RichH brought forth on stone tablets:
This somewhat depends on halyard geometry. You see some setups where the
halyard leads at an angle from the foil. This is good for minimizing
halyard wraps but pulls the end of the foil against the stay. ........

*******Not talking about lead angles of the top swivel to halyard
sheeve.... but the deflection of the torlon bealls under extreme
compressive load from extreme halyard tension; hence, the tendency to
begin to jam or add a lot of friction. My recent Harken starts to jam
when at extreme halyard loads. But then again 'kroozers' have no
idea that it takes halyard strain to 'shape' a sail so its probably a
non-issue for those who simply 'just raise' a sail.


I release the tension on my new sail

********Damn good idea as 'creep' (permanent elastic deformation) is
what eventually 'kills' the shape of a sail.


I had luff foam

put in which I'm told has gone out of style but does seem to do a good job
of increasing the amount that can be rolled up. I will probably switch to
the working jib if knowingly facing a long beat in 25 knot plus conditions
but I wouldn't make the switch just for traveling. With the third reef I
had put in the main and a touch of power, I should be able to handle
anything with the 135% that is likely to come up unexpectedly.

******* The newer modern cutting programs (with "S" curve luff hollow
profiles) have mostly obsoleted the need for foam luffs ... although
on a BIG sail you still sometimes need a wee bit of foam luff to
'help' the partly furled shape - still 30% reduction is about as good
as it gets; and, that assumes that one knows how to set the correct
backstay/headstay tension to match the actual 'luff hollow' that is
cut into the headsail when its fully wind-loaded



BTW I had a dock neighbor very interested in my fuel system yesterday. He
takes fishing parties out so is one of the few people still using much fuel.
He said that so few people are buying fuel that lots of people are getting
poor fuel because the long hoses are sitting out in the sun for much longer
periods. The fuel polisher in Portland evidently is no longer in business
this year.

Yup, the higher hose temps are good breeding grounds for those fungals
that thrive in #2. Those 'filters' on the delivery hoses do nothing
to stop the 'spores' and 'buds' of the fungals/bacteria. The filters
there are mostly for 'rocks, sticks and feathers'. If possible, I
only buy fuel from a marina as the very last resort; Id rather 'jug
it' from a truck stop as the chances of fresh uncontaminated fuel is
much much less. :-)


It's also almost universally cheaper. Here in Seattle, I am saving more
than $1/gallon by jugging it.

bob
s/v Eolian
Seattle

"RichH" wrote

If possible, I only buy fuel from a marina as the very last resort; Id
rather 'jug
it' from a truck stop as the chances of fresh uncontaminated fuel is much
much less. :-)

That's what I'm doing. I've got enough on board to motor for 75% of my
planned route so I shouldn't need to re-fuel this cruise.

--
Roger Long

Doesn't that give you a fairly unbalanced helm? That's a lot of CE forward.

Not on a cutter rig (mast at ~40-50% LOA) where the combined CE is
usually in front of the mast.

On 2008-08-11 13:22:54 -0400, lid (Jonathan Ganz) said:

In article ,
Dave wrote:

That's consistent with what I've experienced. I generally end up taking
a second reef in the main before rolling any of the 150 in.

Doesn't that give you a fairly unbalanced helm? That's a lot of CE forward.

Typically, it improves the boat's balance and unloads the helm somewhat.

If a particular boat picks up lee helm, the rules are different of course.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

In article ,
Dave wrote:
On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 12:22:54 -0500, lid (Jonathan Ganz)
said:

That's consistent with what I've experienced. I generally end up taking a
second reef in the main before rolling any of the 150 in.

Doesn't that give you a fairly unbalanced helm? That's a lot of CE forward.

Not really. With an outboard rudder, the boat has a bit of weather helm when
seriously heeled. Reefing the main gets it back on its feet with a fairly
balanced helm.

I've never sailed a boat this size with an outboard rudder.

Is that what's doing it (or preventing it)? I would think that most boats
when seriously heeled have weather helm.

I was out today in 20 kts with 25 gusts. My boat is fairly well balanced and
takes minimal effort. It's a masthead rig. We sailed with a small working jib
and one reef in the main. She would heel, give some slight weather helm, start
to round up, then correct and get back in the groove without helm intervention
(or at least not much.. two finger control).

In article ,
RichH wrote:
Doesn't that give you a fairly unbalanced helm? That's a lot of CE forward.

Not on a cutter rig (mast at ~40-50% LOA) where the combined CE is
usually in front of the mast.

With a lot of CE forward, it seems to make sense that one would have lee helm.
This in and of itself seems unbalanced to me. I'd much rather have a bit of
weather helm vs. lee helm.

In article 2008081121315716807-jerelull@maccom,
Jere Lull wrote:
On 2008-08-11 13:22:54 -0400, lid (Jonathan Ganz) said:

In article ,
Dave wrote:

That's consistent with what I've experienced. I generally end up taking
a second reef in the main before rolling any of the 150 in.

Doesn't that give you a fairly unbalanced helm? That's a lot of CE forward.

Typically, it improves the boat's balance and unloads the helm somewhat.

If a particular boat picks up lee helm, the rules are different of course.

It sure wouldn't on my boat, especially in 20+ air. I typically sail with a single
reef in the main and a full masthead (working) jib (it has a high foot).

On 2008-08-12 01:13:00 -0400, lid (Jonathan Ganz) said:

I was out today in 20 kts with 25 gusts. My boat is fairly well balanced and
takes minimal effort. It's a masthead rig. We sailed with a small working jib
and one reef in the main. She would heel, give some slight weather helm, start
to round up, then correct and get back in the groove without helm intervention
(or at least not much.. two finger control).

Sounds like you had it right.

I have to tuck in the second reef and flatten the jib hard in those
conditions, as we're a light-air boat with significant weather helm if
we heel too much.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On 2008-08-12 01:14:53 -0400, lid (Jonathan Ganz) said:

In article ,
RichH wrote:
Doesn't that give you a fairly unbalanced helm? That's a lot of CE forward.

Not on a cutter rig (mast at ~40-50% LOA) where the combined CE is
usually in front of the mast.

With a lot of CE forward, it seems to make sense that one would have lee helm.
This in and of itself seems unbalanced to me. I'd much rather have a bit of
weather helm vs. lee helm.

As I recall, cutter rigs place the the mast further aft.

What's determines "helm" is the balance among the CEs of the sails,
keel, and hull.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

With a lot of CE forward, it seems to make sense that one would have lee helm.
This in and of itself seems unbalanced to me. I'd much rather have a bit of
weather helm vs. lee helm.

On most 'true' cutters (not double headed sloops where the mast is
further forward) the combined CE is properly located above the
CLR ..... But then again the CE is a static (necessary) concept and
can be **dynamically** changed by how one 'shapes' the sails (sum or
all vectors). All depends on the design and how it performs when
heeled etc.