On *most 'true' cutters (not double headed sloops where the mast is
further forward) the combined CE is properly located above the
CLR ..... * But then again the CE is a static (necessary) concept and
can be **dynamically** changed by how one 'shapes' the sails (sum or
all vectors). * All depends on the design and how it performs when
heeled etc.

Errr... shouldn't CE always be located equal to the CLR via sail trim? (I
mean unless you're doing something else intentionally?)

Even with a non-true cutter, you would want to balance CE/CLR as best as
possible. Seems like you'd have more options to do that either with a true
or non-true cutter and perhaps a ketch/yawl. I know the downsides of
ketch/yawl (extra mast weight, for example), but what are the downsides of
cutters? I know someone who is intent on getting a (true, I suppose) cutter.
Not sure where she's going to take her (offshore vs. inshore vs. both).


Roger can elaborate but most sailboats actually are set up with some
LEE HELM vs. the static CE/CLR position .... as the curvature of the
sides of the hull and 'entry angle of the bow' (fine bow versus full/
power bow shape), etc. will additionally create the rest of the
'dynamic balance' especially when the boat is heeled and moving
forward at speed.

In any 'balance', I usually always initially shape the sails to obtain
a 'dead fish' neutral helm, then back off (on halyard/cunningham,
etc.) so that I get the absolute barest of 'weather helm'. This
allows the rudder to not drag through the water (2-3 degress of
rudder), the rudder helping to support the side loads (slip) and share
some of the work of the keel ..... and wind up with the fastest
possible speed and the highest possible 'lift to windward' out of the
keel - using the keel (NACA-010 etc.) as a lifting foil... all for
racing or efficient long distance sailing/cruising.

I'd like to hear about that. It was my (perhaps wrong) understanding that
most sailboats have slight weather helm with the sails up.

This is also odd because the technique of lying ahull, according to what you
describe about lee helm, would mean that a boat in such a position would be
stern to the weather. I don't think that's the case, but I've never lay
ahull in a storm.

"RichH" wrote in message
...

On most 'true' cutters (not double headed sloops where the mast is
further forward) the combined CE is properly located above the
CLR ..... But then again the CE is a static (necessary) concept and
can be **dynamically** changed by how one 'shapes' the sails (sum or
all vectors). All depends on the design and how it performs when
heeled etc.

Errr... shouldn't CE always be located equal to the CLR via sail trim? (I
mean unless you're doing something else intentionally?)

Even with a non-true cutter, you would want to balance CE/CLR as best as
possible. Seems like you'd have more options to do that either with a true
or non-true cutter and perhaps a ketch/yawl. I know the downsides of
ketch/yawl (extra mast weight, for example), but what are the downsides of
cutters? I know someone who is intent on getting a (true, I suppose)
cutter.
Not sure where she's going to take her (offshore vs. inshore vs. both).


Roger can elaborate but most sailboats actually are set up with some
LEE HELM vs. the static CE/CLR position .... as the curvature of the
sides of the hull and 'entry angle of the bow' (fine bow versus full/
power bow shape), etc. will additionally create the rest of the
'dynamic balance' especially when the boat is heeled and moving
forward at speed.

In any 'balance', I usually always initially shape the sails to obtain
a 'dead fish' neutral helm, then back off (on halyard/cunningham,
etc.) so that I get the absolute barest of 'weather helm'. This
allows the rudder to not drag through the water (2-3 degress of
rudder), the rudder helping to support the side loads (slip) and share
some of the work of the keel ..... and wind up with the fastest
possible speed and the highest possible 'lift to windward' out of the
keel - using the keel (NACA-010 etc.) as a lifting foil... all for
racing or efficient long distance sailing/cruising.



--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:32:55 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

I'd like to hear about that. It was my (perhaps wrong) understanding that
most sailboats have slight weather helm with the sails up.


decrease the mast rake, and you can decrease weather helm.

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:32:55 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

I'd like to hear about that. It was my (perhaps wrong) understanding that
most sailboats have slight weather helm with the sails up.


decrease the mast rake, and you can decrease weather helm.




Yes, but I think he was talking about hull shape and bow shape.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com