianaction.org.za/ar...REE_MISSIONARY...

oddly enough. the missionaries treated a young man about two weeks
earlier, and this is how he responded to the missionaries and their
clinic.

Yes, free food and medical attention do wonders to ingratiate
followers to a sect. *bin Laden uses the same tactics. *We'd have won
the war several years ago if we'd have taken over Afghanistan with
food, medicine and books.

Unfortunately, that's not the business of the US. *We're in the arms
business.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, that post pretty much proves you are not paying attention, or
making it up as you go along. Both of which are about equally
presumable in your case...

Tim wrote:
On Jun 22, 8:28 am, "mmc" wrote:
"HK" wrote in message

...



Southern Baptists look for cures to stagnation
'Great Commission Resurgence' » Leaders will present declaration at annual
meeting this week.
By Adelle M. Banks
Religion News Service
Salt Lake Tribune
02:56:55 PM MDT
Decades of painful conservative-moderate fights. Stagnant baptism rates.
Membership malaise. Surveying the state of the Southern Baptist
Convention, seminary president Danny Akin can sum it all up in six words:
"Business as usual is not working."
Seeking to turn things around for the nation's largest Protestant body,
Akin has teamed with SBC President Johnny Hunt to draft a "Great
Commission Resurgence" declaration that will be presented to the Baptists'
annual meeting June 23-24 in Louisville, Ky.
The goal is to find a new way forward after several high-profile campaigns
to boost the number of baptisms -- a key measure of vitality and an
article of faith for Baptists -- fell flat.
Hunt told one Baptist newspaper that the SBC is like a ship that is
"adrift" and needs to consider ridding itself of unnecessary "cargo."
For the Rev. Micah Fries, a 30-year-old pastor of a Southern Baptist
church in St. Joseph, Mo., such analogies are appropriate for a
denomination that has grown in size and bureaucracy in its more than 150
years of history.
"We need to lose some excessive baggage," he said, noting a worrisome $30
million shortfall in an international missions offering that will reduce
the number of missionaries deployed oversees.
Reduce the number of missionaries? When I met a family of SB missionaries in
post war Croatia, my first thought was "just what these people (Croats)
need- another f-ing religion"
When I met SB missionaries in Al Hilla, Iraq in 2003, the first thing that
hit was that we'd end up finding them in the desert without thier heads.
Don't know if they were intact when they left, but going door to door and
telling Muslims they got it all wrong doesn't seem like something to put on
the 'ol life insurance form.

Mike, The missionaries don't go "door-to-door" to the muslims. Usually
the Muslims come to them. and the misionaries don't normally lose
their heads.


they get shot.

http://www.christianaction.org.za/ar...RY_DOCTORS.htm

oddly enough. the missionaries treated a young man about two weeks
earlier, and this is how he responded to the missionaries and their
clinic.


And what is the purpose of a Southern Baptist "missionary" hospital?

On Jun 22, 5:40*pm, Tim wrote:
On Jun 22, 8:28*am, "mmc" wrote:



"HK" wrote in message

...

* Southern Baptists look for cures to stagnation
'Great Commission Resurgence' » Leaders will present declaration at annual
meeting this week.

By Adelle M. Banks

Religion News Service

Salt Lake Tribune
02:56:55 PM MDT

Decades of painful conservative-moderate fights. Stagnant baptism rates.
Membership malaise. Surveying the state of the Southern Baptist
Convention, seminary president Danny Akin can sum it all up in six words:

"Business as usual is not working."

Seeking to turn things around for the nation's largest Protestant body,
Akin has teamed with SBC President Johnny Hunt to draft a "Great
Commission Resurgence" declaration that will be presented to the Baptists'
annual meeting June 23-24 in Louisville, Ky.

The goal is to find a new way forward after several high-profile campaigns
to boost the number of baptisms -- a key measure of vitality and an
article of faith for Baptists -- fell flat.

Hunt told one Baptist newspaper that the SBC is like a ship that is
"adrift" and needs to consider ridding itself of unnecessary "cargo."

For the Rev. Micah Fries, a 30-year-old pastor of a Southern Baptist
church in St. Joseph, Mo., such analogies are appropriate for a
denomination that has grown in size and bureaucracy in its more than 150
years of history.

"We need to lose some excessive baggage," he said, noting a worrisome $30
million shortfall in an international missions offering that will reduce
the number of missionaries deployed oversees.

Reduce the number of missionaries? When I met a family of SB missionaries in
post war Croatia, my first thought was "just what these people (Croats)
need- another f-ing religion"
When I met SB missionaries in Al Hilla, Iraq in 2003, the first thing that
hit was that we'd end up finding them in the desert without thier heads..
Don't know if they were intact when they left, but going door to door and
telling Muslims they got it all wrong doesn't seem like something to put on
the 'ol life insurance form.

Mike, The missionaries don't go "door-to-door" to the muslims. Usually
the Muslims come to them. and the misionaries don't normally lose
their heads.

they get shot.

http://www.christianaction.org.za/ar...REE_MISSIONARY...

oddly enough. the missionaries treated a young man about two weeks
earlier, and this is how he responded to the missionaries and their
clinic.

But then again. they don't always get shot. sometimes they and their
familie's get burnt alive.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Staines